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I've seen a lot of threads discussing the need for armor saturation in 6th and how if you can't bring enough armor to the table, it's often not worth bringing any because it will just get focused down turn 1. so, are there any guidelines for how much is enough? I have a 1k C:SM list with 2 rhinos and a land speeder. I don't think I could squeeze much more armor in there without ditching my elites or gimping my troops. moving up to 1500, how much more armor should I be thinking about? vindis and preds seem likely, I'm just not sure how many are appropriate/effective for that points level. how about at 2k?

moving over to the chaos side of the house, I've got a 1500pt list I'm building up that only has a defiler and a heldrake for vehicles; everything else is infantry. is my poor defiler destined for constant, inglorious first-turn death?

When you deploy your army, do you put any models on the table that are not vehicles? If so, bring more tanks.

Well let me put it this way...If I play against you and I bring autocannons and lascannons and you have a single defiler and lots of bodies what do you think that I'm going to shoot at? My anti vehicle weapons will shoot the defiler. If however you bring 6 vehicles I need to prioritize my targets and have choices to make.

If you bring a couple terminators a land raiders and a couple rhinos my plasma my melta and my autocannons all have targets that they are made to destroy. If you bring nothing but meq bodies then my lascannons autocannons and melta will all be rendered significantly less useful. If you are going to bring something then bring 3 of them.

varl wrote: I don't think I could squeeze much more armor in there without ditching my elites

Here's your problem. If you're sinking a bunch of points into non-vehicular elites units, then you won't, in fact, have enough points left over for enough vehicles. Take either vehicles or elite infantry - not both.

I started off playing 6th with a hybrid style guard list and I have gone back to playing a full mech list. I was finding that I either lost most of my men straight up or most of my vehicles so I have put only vehicles on the table turn 1 and I'm having a lot more success. I'm almost totally immune to small arms fire so it renders a lot of my opponets shooting useless. The same would work if I went full foot horde it would render most of my opponents AT less useful.

 Ailaros wrote:

varl wrote: I don't think I could squeeze much more armor in there without ditching my elites

Here's your problem. If you're sinking a bunch of points into non-vehicular elites units, then you won't, in fact, have enough points left over for enough vehicles. Take either vehicles or elite infantry - not both.

this. the elites are not scoring so what can they do that preds,vindis, and LRs cant do?

At least doubles of any vehicle you're hoping will make a contribution, but not so much that you don't have enough wounds on the table.
That's how I run my Necrons. 3 barges, 2 scythes, and a whole mess Of various infantry. Worked pretty well so far.

It depends on what AV your vehicles are. If its av 10-11, you're going to need to spam them. If you add an av 14 piece to your list, however, it can take fire off of your lower av vehicles.

Armadeus wrote:
It depends on what AV your vehicles are. If its av 10-11, you're going to need to spam them. If you add an av 14 piece to your list, however, it can take fire off of your lower av vehicles.

Maybe. But LR's don't soak up any autocannon fire. Or krak missiles from smart players. Pretty much, LR is melta or lascannon or railgun or go home. Everything not that's not those weapons should still be firing at lower AV vehicles.

I am attempting at running with 2x Defilers, 1x Forgefiend, and 3x Rhinos. We shall see what happens. I also have Terminators deepstriking in with Chaos Sorceror lord attached to the squad, and 2x Helbrutes

It's not about armor count, is about forcing the enemy to make choices.

If you simply take one landraider and 4 rhinos, all heavy anti-tank is hitting the landraider.

Just try to max out the armor. I've been trying a CSM list with 2 drakes, 3 hellbrutes, a landraider plus a single rhino and mixing in abbadon with some chosen and oblits. It's been working well. Nothing like 5 av 12 guys, plus an av 14 with doom in it.

I find the magic number of AV 12 (this includes Predators with their terrible side armor) and lower to be five. Anything less than that and you lose it all before it does anything.

I do have success with three at AV 13, but I'm not comfortable with those numbers. I'd like more but the FOC doesn't allow me.

 varl wrote:
I've seen a lot of threads discussing the need for armor saturation in 6th and how if you can't bring enough armor to the table,

In the local meta I play at I'm not seeing much armor at all.

If your looking to saturate as C:SM, look at dakka predators. They are excellent in a meta where everyone is bringing foot troops.

Another good solution is the storm talon. Flyers are very good right now, and the storm talon is good for its price.

Fill in the gaps with some rhinos and your good to go.