Harvard Exam Cheaters Must Get Job To Get Back In

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**WarOne**

I'd say this is a good lesson for some what the real world will be like, especially if they have to fess up in interviews for a job why they're not in Harvard anymore.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/harvard_cheating_punishment_seen_fair

Banished from the cushy ivory tower, scores of cheating Harvard students were sentenced to six months’ hard time in the real world before they can re-apply to the prestigious university.

The punishment came down on 60 crimson students ordered to “withdraw” — a forced break that can only be absolved after the ousted undergrads hold “a full-time, paid, non-academic job in a non-family situation” for at least half a year, dean of the faculty of arts and sciences Michael D. Smith wrote in an email yesterday. After that, the dean added, Harvard will consider letting the students back on campus.

Fellow students welcomed the news of the discipline.

“If they actually cheated, I think its fair,” said Harvard senior Dario Sava. “I think Harvard is pretty  lenient about letting people come back in. There are very few things that will get you kicked out permanently. I don’t know if it’s a good thing, overall, but I think because it’s been their policy, it would be unfair to switch it mid-sentencing.”

The cheating accusations first surfaced in the student newspaper, the Harvard Crimson, in August 2011. The paper reported the cheaters were part of an Introduction to Congress class where 120 students were accused of cutting corners, a figure the university did not dispute.

Smith wrote in his email to students and staff that after an exhaustive effort to hear each case individually, about half the students implicated were asked to withdraw, another half were placed on academic probation and a few students escaped punishment.

“The college reports that somewhat more than half of the Administrative Board cases this past fall required a student to withdraw from the college for a period of time,” Smith wrote. “Of the remaining cases, roughly half the students received disciplinary probation, while the balance ended in no disciplinary action.”

As for working their way back on campus, one student said the damage is done and it’s time to move on.

“You want to give them a second chance,” senior Roy Zhang said. “My immediate thought when it happened was if that many people cheated, there’s got to be something wrong with the system in that class. But at this point, if the school is asking them to withdraw, I feel like that’s a fair punishment.”

**dogma**

I'd say its faculty covering their mutual asses.

**Ouze**

I thought generally you'd be expelled for cheating. I wonder what "cutting corners" actually means. I guess it's like when 1%ers have "financial irregularities" instead of "being thieves". But I think I'd want to know more details on what it was they did exactly.

**SilverMK2**

Ouze wrote:
I thought generally you'd be expelled for cheating. I wonder what "cutting corners" actually means. I guess it's like when 1%ers have "financial irregularities" instead of "being thieves". But I think I'd want to know more details on what it was they did exactly.

I would suggest this is probably the case. Though I too would like to know more. Both universities I have been to have pretty much a zero tollerance policy on any kind of cheating, including plagerism.

**Kanluwen**

The community college I attend has a zero tolerance policy on cheating, but different "levels" of what they consider cheating.

Plagerism?
Cheating...but with a "three strikes" policy in place, so that you do not get automatically expelled if one does not correctly cite a source in an academic paper once.
Paying someone to do your homework/take tests for you? Cheating--with no "three strikes policy" in place, since there's no leeway for an "Oh, I forgot to cite X/Y/Z" accident.

Hell, the college actually required study groups to now meet on campus because of concerns that study groups were becoming "copy groups".

**hotsauceman1**

Man, In my Community college, if you get caught cheating twice, you are never alowed in any college in the county.

**LordofHats**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Man, In my Community college, if you get caught cheating twice, you are never alowed in any college in the county.

When your rich anything can be forgiven so long as you've learned your lesson

**Kanluwen**

LordofHats wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Man, In my Community college, if you get caught cheating twice, you are never allowed in any college in the county.

When your rich anything can be forgiven so long as you've learned your lesson

The statement that hotsauceman is not necessarily the same.
If you get caught cheating twice, it's a bit different than having been part of a mass expulsion of suspected cheaters like we saw here.

I'm kind of puzzled as to why the cheaters were part of just one course (Introduction to Congress? what in the hell is this course anyways?) and what exactly the university considered to be "cutting corners", but it does make me speculate that it is not too different from what I posted about the whole "study groups becoming copy groups" or paying people to do the work for you.

**SilverMK2**

Kanluwen wrote:
(Introduction to Congress? what in the hell is this course anyways?).

I think Introduction to Congress is actually a Companion first year course.

**Grey Templar**

Last quarter in one of my classes one girl got caught copying the answers from a previous quarter's homework onto the current quarters homework.

She got caught because the answers were all wrong

If you're going to cheat, at least get the right answers.

**Palindrome**

Grey Templar wrote:
Last quarter in one of my classes one girl got caught copying the answers from a previous quarter's homework onto the current quarters homework.

She got caught because the answers were all wrong If you're going to cheat, at least get the right answers.

In my final year one of my fellow students was giving a presentation (badly it has to be said) and she had forgotten to remove the wikipedia hyperlinks from her powerpoint.

I actually quite like this 'punishment' but I would add the further stipulation that it must be a minimum wage job and be for the period of 1 year. They can't help but be more rounded individuals if they manage that.

**dogma**

Kanluwen wrote:

Hell, the college actually required study groups to now meet on campus because of concerns that study groups were becoming "copy groups".

That's right, you're not allowed to copy until you get your degree. Then you get to call it a "literature review".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

I'm kind of puzzled as to why the cheaters were part of just one course (Introduction to Congress? what in the hell is this course anyways?)...

In any school with requirements that can be fulfilled by electives the students will gravitate towards what is assumed to require the least effort. If that assumption is invalidated, they will cheat.

**Frazzled**

dogma wrote:
I'd say its faculty covering their mutual asses.

Agree with Dogma actually.

**hotsauceman1**

Kanluwen wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Man, In my Community college, if you get caught cheating twice, you are never allowed in any college in the county.

When your rich anything can be forgiven so long as you've learned your lesson

The statement that hotsauceman is not necessarily the same.
If you get caught cheating twice, it's a bit different than having been part of a mass expulsion of suspected cheaters like we saw here.

I'm kind of puzzled as to why the cheaters were part of just one course (Introduction to Congress? what in the hell is this course anyways?) and what exactly the university considered to be "cutting corners", but it does make me speculate that it is not too different from what I posted about the whole "study groups becoming copy groups" or paying people to do the work for you.

Well that policy came from when we had a huge scandel where 100+ students cheated by Trading money or sex for better grades.

**rubiksnoob**

If they cheat, they should be gone for good, in my opinion.

**Mattman154**

"Daddy?"
"Yes, dear?"
"I need you to pay off this restaurant manager so I don't have to do peasant work."
"Sure thing, Sweety."

**clively**

Cheating or cutting corners in Introduction to Congress?

That's an oxymoron as it sounds like the students were actually doing exactly what was expected...Congress is filled with liars, cheaters and all sorts of scoundrels after all.

Of course, maybe the lesson here is that those who were caught didn't learn the lesson about how to properly hide your tracks.

Now that I think about it, being kicked out of Intro to Congress to go to a real job for 6 months is pretty much exactly how the real world works. If a congressmen gets caught doing something, they might lose their seat in the next election.. and actually have to do some work. But they always have the ability to try and come back later.

**Grey Templar**

clively wrote:
Cheating or cutting corners in Introduction to Congress?

Sounds like the students were actually doing exactly what was expected...

Indeed, surely this was just a misunderstanding of the subject material.

**tyrant of loserville**

Grey Templar wrote:
clively wrote:
Cheating or cutting corners in Introduction to Congress?

Sounds like the students were actually doing exactly what was expected...

Indeed, surely this was just a misunderstanding of the subject material.

I thought that was the perquisite.

**Manchu**

You can get back into Harvard after being kicked out for cheating?

What a great school, pffft.

Meanwhile, at UVA ...

http://records.ureg.virginia.edu/content.php?catoid=7&navoid=445#the_sing_sanc

**Steve steveson**

Grey Templar wrote:
Last quarter in one of my classes one girl got caught copying the answers from a previous quarter's homework onto the current quarters homework.

She got caught because the answers were all wrong If you're going to cheat, at least get the right answers.

I seem to remember someone telling me once that wrong answers are the way to catch cheats. There is only a few right answers, so you will see repetition of the same or similar right answers, but there are millions of wrong answers so even if people change the layout or words used it will still show up.

**rubiksnoob**

Manchu wrote:
You can get back into Harvard after being kicked out for cheating?

What a great school, pffft.

Meanwhile, at UVA ...

http://records.ureg.virginia.edu/content.php?catoid=7&navoid=445#the_sing_sanc

Yeah, at every other university I've heard of, if you get caught cheating you're gone for good. I know that in NC where I go to school, if you get expelled for cheating from one state university, you are not allowed into any of the others as well.

**RiTides**

It's actually (in my opinion) not as black and white as a lot of you are saying.

As Kanluwen (who I believes is a current student) posted, there are degrees to "cheating", and degrees of consequences.

I had a personal experience with this, too, and so I will include a long personal anecdote if anyone is interested

Spoiler:

I took a rather easy elective my senior year, where you would go and listen to a lecture, then write a summary of it afterwards. People rampantly signed in for one another so they didn't have to listen to the lecture, then copied off a student who had gone so they could submit a summary.

The professor knew this and was on the lookout for it. I, like an idiot, missed a class... and being I like to think an honest person, did not ask someone to sign in for me. However, also like an idiot, I decided to write a summary of what I thought the person would have talked about based on their information. This was dishonest, as I should've put a note at the top saying "I could not attend this lecture, but wrote a summary based on research of this person's area of expertise in the hopes of getting partial credit" or the like.

The kicker is that, I did this because I did Not want to cheat in the manner that I saw many people doing. However, it turns out the speaker could not make class, and the lecture was cancelled! Therefore, the professor received only a single summary that week- as everyone who tried to attend knew there was no lecture, and those who cheated normally found out and had nothing to copy.

I also had the misfortune of missing the very next lecture. Ironically, the only 2 lectures I had missed the whole semester (we were preparing an event for a club, apparently it seemed important at the time). This led the professor to believe that I was one of those who had other people signing in for me (which wasn't the case) and never attended lecture.

He emailed me an ultimatum telling me he no longer considered me a part of his class, and that he would fail me if I stayed in, I could drop it, or he would refer it to the academic council. I apologized for submitting the summary dishonestly, but told him I wanted to go before the council because I believed the offense could be explained as trying Not to cheat (by not asking others for what was said in lecture) and mostly by being an idiot. However, the main objection that I had was that the punishment did not fit the crime.

I was guilty of submitting a summary for a lecture I did not attend, based on research I did out of class. While dishonest, the appropriate punishment (to me) was to be given zero credit on that assignment, some form of admonishment, etc- not getting kicked out of the class. As I said, it was my senior year, and I needed the class to graduate... I could not simply drop it as he demanded.

Long story (somewhat) shorter, I obviously put 110% effort into the class the rest of the semester, won the professor back over, and he cancelled his complaint to the academic council. Had they convened on it, I like to think they would have seen my intent (trying not to cheat as I saw others doing, but unfortunately still being dishonest on the assignment). However, it was a very scary experience because of the feeling of being at the mercy of a "kangaroo court"- a group of professors deciding the fate of a student who another professor is displeased with, with no means of appeal should they rule against you.

Anyway, I post all that to say this. These sorts of things are not always simple, and while in my case I would say that the students who were signing in for one another and copying the lectures deserved some sort of punishment, they got none! While I, committing what I think was a more minor offense (at least in the sense that it was a single instance, and with some intent to avoid copying) almost got kicked out of a class, which would have resulted in my not graduating that year.

So, it's easy to say "They cheated, kick them out!" but honestly as an engineering student, I and others were constantly having to help one another out on assignments, and constantly having to re-evaluate what was cheating and what was OK to help one another learn.

One other example- a professor who said googling the answer to a question (what a lazy professor!) would result in failing. And yet, he put the answers in his own power point presentation on his own website. Was it cheating to look at his own notes? Each group had to decide, and only one group decided not to use his notes- and that was the only group not to do well on the assignment.

Academic honor systems are not always fair, and while upholding the honor of an institution is very important, I think it is important to remember that there is often not a bright red line, and the main point of concern is (I believe) the intent of the student(s) in their actions, which is also the hardest thing to judge.