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Which of these units is harder to kill on the tabletop.

Destroyer Lord, 2+ save leading 6 Wraiths, 3 coils

Or

Destroyer Lord, 2+ save, res orb leading 10 Triarch Praetorians with particle casters and void blades.


The first unit has 3+ invulnerable saves and the Destroyer Lord can tank missile shots.

The second unit has 3+ armor save and a 4+ WBB. The Destroyer Lord can still tank non ap 1-2 shots.

In assault the first unit has lots of str 6 rending attacks while the second unit has a lot of str 5 rending and entropic strike attacks.

Of course the first unit is 400pts and the second unit is 590, but points aren't an option.

Which unit is superior? Wraiths by far. But tougher.... Praetorians because of 10 to 6 in numbers.

It really depends on what is shooting at you. If small arms fire, the Praetorians are more survivable due to T5, 3+ and 4++. If heavy duty fire (i.e. missiles, plasmas, lascannons, etc.), then I would say the wraiths even though they risk insta-death.

Also, taking into consideration the fact that for the price of DL+Triarchs, you can get D-Lord + 11 wraiths, and I'd say its a no-brainer.

Alright will go with the unit being the same points cost which means you have 11 wraiths and D-Lord vs. 10 Praetorians and D-Lord with res orb.

When we shoot at the unit, the D-lords will most likely tank the shots until a few 1's are rolled. Let's ignore the tanking for now. Let's say each unit takes 20 wounds from shooting and the D-Lords are out of position. These wounds can come from Scatter lasers (which seems plausible) and doesn't cause instant death to the Wraiths.

20 saves for the wraiths means 6.6 wounds get through. you kill 3 wraiths and put a wound on a 4th. The Praetorians take 3.3 wounds after WBB rolls and you kill 3 Praetorians.

It looks pretty even to me.

If any wounds are str 8 or higher the Wraiths start to lose out big time.

If the wounds are ap3 or less then the Praetorians start to lose out, but which type of wound are you most likely to see?

With psybolt Grey Knights, mobs of fearless Zombies, Banner of Devastation bolter fire it looks like you would most likely see high AP volume of fire.

In combat the 11 Wraiths have 44 str 6 rending attacks and the 10 Praetorians have 30 str 5 rending attacks. They also have 10 str 6 pistol shots at 12". Not as big a difference as first thought.

Both units are fearless and move 12" while the Wraiths ignore cover the Praetorians are smaller and can be hidden from LOS easier.

I've been mulling this over for quite a bit and I'm not to sure there is such a big difference between the two. It appears the Praetorians are a little more durable for what you expect to see across from you while the Wraiths hit a little harder in assault, but have no gun to shoot.

I would be very interested to try out replacing the Wraiths with Preatorians and seeing if the difference is neglible or not.

The difference comes at plasma. With plasma spam being more common, wiping most of a pretorian squad should be easy while wraiths laugh at it.

Also, whip coils are godlike and are a HUGE boost in melee.

Praetorians have a 4+ WBB vs. Plasma plus anything they can get from cover. Where do we see plasma spam? IG vets with 3 guns? Command squads with 4 guns?

Which is more common. Plasma or str 8 in an army?

I'll grant that the Wraiths invulnerable save is superior in close combat with a monsterous creature and those whip coils can make all the difference when the enemy strikes at initiative 1.

We will also see ravenwing and dark angels spamming plasma me thinks.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Which of these units is harder to kill on the tabletop.

Destroyer Lord, 2+ save leading 6 Wraiths, 3 coils

Or

Destroyer Lord, 2+ save, res orb leading 10 Triarch Praetorians with particle casters and void blades.


The first unit has 3+ invulnerable saves and the Destroyer Lord can tank missile shots.

The second unit has 3+ armor save and a 4+ WBB. The Destroyer Lord can still tank non ap 1-2 shots.

In assault the first unit has lots of str 6 rending attacks while the second unit has a lot of str 5 rending and entropic strike attacks.

Of course the first unit is 400pts and the second unit is 590, but points aren't an option.

Darth,

ShadarLogoth has done some numbers on this comparison here
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/540/480149.page On that page, and the one after it I believe. It's worth taking a look at. I would sift through it, ignoring Necronlord3's posts, for the most part.

Thanks. I didn't know about that series of posts. Very helpful.

I don't play Necrons, but I play against them a lot. I've faced both wraiths and praetorians quite a bit, and they are both very scary and very killy. I would say I don't like seeing the praetorians more though. They can shoot you with those staffs that are either ap 1 or 2, I don't remember, before charging in and whacking you with those same ap 1/2 sticks. I'll take the chance that wraiths will rend over the surety of the staff killing me, thank you.

The wraiths would be better. A 3 up invuln is nothing to laugh at. And like many people said everyone is starting to spam plasma.

Thanks

whynotboth.mp4

Plasma is more common than missile launching. Recently i battled with my 15 Wraiths vs IG with 3 Executioners in an RTT and steamrolled IG. Wraiths are rather resilient vs plasma. In my local meta its a nobrainer, Wraiths all the way.

Sasori linked the math but it basically breaks down to TPs being more resilient against S6 and worse, and equal to or more resilient against S8 or better, depending on cover. Plasma is the only weapon profile that clearly favors the Wraiths. So if your opponent has more Plasma then they have Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Missles, Laz Cannons, etc, then the Wraiths will tend to be more hardy, although that seems highly unlikely. Wraiths have clear advantages in CC if their Whips are still alive, but in terms of reaching CC TPs, particularly with a Res Orb, have a pretty distinct advantage.

In CC TPs tend to have the advantage against AP 4 or worse, while Wraiths tend to have an advantage against AP 3 or better.