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I used my "new" vulture punisher for a couple of games today and I think that it is an awesome vehicle. I say new, it is really a proxy until the one I ordered arrives.

The ability to use vector dancer to get anywhere you need to be is awesome. I used it to get around the side of ruins and unload punishers into a grey knight squad, wiping them off an objective. It is also a very good sniper, able to maneuver so that whichever model you want to die is the closest. I actually find it more useful than a vendetta, as the vendetta has a harder time finding targets and can end up in a position where it needs to disengage.

Anyway, I think that all of my lists are going to include the punisher, for the foreseeable future at least. I really want to get behind a vendetta and blow it out of the sky. Is anyone else a fan of the vulture?

Not to mention that it looks absolutely gorgeous as well

15 shots a turn easily delivered? YES PLEASE. Now all you need to do is ally Space Wolves and get some Perfect Timing power from Divination on it

 felixander wrote:
15 shots a turn easily delivered?

19-20 you mean. Strafing run is awesome. And don't forget that it's +1 BS and pinning.

Vulture kicks! If you only can do one FW kit for IG, this should be it!

"Hurr, FW is stoopid guys. OP and not legal."

But really, I love my Punisher Vulture; one of the few units that is always consistent for me (just by way of rolling so many dice that it is much more average in its rolls.)

Add me to that fan club, big fan.

I have a Vulture Punisher kit waiting for me to go back to England to build it. I love the idea of it, however I've never actually used one.

 Still Standing wrote:
I have a Vulture Punisher kit waiting for me to go back to England to build it. I love the idea of it, however I've never actually used one.

You'll need more dice.

I would like one....or 3. haha
but then i'd also like to run a vendetta with punishers as well hahaha

I've always wanted one, wether it's usefull or not, nothing looks quite as awesome as a gunship with twin gatling cannons . I"m hoping the Puppet Wars flyer will be reasonably priced so I'll be able to afford one or two of those as a Vulture counts as.

My most regular opponent tends to play greentide orks, so I love the vulture, oddly, so does he, of all people I'd expect him to break out with 'no it's FW it's overpowered, blah blah blah' - all he does is just find new ways to beat it.

Isnt the Vulture a FW model? If so, can it be used in regular 6th edition play and tournys? And if so, what are the stats because I think I want to convert a Valk to one.

FW can be used in regular 40k games and regional GW tournaments. Not sure about the big independent tournaments, never been to one.

 Peregrine wrote:
...and pinning.

Thanks Peregrine, I didn't know that. I guess that I should have read the rule more carefully.

 danpieri wrote:
Isnt the Vulture a FW model? If so, can it be used in regular 6th edition play and tournys?

There is a lot of argument over this point. Best advice is to ask the people you want to play. I don't really want this thread to be derailed by four pages of FW legality discussion.

 danpieri wrote:
Isnt the Vulture a FW model? If so, can it be used in regular 6th edition play and tournys? And if so, what are the stats because I think I want to convert a Valk to one.

The latest rules are in (IIRC) Imperial Armour: Aeronautica. As has been said, there are differences in opinion on whether FW units are OK or not; a quick search should find you a thread to explain.

One of the Top 3 FW units in an army that already has the best flier (vendetta). Not only is it good with 20 shots BS4 TL S5 pinning, but it has VECTOR DANCER. I mean, are you kidding me? The DE fliers dont even have that. With limited access to AA in most armies, this thing is flat out broken. Vendettas always have the problem of not being able to turn enough and being unable to deal with hordes. This thing deals with hordes and gets rear armor on vehicles all day long.

This unit gives credence to the "FW OP" complaints.

 Peregrine wrote:

 felixander wrote:
15 shots a turn easily delivered?

19-20 you mean. Strafing run is awesome. And don't forget that it's +1 BS and pinning.

Actually it'd be 18 (17.8), but I didn't forget that it has Strafing Run. I simply didn't know I need to catch up on the rules and look at using one, huh?

I run x2 of these with my Elysian drop troops and they are fantastic and not to mention loads of fun to play with. I dont know about the pinning and all that as in IA8 it is just a standard punisher cannon that is twin linked, but even then the imagery of one of these zooming across the battlefield strafing everything in its path is to good to pass up

Also anyone that cries about "FW being OP" clearly has not looked into it very well and is jumping on the bandwagon, or just is not used to fighting it and because they lost to an army with FW rules or a FW unit it has to be OP...people can really annoy me sometimes.

FW is fine if you dont factor in the power level of the armies you add the units to. Once you take one of the top teir armies and start giving it incredibly powerful units in addition to what they have, then FW starts becoming OP.

Necron Acanthrites are insane, but they are also FA slots competing with Wraiths. They also are pretty poor in melee with 3A S4 for 45 points and are quite short range. They are also not out of experimental rules so they may see changes.

Warp hunters are also insane to the point of being broken, but they are added to an army that is pretty low on the power ranking. It also doesnt solve the problem eldar needed: long range AT. 36" range, 1/3 chance of penning with AP2 means you are only killing a vehicle 1/9 hits. Eldar have enough tricks vs inf.

Those are the only other 2 competitors for "top 3" FW models. Of those 3, the Vulture and Acanthrites are the only two that are OP because of the army they are in. One of those is still in experimental rules.

zephoid wrote:
One of the Top 3 FW units in an army that already has the best flier (vendetta). Not only is it good with 20 shots BS4 TL S5 pinning, but it has VECTOR DANCER. I mean, are you kidding me? The DE fliers dont even have that. With limited access to AA in most armies, this thing is flat out broken. Vendettas always have the problem of not being able to turn enough and being unable to deal with hordes. This thing deals with hordes and gets rear armor on vehicles all day long.

This unit gives credence to the "FW OP" complaints.

It's a unit that's good against Infantry in IG. It's almost as if IG already has tons of options for dealing with hordes...

 gmaleron wrote:
I run x2 of these with my Elysian drop troops and they are fantastic and not to mention loads of fun to play with. I dont know about the pinning and all that as in IA8 it is just a standard punisher cannon that is twin linked, but even then the imagery of one of these zooming across the battlefield strafing everything in its path is to good to pass up

Also anyone that cries about "FW being OP" clearly has not looked into it very well and is jumping on the bandwagon, or just is not used to fighting it and because they lost to an army with FW rules or a FW unit it has to be OP...people can really annoy me sometimes.

Strafing run gives you pinning.

18 hits, 3 glances vs armor 11. Majority of the vehicles in the game have 3 HP, and all except for a very few have AV10 or 11 rear and/or side. Vector dancer gives you side at least the turn it comes in and rear the turn after. Guard is good vs T3 and 4 but struggles vs T5+. This thing does perfectly fine vs T5 and 6.

Vs armor 10 its 3 pens 3 glances meaning it has a 50% chance to blow a closed top vehicle and 100% chance to blow an open topped.

zephoid wrote:

Vs armor 10 its 3 pens 3 glances meaning it has a 50% chance to blow a closed top vehicle and 100% chance to blow an open topped.

There is no 100% chance in mathematical probabilities dealing with random chances.

Not sure how your math came up with that.

i dont think you understand probability buddy.

3 pens with a 1/3 chance to blow up a vehicle (open topped we were referring to) is 100% success rate. That does not mean that you are guaranteed success, it means on average you will blow it up. If i fire 10 fire dragons at an armor 10 vehicle (6 hits, 6 pens) i end up with a 300% chance to kill a non-open topped vehicle or a 400% chance to kill an open topped vehicle. This is mathematically sound because we are dealing with probability. From there you can go into the deviation to see how, given x number of rolls, you will end up with a destroyed vehicle but i will simply leave it with the numeric probability. /math_class

I think they look effin' cool, and will be getting one someday, regardless of the rules for it.

zephoid wrote:
i dont think you understand probability buddy.

3 pens with a 1/3 chance to blow up a vehicle (open topped we were referring to) is 100% success rate. That does not mean that you are guaranteed success, it means on average you will blow it up. If i fire 10 fire dragons at an armor 10 vehicle (6 hits, 6 pens) i end up with a 300% chance to kill a non-open topped vehicle or a 400% chance to kill an open topped vehicle. This is mathematically sound because we are dealing with probability. From there you can go into the deviation to see how, given x number of rolls, you will end up with a destroyed vehicle but i will simply leave it with the numeric probability. /math_class

What you are saying there is that if I shoot at Dark Eldar Raiders with Fire Dragons I will kill 4 of them per turn, with the same squad. You can not get over 100% chance to kill something.

I am not going to touch that further with a very long barge pole.

sigh.....

<Math class>

No, you will not destroy 4 per turn. Rather, you will get 4 explosion results on average. 400% success rate means you are generating 400% of the desired outcome. You are then applying all this fire to a single target, not 4 target. You can indeed get >100% chance to kill a single target if you are adding a number of individual attempts and are attempting to determine the probability of a result. This is statistics and probability 001. You havent even got to 101 yet.
</math class>

Now, can those ignorant of statistics please go look this stuff up instead of cluttering the thread.

It's a great looking model. I'd buy one and magnet it up with alternate crew to be a Storm Talon too, if the damned thing wasn't so ridiculously expensive.

The price, and QC issues Forge World has, are the only things that keep me from getting one.

zephoid wrote:
i dont think you understand probability buddy.

3 pens with a 1/3 chance to blow up a vehicle (open topped we were referring to) is 100% success rate. That does not mean that you are guaranteed success, it means on average you will blow it up. If i fire 10 fire dragons at an armor 10 vehicle (6 hits, 6 pens) i end up with a 300% chance to kill a non-open topped vehicle or a 400% chance to kill an open topped vehicle. This is mathematically sound because we are dealing with probability. From there you can go into the deviation to see how, given x number of rolls, you will end up with a destroyed vehicle but i will simply leave it with the numeric probability. /math_class

3 pens with 1/3 chance to blow up a vehicle is 1-2/3*2/3*2/3 = ~70% success rate. You never, ever, ever, ever add percents like you just did. Ever. 100% success means it IS guaranteed. Is this a troll?

 Evertras wrote:

zephoid wrote:
i dont think you understand probability buddy.

3 pens with a 1/3 chance to blow up a vehicle (open topped we were referring to) is 100% success rate. That does not mean that you are guaranteed success, it means on average you will blow it up. If i fire 10 fire dragons at an armor 10 vehicle (6 hits, 6 pens) i end up with a 300% chance to kill a non-open topped vehicle or a 400% chance to kill an open topped vehicle. This is mathematically sound because we are dealing with probability. From there you can go into the deviation to see how, given x number of rolls, you will end up with a destroyed vehicle but i will simply leave it with the numeric probability. /math_class

3 pens with 1/3 chance to blow up a vehicle is 1-2/3*2/3*2/3 = ~70% success rate. You never, ever, ever, ever add percents like you just did. Ever. 100% success means it IS guaranteed. Is this a troll?

It has to be.