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Mo' Minis, Mo' Kickstarters!

Iron Wind is having a KS for some Spectral LAM mechs to be made.

However I'm no battle tech player but this sounds a tad expensive. $30 for one mini. Even if you got the bundled set thats still $22-24 a mini. Looking at Iron Wind's site, most minis dont even go above $15. However any hardcore players or collectors of metal mech minis may feel free to correct me

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams?ref=category

Pewter Waneta, Yurei and Pwwkt Spectral LAM mechs in ground, hybrid and air modes from Iron Wind Metals - designed by Stephen Huda

Stephen Huda designed 3-D versions of the Waneta, Yurei and Pwwkt LAMs and made them available to Iron Wind Metals to produce. You can see Stephen's work at http://stephenhuda.deviantart.com/art/Waneta-LAM-Fighter-287058569.

We have been experimenting with using 3-D printed versions of CAD designed Mechs to produce pewter - that's right pewter - not plastic - minis. Stephen generously offered these designs to us.

Until recently, the quality of 3-D printed sculpts was significantly worse than what our sculptors could make by hand. And the cost was much, much higher. Although still several times more expensive, the quality is now up to our standards.

Here is a picture of the Waneta LAM ground version, in metal. It stands about 48mm tall to the top of the cockpit (about chest high to our Atlas model).

You my be getting two mechs (air and ground) per pack, hence the double fee. Haven't checked the kickstarter but that's my guess.

 Marrak wrote:
You my be getting two mechs (air and ground) per pack, hence the double fee. Haven't checked the kickstarter but that's my guess.

Nope, its one mini

If you get all 3 variants of one mini its $70 (little less than 24 per mini)

The $255 level gets you all 3 modes of the 3 LAM minis, for a total of 9 minis...a bit over $28 each. That is expensive, even for metal Battletech minis.

I iwsh them luck, Battletech was my introduction to mini gaming, and I still think its pretty cool.

 Mad4Minis wrote:
The $255 level gets you all 3 modes of the 3 LAM minis, for a total of 9 minis...a bit over $28 each. That is expensive, even for metal Battletech minis.

I iwsh them luck, Battletech was my introduction to mini gaming, and I still think its pretty cool.

If you want JUST the minis then go for the $185 pledge. Gives you all 9 minis for about $20.50 each

Honestly I think they are OVER CHARGING for Signatures/"Bragging Rights" Project Backer title which is what the $255 gives you (yes, totally gonna want my name on a website to show I paid more money for these minis than other backers for no real extra benefit)

I think Iron Wind really needs to look at other Kickstarters to see how to properly create pledge levels

$185: Ground, Hybrid and Air modes of all 3 models (Waneta, Yurei and Pwwkt) in special project packaging (9 minis - less than $22 each). Listing as project backer on Iron Wind Web Site

$255: Ground, Hybrid and Air modes of all 3 models (Waneta, Yurei and Pwwkt) in special project packaging autographed by the Iron Wind Crew (9 minis). Listing as Silver Project Backer on Iron Wind Web Site

Oh and btw keep in mind that these are US only

Too rich for my tastes.

Especially as the cheapest you can get all the minis is at 185. The pledge levels all indicate US Only (Classic IWM Support for aussies) Despite them saying that you can contact them to work it out.

Most of the extra cost seems to be the "Backer Level" that you get on their website. And unless there is some kind of ongoing discount associated with that. There is nothing here to interest me, despite how awesome the miniatures look.

On top of that the usual "Fan Funding" model these guys usually use produces a full run of miniatures for the supporters. And they are still metal miniatures, despite the funding goal.

Boggles the mind.

Iron Wind should be doing Kickstarters every 6 months to plough through the range of missing minis that they have neither the time nor money to fund themselves. And yes, I know IWM is like a 3 person operation servicing a model line for a game as old as time itself, so have a lot on their shoulders, but with a good KS result they could hire a few extra casters to share the load.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Iron Wind should be doing Kickstarters every 6 months to plough through the range of missing minis that they have neither the time nor money to fund themselves. And yes, I know IWM is like a 3 person operation servicing a model line for a game as old as time itself, so have a lot on their shoulders, but with a good KS result they could hire a few extra casters to share the load.

Oh I guess that explains the $25k funding goal

I mean that seems a lot for 9 models which looks like they already have the ability to make

They are rather large hunks of metal - the price points are not really out of line with other metal figures of comparable size.

The old Battletech minis are a bit misleading in terms of prices. Due to their age - all the costs other than actual casting have been recovered and IWM is one of those nicer companies who actually pass savings on to their customers.

If you look at other figures from other companies of comparable sizes - you generally end up paying $20-25 unless you are dealing with a small boutique or one of the high dollar manufacturers (GW, PP, Corvus Belli...). With those guys - you would probably see a price tag upwards of $60 or more.

Not really interested in helping IWM anymore. They've had all the original LAMs funded for a few years now, but they still haven't been released. Their track record of quality for the last year or two has also really been hit or miss.

It's a problem with scale as well. Some of the newer kits were just huge. They look terrible on a map, and the scale is completely out the window.

I might be interested if they weren't metal......

 cincydooley wrote:
I might be interested if they weren't metal......

Well gee the company is called "Iron Wind Metals"

I really want to do this one. I am a fan of all things LAM, so will want these. Shame the others aren't out yet, that is the only thing holding me back.

 kenshin620 wrote:
Well gee the company is called "Iron Wind Metals"

That and nothing came of Catalyst's multi-part plastic kits (of which they made only two).

If they wanted to do a real Kickstarter, they could do one for completely multi-part kits for the original invading Clan 'Mechs. Start with, say, one from each weight bracket (Dasher, Nova, Mad Cat, Warhawk) and they'd be complete plastic kits with enough parts to make any of the current variants. As the KS grows, they add in a new one, until all 15 (I believe it was 15) are done. Then for little boost goals they can have things like "plastic Elemental sprue" and stuff like that.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I really want to do this one. I am a fan of all things LAM, so will want these. Shame the others aren't out yet, that is the only thing holding me back.

That and the $180 just to get the set of 3 mechs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:
Well gee the company is called "Iron Wind Metals"

That and nothing came of Catalyst's multi-part plastic kits (of which they made only two).

If they wanted to do a real Kickstarter, they could do one for completely multi-part kits for the original invading Clan 'Mechs. Start with, say, one from each weight bracket (Dasher, Nova, Mad Cat, Warhawk) and they'd be complete plastic kits with enough parts to make any of the current variants. As the KS grows, they add in a new one, until all 15 (I believe it was 15) are done. Then for little boost goals they can have things like "plastic Elemental sprue" and stuff like that.

IMO this is where Catalyst checked out of CBT. It looks like they had good plans to bring the game back into the mainstream with the plastic kits. But for whatever reason they put all that effort into leviathans and basically just maintain the BT license to keep it from changing hands, again.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:
Well gee the company is called "Iron Wind Metals"

That and nothing came of Catalyst's multi-part plastic kits (of which they made only two).

If they wanted to do a real Kickstarter, they could do one for completely multi-part kits for the original invading Clan 'Mechs. Start with, say, one from each weight bracket (Dasher, Nova, Mad Cat, Warhawk) and they'd be complete plastic kits with enough parts to make any of the current variants. As the KS grows, they add in a new one, until all 15 (I believe it was 15) are done. Then for little boost goals they can have things like "plastic Elemental sprue" and stuff like that.

I agree whole heartedly. On top of that the test mechs were two of the least popular clan mechs. I cant think of anybody
who would field more than 1 at a time, yet they forced you to buy 2 at a time. If they had made a plastic mad cat + vulture as the first tests, they would still be making them.

NecronLord3 wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I really want to do this one. I am a fan of all things LAM, so will want these. Shame the others aren't out yet, that is the only thing holding me back.

That and the $180 just to get the set of 3 mechs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:
Well gee the company is called "Iron Wind Metals"

That and nothing came of Catalyst's multi-part plastic kits (of which they made only two).

If they wanted to do a real Kickstarter, they could do one for completely multi-part kits for the original invading Clan 'Mechs. Start with, say, one from each weight bracket (Dasher, Nova, Mad Cat, Warhawk) and they'd be complete plastic kits with enough parts to make any of the current variants. As the KS grows, they add in a new one, until all 15 (I believe it was 15) are done. Then for little boost goals they can have things like "plastic Elemental sprue" and stuff like that.

IMO this is where Catalyst checked out of CBT. It looks like they had good plans to bring the game back into the mainstream with the plastic kits. But for whatever reason they put all that effort into leviathans and basically just maintain the BT license to keep it from changing hands, again.

Well the game is currently effectively run by a small group of fans on the forum, who are very used to having their own way. At this point they have effectively bullied catalyst into running in to the ground, and catalyst is treading water on the funds gained from tiny pdf releases. They cant get a print book out on time, and they cant get a boxed set released in the year stamped on the cover (or the mech on the cover, into the boxed set). Which probably means they are perfect for a kickstarter model. You know that isn't coming on time.

I just wish they hadn't chosen models that seem to have been designed with huge "Legally We're Not Anything Like Veritech" signs.

I like the proposed models. The Yurei LAM reminds me of Laserbeak for some reason. All in all I wish the project were a little more ambitious than "Hey give me money to make 15 models for a game long dead."

Hey guys. I have already pledged for this as I love BT (not a dead game BTW). Anyways if you check out this link:

The Road to the Spectral LAM's Kickstarter

It gives a lot of info and explains the costs involved. The reason they are charging more per mini is that pledging will give you access to the miniatures by June/July this year. A general release will follow during the convention season of 2014. Also if you pledge at any level you will be able to buy the miniatures early (not sure of the price point.)

The sculpting cost of BT minis has normally been low as it has all been by hand but as they are using CAD files that cost has gone up to about 2000 per miniature. That is just to edit the existing CAD files into a usable form. I think the change is worth it as the results look a lot more mechanical and less organic than other mechs.

With the success of this KS I hope it will pave the way for more high quality products from IWM and I hope CGL will realize how much money they can raise for a clan box set considering how much IWM is able to raise for mechs that half the BT community don't really care about.

This project isn't remotely building at the rate it needs to to be successful. IWMetals reputation is going to be the ultimate failure of this product. Not to mention the relative small amount of product you get compared to far more successful products being offered for a much lower price. Metal is unfortunately dead and what is left is over priced and low quality.

Well, I guess you could all wait instead for the Robotech minis game kickstarter next month and see if those minis are the same scale and more affordable. At least you'd end up with stuff that looks like the original macross style models that came out.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
This project isn't remotely building at the rate it needs to to be successful. IWMetals reputation is going to be the ultimate failure of this product. Not to mention the relative small amount of product you get compared to far more successful products being offered for a much lower price. Metal is unfortunately dead and what is left is over priced and low quality.

Really? KS projects make most of their money in the first 3 and the last 3 days. They made almost half their goal in the first week. Statistically they have a very high chance of succeeding.

They make most of the money in the last week because the project is fully funded and people start sending money to be the stretch goals and extras. If this project gets funded at all it would be just barely in the last week and there won't be any perks.

I don't care if there is legitimate reasons for the cost. It still is not worth the $25-35 per model price tag for the poor quality IWM is notorious for or their failure to keep up with pRior commitments.

This project was barely half funded at the week mark, and I believe it was closer to 9-10 days before it w half funded and it has barely moved past that. Right now it needs like 1200 small donors or several large donars. We are talking an average of $600-700 coming in per day and it isn't happening.

Well, pricing aside, they look like incredibly ugly veritech ripoffs, not fit to even stand-in for that. I would strongly suggest passing.

keisukekun wrote:
The sculpting cost of BT minis has normally been low as it has all been by hand but as they are using CAD files that cost has gone up to about 2000 per miniature. That is just to edit the existing CAD files into a usable form.

That is ridiculous.

Yeah because the quote for the hand sculpted LAMs was so much more than the CAD versions that they had a ton of fan funded Capitol left over to reinvest.

The CAD versions are much cheaper to produce.

 Cyporiean wrote:

keisukekun wrote:
The sculpting cost of BT minis has normally been low as it has all been by hand but as they are using CAD files that cost has gone up to about 2000 per miniature. That is just to edit the existing CAD files into a usable form.

That is ridiculous.

Just quoting em. They are using a domestic parter for the work and printing down the road from their office so the cost is higher I guess. Honestly I'd rather that than them dealing with someone overseas.

Iron Wind Metals is expensive to begin with. Generally its cheaper to order Battletech Minis from Ral Partha Europe if they have it. Yes Shipping is a bit more but if you combine with friends or wait and do large orders it can really be a significant difference.

I'm not against purchasing from a domestic source, but when their prices feel like gouging I generally avoid them regardless of if its domestic or overseas.

Added to that is the fact that their sculpts have gotten significantly worse than when Battletech first started. They are subject to scale creep badly. Also the designs that catalyst shove out the door as fast as possible to sell more books get uglier and uglier (see miniatures in kickstarter for an example). Once in a while there is something that looks decent, but they are few and far between.

That said typically I buy from the local store to support them, and they order from Alliance, who gets IWM.

IMO this is where Catalyst checked out of CBT. It looks like they had good plans to bring the game back into the mainstream with the plastic kits. But for whatever reason they put all that effort into leviathans and basically just maintain the BT license to keep it from changing hands, again.

I really think this has more to do with the fact that decently priced high quality plastic mini's like the two produced would simply put IWM out of business. I believe IWM and Catalyst while not the same company are run by friends or have some non-competitive contract or something. A set of the 24 most popular IS mechs and 12 most popular Clan mechs done properly in plastic would sell amazingly well. Either as individuals or sets. Of course this would not be conducive to selling TROs with 50 new designs every year or two either.

Perhaps they gave it up to support Leviathans instead. That would be a mistake in my opinion, I've played Leviathans, its not bad, but there are already steampunk ship games that are quite popular around. It brought nothing new that stood out as..... must buy this game. The models are decent, if pricey for injection molded plastic, but they look very much the same be they British or French, and the artwork for the Germans and Italians are.... more of the same. I understand they wanted the 'Leviathans Look'. but it ends up looking very generic.

Well, I guess you could all wait instead for the Robotech minis game kickstarter next month and see if those minis are the same scale and more affordable. At least you'd end up with stuff that looks like the original macross style models that came out.

If you could PM me info for this I would much appreciate it. I of course will be googling it in about 15 seconds, but direct links might help me find it better.

keisukekun wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

keisukekun wrote:
The sculpting cost of BT minis has normally been low as it has all been by hand but as they are using CAD files that cost has gone up to about 2000 per miniature. That is just to edit the existing CAD files into a usable form.

That is ridiculous.

Just quoting em. They are using a domestic parter for the work and printing down the road from their office so the cost is higher I guess. Honestly I'd rather that than them dealing with someone overseas.

Even with printing costs factored into the 'Sculpting Cost', $2k per fig is ridiculous.