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So is it better to have 4 heavy weapon havocs and a champ or have 4 heavy weapon havocs, a champ, and 5 meatshield marines in a squad granted that you have points to spare?

Unless you buy extra upgrades to make them significantly more expensive than regular marine Devastators I can't see any drawback in adding as many meatshields as you can.

A 5 man squad will go down incredibly fast, I'd suggest 8 with the Mark of Nurgle.

Yeah, put the non-heavy weapon ones in front to die.

Depends what weapons you give them. No sense over investing your points on a 4 autocannon squad. 4 las or flakk missiles then maybe. You're paying another 60 odd points for that survivability to go +3 guys and MoN. What else can you put in your list for that?

i wouldnt take any havocs. forgefiends seem much better.

havocs also have really crap models with a lack of options

kb305 wrote:
i wouldnt take any havocs. forgefiends seem much better.

havocs also have really crap models with a lack of options

Forgefiends aren't equipped to deal with anything with AV12 or over. Posed with the threat of a Predator tank, for example, they will not survive for long. Not necessarily a bad choice, but they have a different role to Havoc squads.

You can also convert Havoc's, through Space marine Devastators if you aren't a fan of the models.

Personally I leave them as 4 HW's and a champ, then spend the points somewhere else.

 blood reaper wrote:

kb305 wrote:
i wouldnt take any havocs. forgefiends seem much better.

havocs also have really crap models with a lack of options

Forgefiends aren't equipped to deal with anything with AV12 or over. Posed with the threat of a Predator tank, for example, they will not survive for long. Not necessarily a bad choice, but they have a different role to Havoc squads.

You can also convert Havoc's, through Space marine Devastators if you aren't a fan of the models.

expensive finecast with no options = auto fail. converting normal devs is one option, i think it would be alot of work getting them to look chaosy enough.

Replace the heads and shoulder pads? File off the Imperial symbols. I've done it, wasn't very hard.

The other issue with Forgefiend's, aside from being unable to effectively engage heavier targets, is that they're incredibly easy to kill. A 5+ invul is nice but it's usually not going to massively swing things, and 6th edition made very sure that mid-AV vehicles have dramatically shortened lifespans.

MKIII Iron armour plus 5 autocannon = instant havoc squad

Stick them on a quad gun for champion precision striking lols....

kb305 wrote:
i wouldnt take any havocs. forgefiends seem much better.

havocs also have really crap models with a lack of options

forgefiends are armor, meaning they can be 1 shotted, haywired or otherwise meltaed. Havocs are not, meaning if you are going with a foot list you should have havocs. If you are going for a mech list you could have forgefineds.

Havocs are awesome conversion projects. I have 12 autocannon, 4 missile and 4 lascannon havocs I converted that are among my most satisfying models ever. If you didnt want to convert stuff, why play Chaos?

 Exergy wrote:

Havocs are awesome conversion projects. I have 12 autocannon, 4 missile and 4 lascannon havocs I converted that are among my most satisfying models ever. If you didnt want to convert stuff, why play Chaos?

My thoughts exactly! Most of my Obliterators are Chaos Terminators that I've converted & bulked up.

Now on to the OP - When I run havocs, I go 4 HW's + Champ (if I had my 'druthers, I wouldn't bother w/ the Champ, tbh). I generally run two squads, one w/ 4 AC's & one w/ 4 ML's. No Marks, no Icons, just 5 guys w/ 4 HW's. I played around w/ more models/marks/icons & found that the points were better spent elsewhere.

~Vryce

I run one ten man havoc squad with 2 ML and 2 AC, a champ, and 5 meatshields. I totally agree that the marks and icons have very little effect, as well. Usually the meat shields aren't even really needed, but they make me feel more secure. The terrain you play on will affect this a lot. If they're deployed behind some wimpy cover, the meat shields are worth it definitely. But if you have some multilevel buildings or ruins, the big guns tend to fine by themselves.