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I was playing a game against a winged Hive Tyrant and my opponent claimed his Tyrant had AP2 close combat attacks. But i don't understand why? I know that a monstrous creature has smash and is therefore ap2 but a FMC does not have smash (or indeed relentless). So i don't understand where the ap2 comes from?

A FMC is still a MC.

Bottom right hand corner of FMC page aka pg 49 special rules section. He has all the MC rules and some.

Monstrous Creatures get the following rules by default, for being a Monstrous Creature:
• Monstrous Creature:
( MC: Fear )
( MC: Hammer of Wrath )
( MC: Move Through Cover )
( MC: Relentless )
( MC: Smash )

An FMC is a Monstrous Creature, with the bonus rules for flight, so gets the following rules by default:
• Flying Monstrous Creature:
( FMC: Fear )
( FMC: Hammer of Wrath )
( FMC: Move Through Cover )
( FMC: Relentless )
( FMC: Smash )
( FMC: Vector Strike )

Ovion I'm not seeing where it says a fmc is a mc?

So threat special rules i have listed for them are:

Fear,
Hammer of wrath,
Move through cover,
Relentless smash &
Vector strike

 FlingitNow wrote:
Ovion I'm not seeing where it says a fmc is a mc?

So threat special rules i have listed for them are:

Fear,
Hammer of wrath,
Move through cover,
Relentless smash &
Vector strike

There's no such thing as "relentless smash", it's missing a comma, it should be "[...]relentless, smash, [...]".

Why should it be that? Did you write the book? Or is it a misprint that my overlord is T5 when he's clearly supposed to be T10. So have you got a rules quote to back up your assertion?

Simply put if you wanted a perfectly written book you should find a different company and a new game to play. There are plenty of typos and punctuation issues in the book, and any reasonable person is willing to accept this and move on with life. If you cant, please speak with your local TO and allow him to set you straight. If you have issues with the book and the way its written please file them with the proper people.

Gamefaqs@gwplc.com <<<<< the proper people

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why should it be that? Did you write the book? Or is it a misprint that my overlord is T5 when he's clearly supposed to be T10. So have you got a rules quote to back up your assertion?

Congrats, you're now being TFG.
It's quite obviously a typo. A Flying Monstrous Creature is a Monstrous Creature, I don't know where it says a Flying Monstrous Creature is a Monstrous Creature, but we'll leave that for now.
Regardless, it lists the special rules it has.

So the rulebook missed a comma, deal with it, it quite obviously has Smash, is AP2 and can halve its attacks to double its Str and re-roll to pen.

I don't have an issue with the way the book is written. I have an issue with people inserting their own words and punctuation and claiming it is raw. Now do you have an actual rules argument?

Ok I'll play ball, lets say it isn't a typo, and contrary to popular belief FMC's don't have Relentless and Smash, they have Relentless Smash, could you show me the page reference for the Relentless Smash special rule, I can't seem to see it. I won't ask you to just type out the definition of the rule on here, because that would be silly and break all sorts of Dakka Codes of Conducts, and rules regarding GW copyright, and heaven forbid their copyright lawyers come down on us, for writing out this, their most protected of rules. I'll eagerly await to find out this new rule my Winged Hive Tyrants get, I love new rules, especially for Christmas

Love it caveman. As he said though, it is obviously a typo, However if you are that bothered by it and think its wrong then next time you compete in an event talk with the TO before hand. If you don't like that idea email GW and see if they will faq that comma for you. I understand your preaching RAW, but common sense has its place as well. Its not like there is a lot of room to argue here as relentless smash does not exist anywhere else in the BRB. While i am sure you will try to argue because as we all know, GW never gets anything wrong in their books and rules. Its really best to just accept it move on and enjoy the game.

I'm excited for it, maybe all this time 'Nid players have been moaning about not having any really AA, we have had it, in the form of Relentless Smash. Thank the Hive Mind, for this one insightful individual for finding it for the rest of us. I can only sit and eagerly await Pg. number for us. Maybe it's like the Map in the Hobbit, that needs reading under the same moonlight, from the same day that it was written to be read....

Relentless smash is as yet undefined and therefore does nothing.

They have Smash. Saying otherwise is being TFG

Can't tell if this guy is being a troll or genuinely stupid and awkward.

Trollbait, who-ha-ha!

But I'll bite.

You say that we shouldn't insert punctuation into the sentence. I say that you cannot assume infallibility, so if you encounter something that does not make sense in context then you can use the context as a guide for what the writers meant grammatically. In this case, we can assume that "Relentless" and "Smash" are separate nouns, even though the grammar is not perfect.

Unless you're saying that we should ignore every rules sentence that has grammatical errors? In which case, this would be a very confusing game indeed.

 Nathemo wrote:
Can't tell if this guy is being a troll or genuinely stupid and awkward.

Does this thread give you the answer you need?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/461276.page

He's a troll and nothing more.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Relentless smash is as yet undefined and therefore does nothing.

Just like this thread.

I would refer the OP to this blog. RAW taken as litterally as you are makes the game unplayable. Should GW fix their typos? Yes. Should you be smart enought to tell when things are obviously typos and not try to game the system? Yes. GW writes their rules assuming lots of things (like the player base understands in general how manythings work). IF you don't like it, good luck finding anyone who will finish a game with you, or a TO who will agree with you.

http://11thcompany.blogspot.com/2012/12/read-as-wrong-what-is-correct-reading.html

 FlingitNow wrote:
Relentless smash is as yet undefined and therefore does nothing.

Sure go that route, now don't use FAQ's or White Dwarf updates either.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Relentless smash is as yet undefined and therefore does nothing.

TFG alert.

Thread locked for trolling.