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Okay Dakka, just saw the new DA models and wanted to buy a few, especially the new termies. However, i'm finishing up buying my Necron army to around the 2000 point mark and once thats done i'll be starting a CSM army. Is there any fluff suportting a Dark Angels group falling to Chaos? What I wanted to do was paint them all Chaosy and take an exacto blade to any DA iconography and drill holes and slits in the capes/robes. If there isnt one already, I planned on makign an entire Chapter based on fallen DAs...something named after Lions maybe in the name. I personally know very little DA lore, so any help is very appreciated.
The Fallen are not organized. They are not an army. They are, at best, small warbands made up of individuals. There is no "Fallen Angels Chapter" floating around there.
Finding more than one Fallen Angel in one place is a huge oddity. The Chaos Gods didn't make the task of finding them all an easy one.
If you want to make a Fallen-themed army, then make it your Warlord. Fallen are Heresy-era Dark Angels, famed tacticians and planners. A Fallen commander is a force to be reckoned with.
If you want to do a more modern group of rebel marines then the Red Corsairs are the way to go. They take renegades from all chapters. So you could always have a whole squad made from Dark Angels who recently went renegade and perhaps even have an outright member of the Fallen in there.
But Fallen Angels are just so rare that making a whole list of them would be unfeasible.
The Dark Angels codex has some great ideas for where you might find the Fallen. And recent Deathwatch fluff (from the RPG) has a group of members (again, very, very rare) called Black Shields (I think) that opens the way for repentant Fallen looking to atone for their transgressions (if you wanted to slot one in to a loyalist force as an "advisor", for example). But with Fallen, less is more. Maybe one, two max in the army in positions of power. Try to make them tooled up and as strong as possible, the kind of thing a Dark Angels player will want to devote a whole unit of Deathwing Knights to smacking down.
Ah ok, well the fallen thing was if that didnt work, I'd make my HQ/Warlord my DA traitor and make him a Grandmaster or maybe use the rules of one of the CSM named HQs to show his tactical prowess as well as being a beast. I was hoping to use a good number of terminators and maybe bikes. Cultists as troops and watnot. If I went the Fallen Warlord route, I planned on naming him the Black Lion or something. Is that a better plan fluffwise? This is my fluffy army, my crons are for tourny play unless the CSM list I build is good enough.
Automatically Appended Next Post: as a side note, I have yet to buy either of the twos codex, so I'm semi noob to both armies . This is just for future reference and to have the fluff set in stone for when its time to actually build the army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/15 04:32:26
In the old DA codex, there were a couple of battles of a small Fallen band against the Dark Angels IIRC and they slew a dozen Deathwing before dying.
The best thing about the Fallen is that some are easily found as a few repent and some others just make a small band of Fallen and lead Cult armies, easily killed.
Others however, like the legendary Cypher, are like cats: Elusive and deadly and strike when least expected. But if cornered, they will kill and slaughter and become invisible.
A few banded together in the Early Days after the Fall of Caliban, but as Ronin_eX said, their an oddity and a blue moon occurance, but a blue moon is a possibility, and as are the Fallen banding together.
Just for a note, I plan on doing a Fluff CSM Fallen army just like you, and a mentional idea if you choose a small band of the traitors. Have them in powerful states (Terminator Lord, Daemon Prince, Dark Apostles etc.) and their mentioned to lead entire bands of Cultists, preferring them to others.
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1W OL 1D
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Nothing to say Fallen Dark Angels have to be from heresy era fallen that were scattered through time and space.
You could quite eaisly claim they are more recent renegades from the Dark Angels or one of their successors.
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JOIN THE ETERNAL WAR. SAY YOU FOLLOWED MY LINK IN YOUR INTRODUCTION TO HELP TZEENTCHS CAUSE.
All of the Fallen were scattered through time and space, so as said, most of them operate alone.
IIRC, the only one who's able to get more than a few in one place at a time is Cypher, who only does so rarely.
Still, if you really want a warband of Fallen Angels, calling your Chaos Lord (assuming you're going with the Chaos Codex) Cypher, tooling him with a pair of pistols and some kind of bad-ass sword (props if you can get the old Cypher model for it) is a fluffy way to get around that.
And since Cypher appears uncorrupted and doesn't seem to care about either Chaos or the Imperium , you could have both penitent Fallen, full-on corrupted Fallen and non-Dark Angels all together in any mix you prefer in the same warband.
Or if the Chaos Codex doesn't allow dual pistols, model him with them and use them as counts-as something shooty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/15 20:44:42
Actual "Fallen" as the DA's are typically obsessed with, are pre-heresy Legionnaire's, and aren't really organized as a chapter or found in particularly large groups, they're usually solo or in very small squads/warbands.
That said, there's nothing that says DA's are infallible and that they or a successor haven't had a small task force or a company go rogue since then...
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
While there is no evidence to the fact that Fallen congregate in large groups, there is no reason why YOUR army can be made up of Fallen Angels.
Take my planned army for example:
I'm going to use the new Codex to represent Cypher and I'm going to use only weapons and Wargear that they would have had just after the Heresy.
Fluff wise, my Fallen Angels believe that it was Lion El'Johnson that was the traitor and that they are trying to fight the Imperium for falling away from what the Emperor had originally intended for the Imperium. Cypher has been gathering these "Fallen" for this cause, strongly believing that he can save the Imperium from itself while redeeming the Fallen from a fate at the hands of the Dark Angels.
It's stuff like this that makes this hobby worthwile. Creating your own fluff is very rewarding, to hell with those who say you can't.
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
there can be both good and bad Fallen,
while im a fan of Cypher leading some in a Redemption quest.
Its all the conspiracies around the Darkangels that keep it fun. i just dont feel it can stay that way forever the truth always comes out.
The Fallen are not organized. They are not an army. They are, at best, small warbands made up of individuals. There is no "Fallen Angels Chapter" floating around there.
Sure they can. The Fallen are mostly single marines running around, but there are small bands of them too.
Maybe the army only has a dozen Fallen and the rest are renagades they have picked up over the years.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The Fallen (as capitalised) would be more likely to be wearing Heresy era kit, rather than the more ornate kit from the new models. However it's your army, so go with what you like Its been 10, 000 years. More than enough time for another dirty secret to be added to the Dark Angels legend.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
overlordweasel wrote: Ah ok, well the fallen thing was if that didnt work, I'd make my HQ/Warlord my DA traitor and make him a Grandmaster or maybe use the rules of one of the CSM named HQs to show his tactical prowess as well as being a beast. I was hoping to use a good number of terminators and maybe bikes. Cultists as troops and watnot. If I went the Fallen Warlord route, I planned on naming him the Black Lion or something. Is that a better plan fluffwise? This is my fluffy army, my crons are for tourny play unless the CSM list I build is good enough.
Automatically Appended Next Post: as a side note, I have yet to buy either of the twos codex, so I'm semi noob to both armies . This is just for future reference and to have the fluff set in stone for when its time to actually build the army.
As they do operate in small Warbands, you could have a small (500pts) CSM force and make it all Fallen. The best route is one discussed here though. Make your Warlord, and maybe a couple of other individuals in your army (say a Sorcerer or a Champion of some form) the Fallen angels, and the CSM are the servants they have around them. As they are powerful marines from the Great Crusade, they would be in positions of power and could well have lots of CSM and cultists in thrall.
I represent the Surrey Spartans gaming group. Check us out and feel free to come along for a game! https://www.facebook.com/groups/425689674233804/ Tzeentch Daemons 2000pts Kabal of the Sundering Strike 2500pts Eldar Corsairs 750pts 400pts Corregidor/Nomads 300pts Yu Jing 200pts+ each of Imperial and Rebel fleets for X-Wing
A Terran Alliance and Dindrenzi Fleet for Firestorm Armada
A Necromunda Goliath gang and Spyrer gang
Considering there were barely over 100 Fallen, and several dozen have since been captured and/or killed, a whole army of them (replete with terminator armor and such) seems very unlikely.
That said, a handful of Fallen leading new recruits they trained in Dark Angels methodology of war is not outside the realm of possibility.
What you could do, and this was one of those OOOOH! I HAVE AN IDEA kind of things, is have an army with a fallen Daemon Prince - paint him up like a dark angel.
His followers then try to emulate his look, as they see him as almost on par with a god.
Omegus wrote: Considering there were barely over 100 Fallen, and several dozen have since been captured and/or killed, a whole army of them (replete with terminator armor and such) seems very unlikely.
That said, a handful of Fallen leading new recruits they trained in Dark Angels methodology of war is not outside the realm of possibility.
Just out of interest, where did you get the number for 100 Fallen? Im not contesting that btw, im just curious. I thought there were more Fallen on Caliban when it was destroyed, but thats just what I assumed, I had no fact to base that on.
I represent the Surrey Spartans gaming group. Check us out and feel free to come along for a game! https://www.facebook.com/groups/425689674233804/ Tzeentch Daemons 2000pts Kabal of the Sundering Strike 2500pts Eldar Corsairs 750pts 400pts Corregidor/Nomads 300pts Yu Jing 200pts+ each of Imperial and Rebel fleets for X-Wing
A Terran Alliance and Dindrenzi Fleet for Firestorm Armada
A Necromunda Goliath gang and Spyrer gang
Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe establishes that the Interrogator-Chaplains have something like ~138 names of those who first swore allegiance to Luther and disappeared into the Warp rift.
Descent of Angels states the number of those exiled to Caliban in the hundreds. Some died squashing the Chaos plot, others in the infighting that followed, and I'm sure quite a few more died during the bombardment of Caliban.
So there's some amount of play in the number of Fallen, but it's certainly nowhere near the "half the dark angles turn to choas loloololololo!!11!" comments that you see a lot on these boards.
Omegus 500628 5191384 r97bad1777309939cdc6d9338a260b4.png wrote:Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe establishes that the Interrogator-Chaplains have something like ~138 names of those who first swore allegiance to Luther and disappeared into the Warp rift.
Descent of Angels states the number of those exiled to Caliban in the hundreds. Some died squashing the Chaos plot, others in the infighting that followed, and I'm sure quite a few more died during the bombardment of Caliban.
So there's some amount of play in the number of Fallen, but it's certainly nowhere near the "half the dark angles turn to choas loloololololo!!11!" comments that you see a lot on these boards.
I had always taken it that a large proportion of the Caliban garrison fell with Luther. The curent codex states that he corrupted several generations of recruits and that sounds like way more than a measly 150 marines. the previous codex also mentions thatLuthr corrupted all in his care and a whole generationn of recruit. And all the fluff runing back to the old old "Angels of Death" codex has it that the traitors escaped to shielded monastries (plural) which again hints at having at least a few thousand of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also there is a single chaplain who convinced 10 fallen angels to repent in his career. Given that the success rate of getting repentance is supposed to be small if there were only 150 or so Fallen that one chaplain ould seem to have dealt with half of them personally
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/19 02:01:48
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Yes, there is one guy with 10 pearls, and he is by far the only one to have anywhere near that many.
The old Angels of Death codex is reprinted verbatim in the new codex, nothing has changed. The garrison was relatively small, less than one company, yet people automatically assume half of the Chapter went traitor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/19 04:08:00
Have a question, are DAs pretty much UN-corruptable just like GKs fluff wise? I'm askign this because My fluff is circling the thought of having a Chaos Lord (count as Abbadon rules wise) deciding to make it his life mission to corrupt and enslave as many DAs in spite of their chapter; or something like that. As abbadon makes Chosen troops, I figured I'd make any Chosen I took in my army would be modeled as corrupted DAs. Possibly tying in a sorc as a "councilor" or a Dark Apostle as his main tool for corrupting the layalists. Possible group of Termies with VotLW as the Lords entourage, signifying a group of the Fallen he took with him during the HH days. Any opinions on that so far?
Omegus wrote: Yes, there is one guy with 10 pearls, and he is by far the only one to have anywhere near that many.
The old Angels of Death codex is reprinted verbatim in the new codex, nothing has changed. The garrison was relatively small, less than one company, yet people automatically assume half of the Chapter went traitor.
Fair enough that he has the most, but Asmodai has 3 already and it doesn't really mention if he is particularly special in his success. After 10,000 years if this rate is anything like consistent then there must have been way more Fallen. OR, GW's military numbers game is yet again coming up short
Also if there was only 1 company defending, why did Jonson decide to try an assassination strike against Luther, rather than a mass drop against all the cathedrals? The implication is again that this was done to save his own troops from excessive losses, but if he had almost a whole legion in orbit it would have been easier to just use overkill.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
If you wanted to have a Fallen Chaos army you'd probably take one or two Fallen characters who have assembled units from other sources into a warband, the Fallen don't team up a lot. At most you could make a small Terminator or Chosen squad of Fallen, but that'd be pretty rare, I'd stick to just characters if I were you.
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There was more than 1 company that went traitor on Caliban. It includes a whole bunch of initiates that were being trained on the planet too.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
If you read the HH Dark Angels books, you know that
Spoiler:
there were thousands of marines on the planet. There were only a few hundred sent back from the front lines of fighting, but they were there for over half a century training and converting new marines.
The success rate they were seeing was around 98%, which was far better than any other chapter could attain.
It also stated that, under Luther's and Zahariel's leadership, they had the process and training down to only taking 2 years. The newest marines trained before the fallout (in the thousands) were not sent out to join with the rest of the legion. Add in the large companies of dragoons(guardsmen) on the planet, and the scout chapter that they talk about, and there are far more than 100 marines there.
All that being said, many of the marines died in the fight with the Lion and his troops, and the ensuing explosion of the planet.
Also worth noting - the DA that turned against Lion elJonson did not do it for Chaos, they did it because they thought he abandoned them, and rightly so - because he did.
The turning to Chaos was actually the native Calabanite Dark Angels trying to control what was basically a chaos god that lived inside their planet. THey were not trying to use this power for nefarious means, but to protect their people.
TLDR: Everyone involved was doing what they thought was right, most of them were misguided. If there would have been less secrets kept by the Lion, there would have been no split in the DA.
rigeld2 wrote: Now go ahead and take that out of context to make me look like a fool.
. This is just for future reference and to have the fluff set in stone for when its time to actually build the army.
1W OL 1D
Its been 10, 000 years. More than enough time for another dirty secret to be added to the Dark Angels legend.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
Tzeentch Daemons 2000pts 
Kabal of the Sundering Strike 2500pts
Eldar Corsairs 750pts 
400pts Corregidor/Nomads 
300pts Yu Jing 
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
