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Hey guys,

So I have been contemplating creating an allied detachment for my space marine army. I have a what I believe to be a decent 750 point space marine army. (With an extra HQ laying around). I was thinking of making an allied Tau Empire detachment to round it out to about 1000 points.

But really my question is are allied detachments really worth it if they are battle brothers? Or do you think that its better not to use one?

p.s sorry if this is in the wrong section

Battle brothers tend to be the best, as they can make the most use of their abilities. IG for example can abuse the heck out of allied IC's to turn our blobs into close combat monsters that chew up anything and spit it back out. No idea how Tau and Space marines would work though.

Allies of convenience can work as well (orks and IG is a fun one for example) although they take a bit more finesse to pull off.

Desperate allies are just that, desperate. I would never use them unless I just happened to only have those models on me and had no other way of fielding a legal army that day.

Ya I was looking over my rulebook before and knew that if I were to choose a allied detachment it would have to be battle brother because I thought it would be easier to play.

But I really don't know if the Tau and Space Marines would play well together.

Does anyone know if they do work well together?

Usually you bring an allied detachment to cover a weakness in your main force (like, reliable CC in an IG army. That's why people love using Space Wolves with IG, all the IC boosting and Counter-Assault goodness).

Tau and Space Marines? I guess if you use your SM's as a pushing force and bring the Tau to hold home objectives and give long range cover...

Well that's pretty much the plan is use the space Marines as the main force but then have an xv8 commander for the hq option and a group of fire warriors and also a group of gun drones to provide some long range cover fire because I know they are pretty weak in Armour but can definitely reach out and pick some enemies off at long ranges which appeals to me but I'm not sure if that would even work well

That's like asking if armies are worth it. They answer depends on what you put in it. If your allied detachment is all lousy units, then forget it. If it's a selection of units that will work well with the rest of your army, it's a good choice. Pretty straightforward. I would definitely take Batlte Brothers if I could, but the next level down isn't bad. I would just avoid the lowest level of it where they might not act how you want them to.

If you're relying on FW to hold a home objective, you'll be a bit disappointed if anything deep strikes/outflank them. They will die very easily to almost anything, especially in CC.

That being said, if you protect them properly they will most definitely keep enemy units away from them. I, for one, am not fond of multiple FW volleys on a scoring unit of mine.

chiefbigredman wrote:
Ya I was looking over my rulebook before and knew that if I were to choose a allied detachment it would have to be battle brother because I thought it would be easier to play.

But I really don't know if the Tau and Space Marines would play well together.

Does anyone know if they do work well together?

Im playing them together right now in prep for a tournament. Tau with space marine allies. The Space marines are very nice. A first turn drop of a taq squad and a teleporting librarian plus your retinue of choice mean that your opponent has to deal with that before poking its way over to your tau gunline. Either deal with the space marines, or be chewed by em from behind. I love it

Not to mention a bastion with fire warriors inside and telion on top manning a quad gun is a very nice addition to the tau style of 'stand and shoot'

Allied Detachments are absolutely worth it if you need to fill holes in your list. My Grey Knights are awesome, but they're slower than I'd like and nigh-useless at over 24" range, so I take an airborne Guard allied detachment to fill the holes in the list. If you need some close-combat punch with a Tau army grab Space Marines as harassment, convert a heretic Guard army to provide fire support to Chaos Marines, who knows? The combinations are many and the possibilities broad.

I sort of consider Allies as a WAAC tactic for tournaments. Some pairings do fit like SM and IG but the fluff enthusiast inside of me just won't accept bringing Tau allies for my Orks despite how great they would be at filling the ranged anti-tank role.

Then again, just saying the Broadside is looted and making it look Orky would be a fun project.

I just got ruckus'd today by Dark Eldar with space wolf allies, it just reinforced why I think allies are broken and a sales gimmick.

Well, as discussed at several occasions here, you have to pay a tax if you take an ally detachment.
I think its only worth it in larger pt games, 1750 pts or higher. Don't bother in smaller ones. Battle Brothers are the way to go if any.

 Ravenous D wrote:
I just got ruckus'd today by Dark Eldar with space wolf allies, it just reinforced why I think allies are broken and a sales gimmick.

same was said about vehicles being changed, flyers being introduced, and just about every new codex that comes out. It just gives you some more flavor.

Your allied detachment should bring something your army can't do. I bring psy defense in the form of an eldar farseer for my tau all the time.

I would consider it but realy why not just take more Boyz? Oh wait you are not an Ork player.

But realy, they can be fun and there are some realy good combos.

As a Necron player my issue with allies is that the stuff in my codex is quite good at everything I want it to do.

I have other armies that I wouldn't mind allying with, but I don't see the need.

 juraigamer wrote:
Your allied detachment should bring something your army can't do. I bring psy defense in the form of an eldar farseer for my tau all the time.

And then you are going against Necrons and the tax you paid is very high.

I'm looking at getting some Nurgle allies for my Bad Moons. That's purely fluffy though, I'm ripping the fluff straight from a story about Orks finding an old Nurgle Temple and accidentally setting off some Plague Bearers et al.... Looking forward to modelling those...

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, as discussed at several occasions here, you have to pay a tax if you take an ally detachment.
I think its only worth it in larger pt games, 1750 pts or higher. Don't bother in smaller ones. Battle Brothers are the way to go if any.

The allies don't have to be a tax if you need something the HQ and troops bring. SW bring tougher troops for objectives and psychic defence which my IG can't bring. Definitely not a tax.

Another combination would be Deathwing with Farseer+Rangers for holding objectives. Though with RoW on, you might as well leave the librarian at home.

Would a Squad of 10 rangers along with a Farseer with RoW, Fortune, Guide and Spirit sone be worth it for allies detachment?

I'll say this, allies generally are only worth it if they meet at least one of these criteria:

1. They synergize well with your existing army (ie, Space Marine characters leading Guard blobs, Eldar and Dark Eldar)
2. They patch a hole in your army that you desperately need patched (ie, taking an ally with fliers when you are playing Space Wolves or Tau)
3. Their troops and HQ choices are either ridiculously cheap or are both work taking on their own (ie, Space Wolves)

Those are the only times that, in my experience, it is worth it. Otherwise the HQ + troops tax is too high and all it ends up doing is diluting what an army does well.

As an interesting note, however, allies is great at providing some more balance to the metagame. With the exception of IG and SW, none of the top tier armies really gain anything from taking allies, as it simply dilutes their ability to do what they do well. On the other hand, weaker armies like Tau and Eldar benefit greatly from allies as it lets them patch the massive holes in their army.

Well I guess for the amount of points I have its really not worth it for my army. The only real use for the tau for this setup I have would be to grab a hq battle suit and then use a fire warriors squad and a gun drone squad to help pick of the left overs that the space marine tac squads leave behind or holding down objectives if they are away from the main battle.

The taus range for their guns is what made me ask the question because I didn't think the space marine scout snipers were that good :p but I guess in reality it might not be worth it to take the allied detachment :p

Well since you can move and shoot, your effective range is 30" and you don't need to rely on cover as much as FW do.

first off, for smaller points say less than 1500, no allies usally are not worth it.

The HQ-troop tax that is being thrown around dakka is just silly overall, BUT there is a point to why they are saying it. One should not just bring allies because, like everything else in your army there should be a point to why you are bringing them.

FWs are a weaker troop choice to use your SM/Tau build example. But you aren't taking Tau for thier troops, you would take tau for crisis suits and broadsides.

So an HQ (crisis suit) that fits in with any other ciris suits you would bring (probably a TwL Missle Pod config.) and a couple of broadsides for amazing anti tank capability, and a single FW squad to hold a backfield objective.

This gives your SM army some solid firesupport and puts a few more bodies on the table.

I better example would be a Tau primary with SM as a allied choice. If you already have 4 FW squads (or two) bringing two full man tac squads and combat squading them into 4x5 man squads allows you to have way more options in taking points or defining roles for those squads.

A melta gun, plasma cannon, and a sargant with melta bombs, in a 10 man squad breaks down to x2 guys with melta and 3 regular dudes and a stationary plasma cannon in the back with 4 regular marines, both with defined battlefield roles and that can capture objectives.

so for tau/SM you would want to load up on marine troops and for SM/tau you would take the min troops. And the "tax" is honestly only 25 to 50 points at most, doing it right. But this often brings you options beyond what your core army can do making a better overall list. Also that HQ can bring you options that don't normally happen with your primary army, shuch as a psyker.

Here is a netlist (not my doing) out there that honestly shows how the synergy can work and why allies ARE good:

1750 necron/chaos

1 Overlord, 180 pts (Warscythe; Warlord)
1 Catacomb Command Barge

1 Sorcerer (HQ) [Chaos], 70 pts (Bolt Pistol; Force Axe; Melta Bombs; Veterans of the Long War)

1 Royal Court, 50 pts
1 Harbinger of the Storm (Harbinger of the Storm; Voltaic Staff)
1 Harbinger of the Storm (Harbinger of the Storm; Voltaic Staff)

19 Chaos Cultists (Troops) [Chaos], 100 pts (Heavy Stubber x2)
1 Cultist Champion [Chaos]

19 Chaos Cultists (Troops) [Chaos], 100 pts (Heavy Stubber x2)
1 Cultist Champion [Chaos]

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

7 Immortals, 119 pts (Tesla Carbine)

7 Immortals, 119 pts (Tesla Carbine)

4 Canoptek Wraiths, 140 pts

4 Chaos Spawn (Fast) [Chaos], 120 pts

1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

2 Obliterator (Heavy) [Chaos], 152 pts (Mark of Nurgle)

That list is nasty.

 Ravenous D wrote:
I just got ruckus'd today by Dark Eldar with space wolf allies, it just reinforced why I think allies are broken and a sales gimmick.

The table makes zero sense in the least. It is crazy that, according to the table, that some marine chapters would be happier allying with xenos scum than other marine chapters. That is just dumb and makes zero sense with respect to the Imperium background. I don't care how much rivalry existed between two primarchs, having brother marines on your flank should ALWAYS be preferable to IG, which should also be preferable to any Xenos forces as allies. It would make sense for xenos forces to not be bothered by many ally pairings, except for eldar who are even more xenophobic than humans are. Of course why Eldar and Dark Eldar would be anything but the most extreme allies is beyond me. Dark Eldar stand against everything that the regular Eldar stand for now. It is comparable to Space marines allying with chaos marines because, well they follow chaos, but at least they are humans.

It just seems that they decided to add the allies to the game and then just throw darts at some cards up on the wall to determine which forces an army could ally with and another throw to determine the trust level. Poor 'nids had darts thrown by Jervis after a long night at the pub and he couldn't hit anything.

Skriker

Yeah and all for fluff reasons.. I guess they never heard of genestealer cults. Its a burn that the marines can fill every roll with their huge list of allies, but when it comes to nids, nope, you, you should have bought marines.

Honestly it just doesnt feel right. Like look at the necron/chaos list above, it just seems like one of those abominations you see those 10 year old kids bring into stores. No rhymn or reason but "Just 'cause".