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Little poll like thread

DO YOU


Do you varnish every thing gameable figures and and display (only) models as well?
asking since, in my painting process I work with different level of Shine all that work will be lost as soon as varnish rules the day.

I varnish everything first with glosssy since protects better, and then with matte to kill the glossyness.

I only paint models for gaming. And yup, I varnish everybody.

Q:2

Spray or brush... or bit of both?

Matt spray overall. Because it is easier and faster.

I add touches of glossy varnish with a brush afterwards when necessary, like for blood, monsters mouths, sometimes gems and so on.

I've had bad experiences with spray varnish, so I use brush-on.

i use gloss vanish for gems and lenses and what have you. But as a general thing no i don't vanish. Once i've finished a model i don't really handle it that much. So i really have no need to vanish (yet).

 Dark wrote:
I varnish everything first with glosssy since protects better, and then with matte to kill the glossyness.

this statement contains false information... im afraid matte varnish is just as strong as gloss varnish...
having 2 coats never hurts though!

i usually have several layers of varnish in my paintjobs... i always have a gloss varnish to make my oil washes flow better! and i always finish with a matte varnish

 DijnsK wrote:
im afraid matte varnish is just as strong as gloss varnish...

I dunno. My gloss varnish says 'Ard Coat on it

 DijnsK wrote:

 Dark wrote:
I varnish everything first with glosssy since protects better, and then with matte to kill the glossyness.

this statement contains false information... im afraid matte varnish is just as strong as gloss varnish...
having 2 coats never hurts though!

i usually have several layers of varnish in my paintjobs... i always have a gloss varnish to make my oil washes flow better! and i always finish with a matte varnish

This is correct. It's been shown many times on tests linked in this forum that the varnishes all protect similarly.

However, I have a technique which uses both to great effect. I brush the whole thing in gloss and let it dry. This lets me look for matte spots to know where I missed. Then I do it in matte, looking for shiny spots after drying to know where I missed.

So I also use both, not because gloss is better, but because it means I never miss a spot.

As far as sprays go, I have had awful experiences with purity seal, but vallejo makes a spray matte finish that's pretty hard to screw up. Your FLGS can probably special order it.

For gaming minis, everything gets the two-varnish treatment. I do it to save money, though, since I've found that almost any old gloss coat will do the job, but insist on the more expensive Testors Dullcote as the final layer.

For display minis, I mostly varnish as a means of controlling the finish. If it's irregular, due to the various paints/inks/washes used, I'll give it a dusting of matte varnish to even out the finish.

In either case, details that I want glossy get a thin coat of Vallejo's gloss applied by brush as a final step.

I don't want to thread jack here but,can mini's still be stripped after glossing?

 shingouki wrote:
I don't want to thread jack here but,can mini's still be stripped after glossing?

Yes - though often glossed miniatures will be more resistant to strippers like Simple Green and other "friendly" paint strippers since it provides a more complete cover which prevents the stripper from getting under the edges and lifting the paint off.

Regarding the general question of the thread though - I varnish everything. Sometimes several times. Sometimes several times with several different types of finishes. Most of the time.

After I do a paint job, and before I do the final shading and highlights...I will go ahead and give the whole miniature a coat of gloss varnish. Normally an acrylic applied with an airbrush. This is used to provide a flat finish to apply decals and what not over. Once the the decals are in place - I apply another gloss coat to secure the decals and protect them from various finishes like oil based washes and alcohol based inks. After the shading and weathering is done - I give things another coat of gloss to seal the weathering and shading in place. Again - airbrushed. Once that is done, I may end up using a matte finish to dull the shine on the whole miniature...applied with an airbrush. I may end up just hitting spots with matte varnish for things which are mostly shiney - like Grey Knights or certain slimy aliens. Some parts should be only a little glossy so they get some satin varnish. Other things should be really shiny in small spots (like drool dripping in mouths). On those I go back and paint a gloss on after the matte spray.

One thing which gets people into a bit of trouble with gloss coats is that due to the scale - if you just spray gloss across the entire figure it can look like someone just slimed it. In order to break up the reflection, I use a tungsten micropick to scratch along the various details on the surface. This breaks up the reflection of the light into distinct segments of light.

I give my minis 2 coats of Vallejo brush on matte varnish.

Thanks for the answers
Shingouki you can any day... will just make them better

 Flinty wrote:
I've had bad experiences with spray varnish, so I use brush-on.

Same. I brush on the varnish.

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 DijnsK wrote:

 Dark wrote:
I varnish everything first with glosssy since protects better, and then with matte to kill the glossyness.

this statement contains false information... im afraid matte varnish is just as strong as gloss varnish...
having 2 coats never hurts though!

This is correct. It's been shown many times on tests linked in this forum that the varnishes all protect similarly.

Missed this the first time through...

The reality is that gloss is a stronger finish than matte. The tests done here and those linked to, if they show otherwise, are faulty (either not comparing the same base or just not being effective tests to begin with).

The less stuff which is in the finish - the stronger it will be. It is a question of how well the binder chemicals interlink when they cure. Materials like pigments and matting agents tend to weaken the bond between the binder molecules. This has been demonstrated in thousands of labs for well over a hundred years by companies who specialize in providing finishes. You can find the pertinent information from pretty much any paint company, trade magazines like STIR as well as the pertinent organizations like the Plastics Council.

Now, how much stronger the gloss is versus the matte will depend on a number of different factors including the thickness of layers, type of paint used, type and size of matting agent, whether or not the finishes have fully cured. Apples to apples though - the glossy apple will be stronger. Both may well be strong enough for careful and casual miniature use. Some players are harsh with their toys though, and the added benefit of a couple of coats of gloss before a coat of matte can be enough to keep the paint from chipping off.

To varnish or not to varnish what a silly question

I use this amazing water-based matte-varnish I got from a generic arts & craft store. Great stuff.

I put in a drop on a pallet, and I spread a very thin coat by brush on up to 5 minis. The have a layer of protection, and they don't look overly 'bling' and tacky.

Have a look at my first 2 sets of minis!

This was mistakenly glossy varnished!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488678.page

This was with the matter varnish I spoke of earlier!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/490433.page

 Commissar41.0 wrote:
To varnish or not to varnish what a silly question

Agreed.

I went to the hardware store and grabbed a small can of Clear Gloss Acrylic Polyurethane for my first coat, which gets brushed on. Then I tone down the super shiny with Krylon Matte finish from a spray can.

If, for some odd reason (Humidity, temperature, or any other common issue here in Northeast USA) I can't use my Krylon spray, I've also got a can from the hardware store of clear satin polyurethane that I can brush on. It's not matte, but it's also definitely not gloss either xD

2 coats of varnish for me!

Everything. Plastics don't need it as much, but it's always worth it.

I actually don't varnish most my models except to control the finish. Matte varnish tends to wash out the model a bit, and a spray varnish can often give a rough texture, so sometimes if that's what I want, I'll matte varnish them. Gloss varnish obviously makes things glossy and smooth, so unless I want something glossy I don't use it.

My Tyranids I use a glossy ink for the fleshy bits, then regular matte paint for highlighting, if I were to varnish I'd have to go back over all the areas I want glossy by hand. Not worth the effort, so I just leave them unvarnished.

That said I am very careful with my miniatures and don't game with them frequently (mainly because I paint too slow to get an army together and I don't like gaming with unpainted models), so the protection from varnish is secondary to how it actually affects the finish of the model.

What companies are you guys getting your varnish from? I just got back into painting and I don't know where to start (also I don't want to do the trial and error thing as my first model is pretty baller). I definitely want to varnish because for some reason I have already found some chipping (seriously no idea how it happened-can cold prompt paint to fall off?).

Damnosus wrote:
I definitely want to varnish because for some reason I have already found some chipping (seriously no idea how it happened-can cold prompt paint to fall off?).

Yes. Paint, especially on metal figures, can actually fall off when models get too cold. The metal expands and contracts at different rates from the paint because of heat (or lack of it). A good primer coat will generally help to keep that from happening as readily...though a varnish will help as well. Even though the paint delaminates from the figure...it remains one solid skin and doesn't chip off.

As far as where to get it from...really depends on what you are after. A lot of people like the Vallejo brush on sealers. Testor's Dullcote is often considered to be the best matte finish available. Future Floor polish is a very popular (and readily available) gloss varnish that is hard enough to walk on. Some get theirs from an art supplier like Golden or Liquitex. Hardware store versions of varnishes are acceptable as well - and you can get very durable polyurethanes that are harder to find in hobby paints.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

Damnosus wrote:
I definitely want to varnish because for some reason I have already found some chipping (seriously no idea how it happened-can cold prompt paint to fall off?).

Yes. Paint, especially on metal figures, can actually fall off when models get too cold. The metal expands and contracts at different rates from the paint because of heat (or lack of it). A good primer coat will generally help to keep that from happening as readily...though a varnish will help as well. Even though the paint delaminates from the figure...it remains one solid skin and doesn't chip off.

As far as where to get it from...really depends on what you are after. A lot of people like the Vallejo brush on sealers. Testor's Dullcote is often considered to be the best matte finish available. Future Floor polish is a very popular (and readily available) gloss varnish that is hard enough to walk on. Some get theirs from an art supplier like Golden or Liquitex. Hardware store versions of varnishes are acceptable as well - and you can get very durable polyurethanes that are harder to find in hobby paints.

Surprisingly they are all plastic (and I used citadel primer on it). I have been having some serious issues though in general (due to temperature the plastic glue kept failing). I think I will look into testor's dullcote. Should I just put on two coats or should I get another varnish to go with it?

I honestly just use a very very light coat of matte... water-based matte varnishes are better I think.

However, I'm from a humid place, without much extremity in weather differences, so as long as I keep them out of the open sun, they'll be fine. I'm not sure how they hold up against extreme cold though...

A quick question:

Is it possible to mix gloss and mat varnish to get an in between'er?

You can - or you can simply select a satin, semi-gloss or other finish. Varnishes come in a lot of different sheens - from dead flat finishes all the way up to ultra glosses which are designed to look wet.

If you are considering mixing though - you need to make sure that the finishes are compatible. Varnishes come in a whole lot of different flavors in terms of what the actual resin used in them is - and most are not compatible with each other. Even within the acrylics, you have water, alcohol, and mineral spirit based acrylics....none of which play well with each other when you attempt to mix them.

I've only bothered varnishing metal models; they chip at the drop of a hat.

Plastics, I've found, are virtually immune to chipping or damage, and since I prefer the unvarnished finish, I tend to put up with the once-every-couple of months individual spot or speck I might have to dab some black or grey on.

Now, for my mate with a penchant for throwing Sisters at people, varnish becomes much more important.

Quick Q myself...

Do matt varnishes reactivate paint? The last few models that I have sprayed with matte after gloss varnishing has left paint on my fingers!

I had blue on my fingers after spraying my ralgard while holding the blue hull...

For a mantic skeleton, I had black on my fingers from holding the base...

I realize I should be setting it on something and spraying it, not holding it, but this is still a little disconcerting.