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I have a few really, super basic questions about Warmachine and Hordes. As I'm sure you'll be able to tell, I've never played either but am interested.

1) Is this game a skirmish game?

2) How important is terrain? What style is the terrain (sci-fi, fantasy)?

3) What size is the board?

4) I know people refer to it as Warmahordes, but how compatible are the two games? Let's say I have 5 friends who want to play, but 3 want to play a faction from Warmachine while 2 want to play a faction from Hordes. Is this literally no problem at all? Or will compatibility/balance issues crop up?

Thanks in advance - sorry for the noob questions.

 Tangent wrote:
I have a few really, super basic questions about Warmachine and Hordes. As I'm sure you'll be able to tell, I've never played either but am interested.

1) Is this game a skirmish game?

Not quite. While you won't have nearly the number of models on the table that you would in a game of WHFB or 40K.

Usual model numbers for a regularly sized game (35 to 50 points), will vary between 10 and 50 models.

 Tangent wrote:

2) How important is terrain? What style is the terrain (sci-fi, fantasy)?

Extremely important I would say. The game revolves around positioning and manoeuvring so terrain is a very big part of it.

The game has a steam-punk theme so fantasy terrain will fit in better than sci-fi terrain.

 Tangent wrote:

3) What size is the board?

48"x48"

 Tangent wrote:

4) I know people refer to it as Warmahordes, but how compatible are the two games? Let's say I have 5 friends who want to play, but 3 want to play a faction from Warmachine while 2 want to play a faction from Hordes. Is this literally no problem at all? Or will compatibility/balance issues crop up?

The fact that people call it Warmahordes should be your first clue.

Both games have the exact same rules with the exception of the way how Warjacks are controlled by Warcasters in Warmachine vs the way that Warlocks control their Warbeasts (the Focus vs Fury mechanics), every other rule in both games is exactly the same.

There aren't any blatant balance issues between both games. Some units / models are stronger than others but not to an extent that player skill can't compensate for it. On the same note: some factions are easier to pick up than others due to their strengths being easier to take advantage of, but again that is something that your playgroup will find will balance out once your game knowledge increases...

 Tangent wrote:
I have a few really, super basic questions about Warmachine and Hordes. As I'm sure you'll be able to tell, I've never played either but am interested.

1) Is this game a skirmish game?

"Yes?" I mean define Skirmish. People tend to classify it as one and It certainly is at lower points levels. However the board can get pretty busy at high points. At 35-50 points you're probably looking at total of about 15-30 models per side depending. Less for hordes or a 'Jack heavy player, more for any kind of Cryx spam list.

2) How important is terrain? What style is the terrain (sci-fi, fantasy)?

Terrain is very important and it can be varied. You can play typical fantasy style terrain (Grass, Simple Brick & Wooden Houses) if you've got a board set out in the country, straight steampunk for a more urban setting and anything in between. Generally I find you just get some level of "Outdoors" rocks, trees, hills etc..

Certain sci-fi pieces certainly could work. The Iosans have a very smooth/white feel with energy all over the place. I find the general Cryx aesthetic would probably blend well with anything metal that glows green.

3) What size is the board?

4'x4' typically. They've released some rules for playing on 6'x4' for absurdly high-points games.

4) I know people refer to it as Warmahordes, but how compatible are the two games? Let's say I have 5 friends who want to play, but 3 want to play a faction from Warmachine while 2 want to play a faction from Hordes. Is this literally no problem at all? Or will compatibility/balance issues crop up?

Thanks in advance - sorry for the noob questions.

They are basically the exact same game. There is literally no problem in having mixed factions, and pretty much all events tournaments mix the two. The only real difference is that all the "Hordes" factions are clustered around the wild factions and use fleshy beasts that generate spell points, while the "Warmachine" factions are the developed nation states that use giant robots that need to be fed spell points.

The difference in how the spell points work means there are some general similarities in how factions within 1 "Game" tend to build their lists and what parts of their list do the heavy lifting, however it isn't a balance issue.

I guess my main question about the balance was centered around whether or not the two games possibly use a different point standard. Meaning, a Warjack with a certain statline will be worth 10 points in Warmachine, while a Warbeast in Hordes with the same statline will be 8 points or something.

 Tangent wrote:
I guess my main question about the balance was centered around whether or not the two games possibly use a different point standard. Meaning, a Warjack with a certain statline will be worth 10 points in Warmachine, while a Warbeast in Hordes with the same statline will be 8 points or something.

They use the same points standard a 35pt game is a 35pt game. However beasts tend to be more expensive for a similar or even slightly lower base Statline.. Attack Power, Health, etc.. for a few reasons:

1) Beasts give you resources, not consume them.
2) Beasts can run "Hot" beyond what their caster can normally manage. They may wind up frenzying if you do this. This is a risk but not even an option warjacks have.
3) Beasts come with more goodies: They can generally make more attacks, they get their own little mini-spells to cast. They generally have better access to power attacks.
4) Beasts are easier to heal.

On a very broad basis it's fair to say that beasts are a more important part of a hordes army than 'Jacks are in a Warmachine army. Because of this you tend to pay a bit more and get a bit more model-per-model, even if the statlines are simliar. That said this is sort of a general statement not a hard and fast rule, there are some damn cheap beasts and expensive 'Jacks. There are throwaway beasts and 'Jacks you can build lists around.

1) Yes, it is. You'll find most armies consist of between 5 and 50 models in standard game sizes.

2) Terrain makes a mug difference to the game, but how much you play with depends very much on your group. Generally you don't want terrain to be super dense, to make playing and moving a little easier (especially with the large stuff on 120mm bases). I generally play with a couple of forests, 3-4 pieces of blocking terrain (huts or rocky outcrops), a few short wall segments, often a small water feature and sometimes a hill. Some people would consider that dense for the game, however.

3) Standard board is 4x4.

4)literally no problem at all - the games are 100% compatible, and they're basically only different because of the way Warbeasts and Warjacks work with their Warlock/Caster. The only thing I'll warn you about is that, while you're still learning the game Hordes armies will *feel* a bit stronger, because there's a bit more flexibility and power in the FURY system than the FOCUS system. However, the warmachine side has many other advantages that balance it out, and tournament results bear out that both sides of the games are pretty well balanced.

Only thing to add here is that you can read the basic rules of the game for free.

Here is a link to the starter rules for both games (it goes over the basics and gets you started)

http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game

As for the main rules, I've read that there is a Prime book and a Primal book. If the rules are the same, what is the difference between the two books? Do I probably need both to play, or do I only need the one that encompasses the faction I choose?

 Tangent wrote:
As for the main rules, I've read that there is a Prime book and a Primal book. If the rules are the same, what is the difference between the two books? Do I probably need both to play, or do I only need the one that encompasses the faction I choose?

The difference between the two books is WM has Focus, and Hordes has Fury, the mechanic is a bit different. To the question about needing both books, the answer is absolutely NOT.

And when you buy a model, it comes with all of the rules to use it on the card, right?

I'm assuming, though, that if you want to engage in serious list building, you would need to buy the faction book so that you have all of that information collected and right in front of you so you can mix and match. Otherwise, you wouldn't know what a model does on the table before you bought it.

 Tangent wrote:
And when you buy a model, it comes with all of the rules to use it on the card, right?

I'm assuming, though, that if you want to engage in serious list building, you would need to buy the faction book so that you have all of that information collected and right in front of you so you can mix and match. Otherwise, you wouldn't know what a model does on the table before you bought it.

Yes, all the models come with their cards with the rules for that particular model in them.

You can buy the faction book + expansion books (there are 2 for Warmachine so far and 1 for Hordes with the second coming out in March), or if you have an iSomething or Android device, you can buy your faction deck for their app (WarRoom), that comes with all the cards for that particular faction.

 Tangent wrote:
And when you buy a model, it comes with all of the rules to use it on the card, right?

I'm assuming, though, that if you want to engage in serious list building, you would need to buy the faction book so that you have all of that information collected and right in front of you so you can mix and match. Otherwise, you wouldn't know what a model does on the table before you bought it.

Yes you get a model with the rules card. The book can be helpful for list-building but it's not required. You can browse the PP Forums as the stickies there give you a really good idea of what the pieces do and how they fit in a list. Personally I'd grab the faction book(s) the fluff is nice if a bit silly and overwritten and the painting guides are helpful, they also make for good bathroom material.

Keep in mind that the way PP release schedule works they release a handful of models for every faction, every year. This means that the faction book doesn't contain anything after MkII initially launched and the remainder would be detailed in the book that went with that batch of releases. There haven't been a ton so far just Domination/Wrath Colossals & Gargantuans coming up. You probably wont' find any need to expand beyond the core stuff for some time, just keep in mind going forward that the faction book is no the -definitive- model list.

So this is the hordes book: http://www.amazon.com/Hordes-Primal-Mk-II/dp/1933362669/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358871219&sr=8-2&keywords=primal+mk+II

And this is the Warmachine book: http://www.amazon.com/Warmachine-Prime-MKll-Matt-Wilson/dp/1933362545/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358871241&sr=8-2&keywords=warmachine+prime

What is Warmachine: Prime Remix?

 Tangent wrote:
So this is the hordes book: http://www.amazon.com/Hordes-Primal-Mk-II/dp/1933362669/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358871219&sr=8-2&keywords=primal+mk+II

And this is the Warmachine book: http://www.amazon.com/Warmachine-Prime-MKll-Matt-Wilson/dp/1933362545/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358871241&sr=8-2&keywords=warmachine+prime

What is Warmachine: Prime Remix?

Prime MKII is what you want.

You dont need the faction books. You can buy the decks for $18 and it has all the cards. Or you can go online and find most of the info,

For list building...

http://www.forwardkommander.com/ is fantastic and free.

 darefsky wrote:

You dont need the faction books. You can buy the decks for $18 and it has all the cards.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

The faction decks only have all the cards for the models released during MK I! Even the faction books will have some units that aren't present in the faction decks.

 Tangent wrote:
So this is the hordes book: http://www.amazon.com/Hordes-Primal-Mk-II/dp/1933362669/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358871219&sr=8-2&keywords=primal+mk+II

And this is the Warmachine book: http://www.amazon.com/Warmachine-Prime-MKll-Matt-Wilson/dp/1933362545/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358871241&sr=8-2&keywords=warmachine+prime

What is Warmachine: Prime Remix?

Prime Remix was a late revision to the first edition of the rules, it's no longer relevant.

Ok, so, to recap...

If you play Warmachine, you need Prime Mk 2. If you play Hordes, you need Primal Mk 2.

For your faction, each model comes with a card and that's all that's required to play. However, for list building, the most current rules for each model can be found in the faction book, and any models that are released after the faction book have their rules and stats contained within the book released with that batch of models.

Right?

 Tangent wrote:
Ok, so, to recap...

If you play Warmachine, you need Prime Mk 2. If you play Hordes, you need Primal Mk 2.

For your faction, each model comes with a card and that's all that's required to play. However, for list building, the most current rules for each model can be found in the faction book, and any models that are released after the faction book have their rules and stats contained within the book released with that batch of models.

Right?

Your understanding is correct. Spoilers usually crop up for new models around release time too, so if you sniff around you can find info that way as well.

 Tangent wrote:
Ok, so, to recap...

If you play Warmachine, you need Prime Mk 2. If you play Hordes, you need Primal Mk 2.

For your faction, each model comes with a card and that's all that's required to play. However, for list building, the most current rules for each model can be found in the faction book, and any models that are released after the faction book have their rules and stats contained within the book released with that batch of models.

Right?

Yep, that's pretty much the basics of it. Granted, there's errata for some models, but more often than not it's for clarification purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Argh, you beat me to it Chongara.

 Tangent wrote:
Ok, so, to recap...

If you play Warmachine, you need Prime Mk 2. If you play Hordes, you need Primal Mk 2.

For your faction, each model comes with a card and that's all that's required to play. However, for list building, the most current rules for each model can be found in the faction book, and any models that are released after the faction book have their rules and stats contained within the book released with that batch of models.

Right?

This is all correct. As a note, rather than the book, if you have an Android or iOS device, you can use an applicaiton called War Room. It costs money as in-app purchases for the decks for each Faction, but if you put down $60, you get the cards for every single model so far released in the game and which will be kept up to date for the the lifetime of the edition. It may not be best for some of its other billed things, but for a reference program it is pretty damned handy and saves a good chunk of money since it gives you the rules for both systems, and all sorts of models in one place for a fraction of how much all the books cost. The full decklist and a copy of Prime/Primal is a fairly nice ever-expanding investment IMHO.

And stuff.

 Blaque wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
Ok, so, to recap...

If you play Warmachine, you need Prime Mk 2. If you play Hordes, you need Primal Mk 2.

For your faction, each model comes with a card and that's all that's required to play. However, for list building, the most current rules for each model can be found in the faction book, and any models that are released after the faction book have their rules and stats contained within the book released with that batch of models.

Right?

This is all correct. As a note, rather than the book, if you have an Android or iOS device, you can use an applicaiton called War Room. It costs money as in-app purchases for the decks for each Faction, but if you put down $60, you get the cards for every single model so far released in the game and which will be kept up to date for the the lifetime of the edition. It may not be best for some of its other billed things, but for a reference program it is pretty damned handy and saves a good chunk of money since it gives you the rules for both systems, and all sorts of models in one place for a fraction of how much all the books cost. The full decklist and a copy of Prime/Primal is a fairly nice ever-expanding investment IMHO.

And stuff.

War Room is pretty good. It's not perfect but nowhere near as bad as the whining chorus would make it seem. Even just for the rules-reference it's worth getting as it's far quicker than looking things up in a book.

 Tangent wrote:
I have a few really, super basic questions about Warmachine and Hordes. As I'm sure you'll be able to tell, I've never played either but am interested.

1) Is this game a skirmish game?

Its kind of an inbetween game. It can be full sized battles, but the rules get clunky. At the typical point level of 35-50 points it is a skirmish type game.

2) How important is terrain? What style is the terrain (sci-fi, fantasy)?

Very important. A inconveniently placed forest can throw a real snag into your battleplans, or your opponents.

Warmahordes is a Steampunk game. So fantesy is more appropriate, but some machinery is nice.

3) What size is the board?

4x4 for normal sized games. At 100 pts you will probably move to a 4x6.

4) I know people refer to it as Warmahordes, but how compatible are the two games? Let's say I have 5 friends who want to play, but 3 want to play a faction from Warmachine while 2 want to play a faction from Hordes. Is this literally no problem at all? Or will compatibility/balance issues crop up?

Thanks in advance - sorry for the noob questions.

The only difference is how magic works. The games are 100% compatable.


Focus(warmachine) is most commonly compared to spending Cash. Fury is like a Credit Card.

With Focus, your Warcaster generates a certain amount each turn and you use it to power your warjacks, cast spells, and other stuff.

Fury is generated when a Warbeast does something, like charge or make an attack. At the beginning of each turn, a Warlock reaves the Fury off his Beasts. Up to his maximum. If Fury is left on a Warbeast it has to test for Frenzy. If it fails the test, it attacked the closest model with one attack and then it burns up any amount of the Fury that was on it.

So leaving your warbeasts with Fury on them can result in you losing control of your beast for a turn, or you may retain control but it still has Fury on it. meaning it can't do as much stuff this turn.

Another thing to consider is that, if your warbeasts are all dead, you have no way to generate more Fury. Except by Cutting. Which is exactly what it sounds like. A warlock can do damage to himself to generate Fury.



Overall, Fury is more powerful early game. Focus is more powerful late game. A warmachine player facing hordes can play an attrition game and try to kill all the enemy Warbeasts, and his Warcaster will be sitting pretty generating new Focus each turn while the enemy Warlock is forced to cut himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It can be said that the Fury mechanic is slightly better than Focus because the Downside to overspending your Fury isn't as bad as it should be.

I can just charge a warbeast in, max out my Fury, and not care if I frenzy because i'll just hit an enemy model. Or I'll have assassinated the enemy Warlock/Warcaster and it doesn't matter.

As opposed to Warmachine where a Warjack can recieve a maximum of 3 focus.

Great, thanks a ton, guys. It sounds like a lot of fun! Now it's time to figure out which faction I'd be interested in collecting... As an aside, I recently bought the Dr. Arkadius model to use in my "mad scientist" CSM 40k list alongside Fabius Bile. What faction does he belong to, and is he any good?

 Tangent wrote:
Great, thanks a ton, guys. It sounds like a lot of fun! Now it's time to figure out which faction I'd be interested in collecting... As an aside, I recently bought the Dr. Arkadius model to use in my "mad scientist" CSM 40k list alongside Fabius Bile. What faction does he belong to, and is he any good?

He works for the Thornfall Alliance minions pact and is a fine piece. However, the Thornfall Alliance is an extremely narrow mini-faction that really isn't a good place for a beginner to start. It's really just a way of throwing the various pig-themed minions (pieces that normally work for other hordes factions) together in sub-100pts games. If you're looking to start, go for one of the main factions:

Warmachine:
*Cygnar
*Khador
*Retribution of Scryah
*Protectorate of Menoth
*Cryx

Hordes
*Trollbloods
*Circle of Orobos
*Skrone
*Legion of Everblight.


The mercenary contracts & minions pacts are things that can be played on their own, but they just aren't a great place to start.

 Tangent wrote:
Great, thanks a ton, guys. It sounds like a lot of fun! Now it's time to figure out which faction I'd be interested in collecting... As an aside, I recently bought the Dr. Arkadius model to use in my "mad scientist" CSM 40k list alongside Fabius Bile. What faction does he belong to, and is he any good?

He is of the Hordes Minions. Minions are mercenaries for Hordes factions. they're not a true faction. as a general guide (trust me, its a little bit more complicated that what im saying here - this is the discovery channel answer) they're a collection of models that can fight as either part of 2 subfactions IWarpigs, and Gatormen - although there is little to no overlap - to all intents and purposes, they're separate and unique subfaction), or they can be hired out by the major factions, assuming they're willing to work for them. For example, i play Circle as a Hordes faction (and Khador), and the totem hunter is a minion that i can take as part of a circle list. However, minion warbeasts can on;ly be used by minion warlocks.

Arcadius works for the thornfall alliance, which is a barbaric assortment of warmongeric, barbaric pigmen (called Farrow) and hulking Porcine monsters, led by an amusing, yet deluded and probably psychopathic Conan the Boar-barian called Lord Carver (note the bacon puns) that seek to carve (ba-dum tish!) out a realm for themselves and prove their mettle against the other races. they're a faction that uses scavenged weapons, and likes to hit hard. however, as a sub-faction rather than a true faction, their selection of models is rather limited - there are only 3 farrow warlocks - Arcadius, Lord Carver and Sturm&Drang (interesting two-headed porcine centaur thingy). they're workable, and fun so dont worry.

that said, what are you looking for in a faction?

Ahh, I see.

As for what to play, I'm more interested in models and less interested in playstyles, and for models I always like dark and evil. I'm also a fan of hulking, brutish monsters, and I'm kinda into "natural" monsters (like trolls for instance). From what I've read, I think I would be more interested in the "natural" side of Hordes and less interested in the machine side of Warmachine.

Also, I'm assuming Iron Kingdoms is totally separate?

 Tangent wrote:
Ahh, I see.

As for what to play, I'm more interested in models and less interested in playstyles, and for models I always like dark and evil. I'm also a fan of hulking, brutish monsters, and I'm kinda into "natural" monsters (like trolls for instance). From what I've read, I think I would be more interested in the "natural" side of Hordes and less interested in the machine side of Warmachine.

Also, I'm assuming Iron Kingdoms is totally separate?

The Iron Kingdoms is a specific area within the setting that Warmachine/Hordes takes place in. This includes Khador, Cygnar, The Protectorate (A former part of Cygnar) and two countries with relatively minor represented in the Wargame: Ord & Llael (currently occupied by Khador).

Iron Kingdoms is also the name they give to the RPG they produce as it takes place and features characters from those parts of the setting.

As to "Dark & Evil" with "Hulking Brutish Monsters" you're probably looking at Skorne. As while Dire Trolls are hulking Trollbloods are probably the closest things to acutal "Good Guys" in the game.

Circle, Legion & Skrone are all arguably dark and Legion & Skrone are certainly evil. However Circle beasts aren't all that hulking for the most part and Legion is really more about alien anatomy and general weirdness than being brutish.

This leaves the Skrone. Godless lizard-men from the desert, with roman names, samurai armor that think torture is just peachy-keen and field giant elephants for warbeasts. They're plenty evil and have plenty of hulking, brutish pieces. If that's your thing.

Here's a decent breakdown of the alignments in warmahordes.

Actually, I think I'm drawn more to Cryx and Everblight now that I've have a chance to look at more of the models. Circle, also. Skorne, not so much - though, to be honest, that might just be the paint scheme. It's a little too bright for my tastes on the PP site, and a darker, more menacing paint scheme might fit the bill better for me.

I plan on doing my Skorne with black as the primary color with silver trim, cloth will either be black or dark purple.

The black will be given an ardcoat sealent to make it shiny. Giving it a laquered look.