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Guys... I know, maybe this is an hyperbole, but reading the New DA dex I was truly amazed.
The number of options available is incredible, I'm still unable to make a list because I am overwhelmed by the different builds available. The internal balance is striking, there are no clearly OP or clearly bad units (maybe the flyers looks a little meh on the paper but I'm not sure).
All of this without being an OP cheesefest like Newcrons or GK.
Chapeau Mr. Vetock!
What do you guys think?

I'm pretty happy with the codex. It's not super cheesy, and it's not bad either.. kinda well-balanced as far as I can tell.

The flyers, however, are a waste of time and a waste of space. Did they really do any game balance testing with those things? Heldrakes will laugh at them. Everybody and their mother who already have ADL + Quad Gun will shoot it down the moment after it enters the field. Dakkajets will blow them up by just looking at them. The hell GW were thinking?

70 pt 5 man tacticals make my CSM very sad (75 pts for 5 men, and we don't get the loyalist rules).

I think It'll be a strong army and it makes me curious as to what Vanilla SM will get, as everything becomes cheaper. Moreso, following this trend, what will Tau/Eldar (really cheap psykers?)/Orks (cheaper everything?) look like?

Best, as in done right/best? Could be.

Best as in most cheese/OP? Not close.

 Lobukia wrote:
Best, as in done right/best? Could be.

Best as in most cheese/OP? Not close.

I think meant your first option. Glad to hear Vetock is a looking like a solid 40k writer too. Also glad 6th is running away from broken armies like fantasy 8th did. And the balance thing is definitely an improvement, so long as we can stay away from OP fantasy daemons and dark elves (VC are already obviously not OP in 8th).

Best as in most cheese/OP? Not close

Indeed I meant the exact opposite. A cheesy/OP codex is not a good codex IMHO. Lots of people hate to play against some GK builds or Cronair or SW MSU+Long fang spam , while I think that pretty much everybody will lov to play with or against DA. Maybe I'm a little bit apologetic but, as a rock hard DA fan, waiting a good dex since the days of "angels of death" I have to somehow express my happiness

I love the book. It looks like it has some good options compared to vanilla marines, and I can airlift most of my models to it.

The rules are rather good not over the top mega cheese. But on the other hand the actual quality of the book is abysmal the pull out section at the back isn't printed on glossy paper and looks like it was printed by 90s inkjet in comparison to the chaos codex which is glossy and same quality as the rest of the book. Not to mention all of the typos of important special rules missile lock on non blast weapon good one! Not only do we have to pay more for the new edition the quality is far worse. Think ill be waiting for a PDF version or get the ipad version

I think it is very well rounded and not over the top. I am glad to finally have the ability to take my amy again. First game monday night will show me if it is better.

Glad to see a lot of people agree about the good quality of this dex. not a lot of discussions.

only problem is I have to keep turning to the wargear page X-X

plus, I still can't tell if the Company master can take a thunder hammer in terminator armor.

 NEWater wrote:
I'm pretty happy with the codex. It's not super cheesy, and it's not bad either.. kinda well-balanced as far as I can tell.

The flyers, however, are a waste of time and a waste of space. Did they really do any game balance testing with those things? Heldrakes will laugh at them. Everybody and their mother who already have ADL + Quad Gun will shoot it down the moment after it enters the field. Dakkajets will blow them up by just looking at them. The hell GW were thinking?

I think they are a clever idea. Not a game breaking unit of death, but not really terrible either. I don't think most armies will focus a whole lot on them after realizing they aren't going to wreck your army in one pass. It's clever in that it makes picking a target of priority difficult, What would you rather focus hurt on, that or a whirlwind? Or some bikes? Or a Land Speeder? Because on paper it doenst seem to be a standout threat. Petty clever imo

You can always memorize the wargear page like every tau player ever.

There's a few cute tricks to the new DA book, but it looks like a good balanced book.

Has the age of spiritual liege transformed into the balanced codexes of yore? I hope so.

The only problem I see is that lots of options are not so clear... there is some confusion about who can get what (an example I think will become infamous is TH/SS armed with CML)

 punkow wrote:
Guys... I know, maybe this is an hyperbole, but reading the New DA dex I was truly amazed.
The number of options available is incredible, I'm still unable to make a list because I am overwhelmed by the different builds available. The internal balance is striking, there are no clearly OP or clearly bad units (maybe the flyers looks a little meh on the paper but I'm not sure).
All of this without being an OP cheesefest like Newcrons or GK.
Chapeau Mr. Vetock!
What do you guys think?

Im curious about the issue you have with, shall we use your term, "newcrons"? Ive been out of the scene for a long time, and had necrons well before the new codex. I havent had time to sit down and read through the whole thing yet as Im just in the mood to paint lately, not so much play right now, but what is the issue or discontent with the new codex and new necrons?

 punkow wrote:
Guys... I know, maybe this is an hyperbole, but reading the New DA dex I was truly amazed.
The number of options available is incredible, I'm still unable to make a list because I am overwhelmed by the different builds available. The internal balance is striking, there are no clearly OP or clearly bad units (maybe the flyers looks a little meh on the paper but I'm not sure).
All of this without being an OP cheesefest like Newcrons or GK.
Chapeau Mr. Vetock!
What do you guys think?

I think the new DA codex will level out and be pretty much on par with the new CSM's codex myself...

Both have a good unit selection with no real standout "must-spam FTW!" and yet no real turd units either.
CSM's is a bit more specialised, wheras DA's like all loyalist marine armies, are more genralist and forgiving of errors. Because of that inherent trait, then perhaps the DA's will end up with an ever-so-slight edge on the CSM's book.
Both however are clearly also in need of a serious FAQ to clear-up some bad wording and/or missing options! (looking at you stupid Noise Champ who can't take a sonic blaster or even get a ing basic CCW!!! )

I think the poor reception of the flyers is right now due to the fact that everyone, (especially hard-core tournament players), are comparing them to the current borderline broken flyers;
a) DA's don't have the pure saturation spam-point of both Necrons & IG.
b) DA's don't have the OTT av12 combined with insane undercosting of IG flyers.

But, compare them to the 'saner' flyers of Orks, DE & SM's and they're looking pretty well balanced on the whole. (S6 is more than fine for taking out av10 or av11 planes)

Let's hope GW can continue doing in 40k what they've been doing in Fantasy!

I think the 6th ed design brief is to provide options, options, options. Lots and lots of possible builds. CSM is the same.

I am not a WAAC player and I don't math-hammer to find out which are the 'best' lists. I build by looking at what makes sense tactically to me, what looks good together, themed armies, etc. From that viewpoint the two 6th ed codeces are very encouraging.

Still think you'll get spammed Deathwing Knights though. At least as much as you can spam them.

KRUDD wrote:

 punkow wrote:
Guys... I know, maybe this is an hyperbole, but reading the New DA dex I was truly amazed.
The number of options available is incredible, I'm still unable to make a list because I am overwhelmed by the different builds available. The internal balance is striking, there are no clearly OP or clearly bad units (maybe the flyers looks a little meh on the paper but I'm not sure).
All of this without being an OP cheesefest like Newcrons or GK.
Chapeau Mr. Vetock!
What do you guys think?

Im curious about the issue you have with, shall we use your term, "newcrons"? Ive been out of the scene for a long time, and had necrons well before the new codex. I havent had time to sit down and read through the whole thing yet as Im just in the mood to paint lately, not so much play right now, but what is the issue or discontent with the new codex and new necrons?

Well ... In general i like the necron codex... actually I'm absolutely not a Ward-hater (I think his codices are well made, with good internal balance and in the end, pretty much balanced against each other)
But the necron dex is plagued by "her"... the dreaded build that makes even leafblower IG envy its brokennes: CRON-AIR.... The Necron Flyerspam is the major source of the hate that necrons get.
EDIT: erhmmm maybe I used too much jargon... what I mean is that Necrons have the cance to seriously SPAM flyers while most of the armies currently around do not have the means to take them down... but apart from this build, necrons are a good army that can be very fun to play with or against... much more than other armies supposed to be "balanced" like the space wolves (the worst codex EVER in my humble opinion)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not a fan of the CSM codex though... It really lacks lots of options( few daemon weapons, no cult terminators, no rules for 4 chaos legions) and in general is not as internally balanced as the new DA one seems to be (eg: Daemon princes, raptors, berzerkers, Defilers...are clearly awful or at least situational choices, while others, like bikers and spawns are no-brainers)

I have not read it in detail YET. But from the bits i have, it strikes me as a very very bad codex (as in some units are plain better than their direct competitors in the same book, which also happen to be the new models) and some units are plain broken.

Examples:

-Divination psychic on marine stats for 65 points.
-Death wing terminators vs Death wing knights, knights are plain better all around, cheaper, same slot.

Deathwing can be unlocked as troops, which you'd have known if you actually bothered to read the Codex instead of skimming it.

Using up HQ slots to gain access to Divination is hardly broken, even if a Librarian is only 65 points.

A librarian is only 65pts?!?! Heck, an IG Primaris pysker is 70 and all he gets is a force staff, flak armor, and mastery one with a +5 invuln. Oh, and a laspistol, because thats helpful

xxvaderxx wrote:
I have not read it in detail YET. But from the bits i have, it strikes me as a very very bad codex (as in some units are plain better than their direct competitors in the same book, which also happen to be the new models) and some units are plain broken.

Examples:

-Divination psychic on marine stats for 65 points.
-Death wing terminators vs Death wing knights, knights are plain better all around, cheaper, same slot.

I don't understand... How the Librarian is broken? Yes it is undercosted if we confront it with previous codices incarnations but actually I rather think that the previous incarnation were overcosted (and DA libbies do not have acess to horrible things like Jotww )
Also DW knights are not cheaper and lacks the new DW goodness: Vengeful strike (TL on the turn they deepstrike) and split fire which make Shooty Termies much more interesting now.

For someone who has previosuly bought some codexes for occassional play and general keeping up on the fluff /background - how is it (apart from very expensive)?

I do like the cover art......

Chaos sorcerers are 60pts as well, it's how they are pricing them at ML 1 in 6th edition

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Chaos sorcerers are 60pts as well, it's how they are pricing them at ML 1 in 6th edition

If i remember correctly they dont get access to divination do they?.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
A librarian is only 65pts?!?! Heck, an IG Primaris pysker is 70 and all he gets is a force staff, flak armor, and mastery one with a +5 invuln. Oh, and a laspistol, because thats helpful

That huge discrepancy in pricing makes me nervous for the IG codex changes. The vendetta is so going to be more than 130pts. Although on the other hand, a PP for 40-50 points sounds awesome for a mech list.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Chaos sorcerers are 60pts as well, it's how they are pricing them at ML 1 in 6th edition

If i remember correctly they dont get access to divination do they?.

CSM do not get access to Divination :(


It's a very well written codex, sprinkled with some errors (Plasma talons, haha). It has lot's of options, but the Necron codex is still my favorite.

I dunno, but one of our players brought a pretty scary DA army today: it had 2 ML2 divination libs, 2x5 TH/SS+CML Terminators, 6x5 Lascannon Tacticals, 3x10 4xPC Devastators and an ADL w/quad gun. He wiped the floor with a CSM Nurgle tourney list and gave a hard time to my gunline IG too. And it was just his first try... As I can see, the book definitely has some cheese in it, but the good kind of cheese, what is not in-your-face, like the Vendetta. But at least it is not a "mediocre for mediocrity's sake" codex like the CSM ...

Well I am liking the sound of the new route of Balanced codex's now thats put a smile on my face at least...

Also dose the DA book have their own warlord trait table like the CSM one dose or not?

 happygolucky wrote:
Well I am liking the sound of the new route of Balanced codex's now thats put a smile on my face at least...

Also dose the DA book have their own warlord trait table like the CSM one dose or not?

They do have their own warlord table.