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You just get to reroll 1's on misses right? Not 1's on armor pen?

You re-roll 1's on to hit and to wound, not to pen.

Correct.
If your unit really hates vehicles it's a different special rule... tank hunter.

-Matt

I'm not even sure anymore. I think one could try and argue it either way.

Vehicles taking invul saves? Invuls can only be taken to wounds. RAW, but that's not how it's played. With this we have equated wounds~pens/glances

Why can't reroll to wound be equated to reroll to pen?

It's been done with templates that are twinlinked now.

We can't equate wounds to pen/glance rolls as there is no permission to do so.

Twin linked is to do with hitting in general, it improves your ability to hit things but since templates hit automatically they improved your effectiveness to inflict damage.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
We can't equate wounds to pen/glance rolls as there is no permission to do so.

Twin linked is to do with hitting in general, it improves your ability to hit things but since templates hit automatically they improved your effectiveness to inflict damage.

Twin linked for flamers is to do with pens/glances.

There's no permission to equate wounds to pens/glances and yet we do so don't we?
Otherwise DE/SoB stuff got a bit worse.

I'm sorry but the rules did make an exception for Bjorn. As to the sisters... GW don't care. At least not until they can get some plastic sisters kits to sell. The DE looks like specific permission to have a save but not what you can make it against.

Even if the DE have RAW permission to make the invulnerable saves like Bjorn THIS does not equate wounds with pen rolls.

Twin linked gave them a re-roll in a VERY SPECIFIC CASE, this is cause every other weapon with twin linked had a buff that applied to every target that it was fired at so they gave flamers the ability to re-roll the dice for wounds and for penetration so that flamers that are twin linked could do improved damage to both types of models. This doesn't mean that the pen roll is a to wound roll. Re-rolls to wound are still just re-rolls to wound, nothing more and nothing less. Benefits when it comes to killing vehicles are different rules such as armour bane or tank hunter.

I don't play many dark eldar so I don't ever have to play it in the HIWPI manner you describe. All the saves that vehicles get in the brb are cover saves, same for tau, IG, etc etc. I haven't got a copy of the sisters codex to check what they say but maybe email gw and see if the next faq batch will cover that.

I agree - RAW they're separate.

RAI is a little more fuzzy... It's obvious that vehicles should be able to take invul saves against pens/glances, and that Hive Guard should ignore cover against all targets (not just non-vehicles) that meet the requirement...

Essentially it comes down to - RAI sometimes wounds are equivalent to pens/glances, sometimes they're not.

Yes, RAI vehicles can take Invulns.

However wounds are still =/= pen rolls no matter how you try to make it so.

Doing that messes lots of things up, like things with Shred or Fleshbane.


If by this logic, rolling to wound = rolling to pen, then Fleshbane would always pen on a 2+

So you see there is a very good reason for keeping the 2 things not equal to each other.

Or at the very least they are only equal to each other for the purpose of rolling Invulnerable and Cover saves.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Or at the very least they are only equal to each other for the purpose of rolling Invulnerable and Cover saves.

Or more literally, the removal of a hull point.
They are rather equivalent.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, RAI vehicles can take Invulns.

However wounds are still =/= pen rolls no matter how you try to make it so.

Doing that messes lots of things up, like things with Shred or Fleshbane.


If by this logic, rolling to wound = rolling to pen, then Fleshbane would always pen on a 2+

Man, if only Fleshbane did not specifically state that it has no effect on vehicles. Then we could argue this (and armourbane) all day long...