Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello all,

I know that the standard of having a twin linked gun on the crisis suits has been around a while, but I was wondering with the rules for Flamers and over-watch is this reasonable? Here is the new build idea I was thinking of?

Crisis Suit - Anti Assault?
-Plasma Rifle
-Flamer
-Missile Pods
-HW MT
-TA

This seems to be very versatile and you are losing at most 22% to hit on 2 shots, and it saves you 2 to 4 points?

-If you attempt to charge me you get hit for 3d3 Flamer Hits?

I run twin-linked flamers in a Salamanders list, and I love them. So much so that I think 'Twin-linked Flamer' should be a Campbell's soup flavor. (Because it's Mmm-mmm Good!)

That being said, if you can't polish off your opponent's unit with your firepower, at that range you're going to get eaten alive. (Even with the mitigating factor of the flamer, which isn't going to save you from being beaten to death, just mitigate it.) My personal opinion is that flamers and the wall of death rule are really better at turning "I'm just barely in assault range" into "I just barely missed assaulting you." Counting on them to keep you out of (or to win) close combat may result in a tear stained letter to the grieving widow of Shas'O'Snuffy.

That being said, get a friend to let you proxy it and give it a test run. That's the best way to see how it works.

In any event, good luck, and I hope this helps.

citadel97501 wrote:


Crisis Suit - Anti Assault?
-Plasma Rifle
-Flamer
-Missile Pods
-HW MT
-TA

You can only have three hard points on any suit, so you'd have to lose the Targetting array.
To get the HWMT you'd need to run them on Hq and bodyguards.

76 points per bodyguard, 91 for HQ and you're not really changing the price that much, but not really getting that much extra.

Remember that its 1d3 hits, but still S4 and Ap5 so its effects will be marginal.

Running Twinlinked flamers is cheap, but still marginally effective due to the abysmal range on a suit that shouldn't be that close to the enemy. They also take up two slots that could be filled with missile pods, which will be better in every way.

Using the Flamer as a counter-charge measure is quite interesting, tbh. Used it a few times, and my opponent couldn't just charge me, for he feared the 3d3 over-watch auto-hits (which is way above what you could achieve with regular over-watch dices).

Fact is that your current suit load-out is absolutely not "cheap" nor efficient, imho. You have 3 different weapons, whereas even with the MT, you will shoot with 2 at max. Your weapons selection is not much complementing either. You have some long range, mid range and short range fire ability but imo, suits are all about extremely specific goals.

For a "mid/short-range *assault-protected* cheap suit", I'll have:

TL-Plasma
Flamer
No need for TA (your weapons are either TL or autohits)

You can eventually put a HW MT, to be able to put out 6 TL plasma shots + 3d3 flamer's auto-hit in case you'll get charge, or simply to add quite a few hits when shooting normally (but this requires you to be quite next to your opponent). But this load-out starts to be quite points expensive and has to be on your Shas'El/Shas'O guards, HQ, or Crisis Suit Teamleaders.

For a long-range assault-protected Crisis Suit:

Same as above but with TL-MP. For Deathrains Crisis you intend to move and not leave in your DZ.

Light-Infantery blaster suit load-out

TL-Pulse Canon
Flamer
HW-MT

(never tried it, for my FW usually do the light-infantery job much better ^^)

I've been thinking of placing flamers on my team leaders and other that can get HW MT. Instead of thinking of it as a main weapon, think of it as a 5(?) point assault deterrent. Kind of like the shrapnel pods.

Again, if the objective is to shoot with your Teamleaders' Flamers, then get it on very specific suits, the ones that are more likely to be in a short range (PR Suits, or FB Suits). But I don't think there's a real advantage taking that flamer.

A group with flamers could possibly give you 3x auto-hitting templates, which makes a whole lot of hits, and makes your opponent think twice before charging you. One is, imo, plain useless.
a) You have only one weapon, be it TL or not: you're paying an HW MT + Flamer that is gonna be very situationnal and not very effective
b) You have 2 weapons and already have the HW MT, thus you're considering taking HW MT instead and add a flamer. Well, in that case, you should prolly consider having one of those two first weapon. Or drop the flamer and spare 5 points.

My standard suit load outs in 6th have been TL-MP/Flamer. 141 points for 3 suits that sit back and crack open light-medium armor, and if the enemy is rushing my lines they can jump forward, flame the squad, and then jump away. If the enemy still gets close they eat 3d3 flamer overwatch hits which really do help.

If i am having a lack of railguns, I will add a suit with a TL-Fusion Blaster, but still stick a flamer in that last hard point. I think flamers are too cheap not to add to a suit for the versatility they provide a list with.

Same here, I use this type of Suits as a long-range firesupport that might come closer and scare the f*ck out of light infantery with those flamers.

On shorter range suits, I prefer using TL-Plasma + TA because I really want to MAX the hits with the plasmas. They are too close to be allowed to miss their targets...

A flamer is a very special addition to a battle suit.

A few overwatch autohits from a flamer isn't going to save a battlesuit from being assaulted. Instead when choosing the loadout you should see what the suit needs.

For example, a helios (plasma/missile) suit won't be shooting little guys, and has the tools to kill anything really.

Meanwhile if you take a deathrain (TL missile pods) giving the suit a flamer improves its damage when the enemy gets close, as normally towards that point there's less need for missile pods.

I thought helios was fusion/plasma. Plasma/missile is fireknife.

I would only add it on your third hardpoint if your first two weapons were Twin-linked already. Otherwise, there are other toys better suited for our suits.


Although, a lone suicide suit with twin-linked flamers and a failsafe detonator would be fun to run.

 orchewer wrote:
I would only add it on your third hardpoint if your first two weapons were Twin-linked already. Otherwise, there are other toys better suited for our suits.


Although, a lone suicide suit with twin-linked flamers and a failsafe detonator would be fun to run.

My codex isn't handy at the moment -- does failsafe detonator work with an ejection system? That would be even more hilarious.

 Flinty wrote:
I thought helios was fusion/plasma. Plasma/missile is fireknife.

FFFFFF

You're right, was was thinking about something else while I was typing.

Helios plasma fusion
fireknife plasma missile

Yup. Sorry about that.

Honestly I put the flamer on deathrain suits, but if a unit gets charged I always feel like using the missilepods. I've just had much faith in S4 AP5 hits. It doesn't even really detere the enemy that much since they know that if they make the charge, they're going against T4 I2 3+ save suits.

If you had the choice of locking a suit in combat or letting it jump away to pelt you with more missiles, what would you honestly do?