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So I take it, n0t_U, that your strategy is either to not vote or to vote no lynch? If there was one thing Thor and I agreed on thoroughly it was that those were both pro-scum ideas.

"I can put up with you trying to get me killed, but don't even try to foist your guilt off onto someone else, Joan. I told you I would watch out for this, and here you are, immediately trying to shift the focus... and with a point that you conceded to the man you killed, no less."

No my strategy is to vote for the right person. I will vote and we still have a while before this day phase ends. Besides the votes are basically tied at the moment. I'm waiting to see what Arctik says then I'm voting. I want to see who has the Bolt Pistol, finding out who has it was part of his deal with the xenos wasn't it?

"I have already stated the nature of my 'deal' - I never made such a deal. The xenos has not given me any such information, either because no one has asked for the pistol, or because he has refused to enter into the bargain himself. Those are Joan's words, not mine.

Judging by the way the ogryn's throat was cut, I sincerely doubt that this involved the pistol [OOC: Unless Drky had a lapse]. I still don't understand these cries of 'serial killer'. The only serial killers here are the genestealer element. A single kill, of a traitor, does not make a serial murder."

Arctik_Firangi wrote:"I am perfectly happy to correct you again, Sister. I said that I had entered into a bargain, and nothing more. I certainly made no mention or inference about you bargaining with the other xenos, and I am glad that you have taken this bait. Your point is utterly redundant, and your desperate protests are noted. The Eldar can confirm himself that he did not acknowledge my request.

Lies, lies, lies. Tsk, tsk. Your story is FULL OF HOLES!

Here is what you said when you disclosed your little deal:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:So you have said, and still remains the fact that you have no evidence to base that on, other than your desperation to restrict the flow of information. You may, for that reason, be horrified to know that I have entered a bargain with the 'xenos witch' to disclose to me the identity of any who have approached it in private, wanting the weapon for themselves.

You clearly implied that I approached the witch for the gun by claiming knowledge of your attempt to deal with it would "horrify" me.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I have never claimed to have tangible proof of your guilt, only evidence.

And again:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:The 'another on this ship' that I mentioned at the time was none other than Joan, and I am now more convinced than ever that these two are in league. Several times yesterday our sister saw cause to rebuke his actions... where she would normally cast suspicion on hints of rash behaviour. I will make yesterday's vox-recordings available to everyone... see for yourselves how often they speak directly to one another. I believe that Lord-Loss is truly the henchman in this situation, which is why I believe that Joan must die first.

(my bolding)
Well? I asked for it and you said:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:As with in your pathetic arguments against Thor, your calling me to 'post the evidence' does nothing to hide the fact that I ALREADY HAVE.

But you most certainly had not.

So I asked for it again and now you claim it doesn't exist? *sigh* The xenos did not send their brightest agent.

And do not attempt to worm out of this by citing the difference between proof and evidence. I have used the word "EVIDENCE" every single time I've asked you for it.

You are the one who keeps talking about "proof." You talk about "proof" that I am a traitor and then you say there is no such "proof." You talk about "proof" that you are an Inquisitor and then you say there is no such "proof." Well, we can agree on those points.

So what evidence is there?

I maintain that you have two claims:

- I must have murdered Thor because we argued yesterday. (This is your attempt to frame me.)

- You know I am a traitor because you are an Inquisitor and you investigated me last night. (This is you lying to me and everyone else.)

I see, well that sets back my plan on who to vote for back a bit. I just can't decide what one to vote for out of you two
One or both could be a loyalist and that's what is making me take my time with my vote, I don't want to kill off a loyalist. Also, I do not want to risk killing an Inquisitor either.

EDIT: Manchu's post wasn't there when I made this.

After reading through the evidence Manchu just presented I think I'll vote for Arctik. If he has lied about the deal with the xenos, then he might be be lieing about being an Inquisitor and possibly even a loyalist as well. Hopefully you are not actually an Inquisitor.

Vote: Arctik

"ENOUGH, FOOL!

I have not spoken of proof. It is you that has insisted on proof. You hide behind a veil of circular logic that cannot possibly be factored into this situation, and use it to refute everything I have brought against you.

I never mentioned a deal. Those are your words. I very carefully stated that I - ALONE - had entered into the bargain, and inferred that you 'may be horrified' in order to provoke you. It has worked. You walked right into a trap. Of course you would try to misconstrue this as a lie I am telling, but I have the advantage of the fact that the Eldar can confirm what I am claiming. There, if nowhere else, is absolute proof.

I have said that you did not murder Thor alone. You claim that I have said exactly that, but obviously it was a concensus between yourself and your companions. I have presented your animosity against Thor as evidence. I have responded to your posts demanding proof by referring people to what has been said, rather than what you would prefer - [OOC: that is, only reading the crap you post on the current page, flooding the thread with rubbish and cries of 'liar!' that rarely address actual points and refuse to acknowledge points that have been made in the past]

I brought many other matters to light that point towards your guilt. You have only ever voted for your direct opposition, despite conceding to Thor that non-voting was an error. You spent much of yesterday arguing to the contrary. You have attempted, in many various ways that I have continually pointed out, to mislead the others by neglecting to address valid points (except by saying that I am 'lying' - a tired line), and denying that they exist. You have been authoritative and reprimanding in a neutral manner with Lord-Loss, who has behaved suspiciously himself. You will never address the option of martyring yourself because it is too risky at this early stage... despite the unarguable fact it makes perfect sense to do so early, if you are a loyalist.

I know that you are a traitor, and no amount of 'you're lying' and 'I sincerely doubt' constitutes an argument against the claim."

[OOC: My comment on posting the vox-recordings was roleplaying - suspension-of-disbelief. Everyone is capable of going back through the thread, and I was only referring to the matter in a way that would make sense when speaking in character.]

n0t_u, you will feel very foolish when I am killed today and Joan stabs you in the back tonight. Kill her now and the best they can hope for is to kill me. You will notice that no-one else has claimed to be an Inquisitor, which is what a loyalist would sensibly do if someone falsely claimed to be one.

"Joan has NO evidence that I am a traitor other than weak theories, naysaying and more recently, her desperate insistence that I am not an Inquisitor. If you have been given any other impression, you have been seduced by her rhetoric, and I challenge any third party to refute that or provide reasonable evidence that she has presented."

[Drky, I am also requesting a bump of inactive players. Has typhus even posted once? I'm getting tired of contant banter between two-and-a-half people.]

My desperation? When you have just ranted and screamed in the face of logic? I think you feel the walls of your lies and qualifications closing in.

I have consistently posted clear and concise responses to address all the points you have raised (including your ridiculous request that I save you the time of murdering me by somehow martyring myself--although you have just LIED about me not responding to that.)

You also lied about (on two occasions now) about me not voting yesterday. I did vote. I voted for Thor because I thought he was the most suspicious person. I was wrong that he was a traitor but I don't think that means that he could not have been acting suspiciously in my eyes. I agreed with Thor that everyone should vote for the person they felt was the most suspicious. I also agreed that I would change my vote if he could assure me he wasn't just trying to bait me into looking like a bandwagon voter.

No one else has claimed to be an Inquisitor because the real Inquisitor--if indeed one is truly present--would noy reveal himself to early and is counting on other loyalists like myself knowing that and recognizing you as an impostor.

By all means, continue to rave. It will do you no good, traitor.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I never mentioned a deal. Those are your words. I very carefully stated that I - ALONE - had entered into the bargain, and inferred that you 'may be horrified' in order to provoke you. It has worked. You walked right into a trap. Of course you would try to misconstrue this as a lie I am telling, but I have the advantage of the fact that the Eldar can confirm what I am claiming. There, if nowhere else, is absolute proof.

So the Eldar didn't tell you who has the Bolt Pistol then? I was hoping that you did know.

Arctik_Firangi wrote: n0t_u, you will feel very foolish when I am killed today and Joan stabs you in the back tonight. Kill her now and the best they can hope for is to kill me. You will notice that no-one else has claimed to be an Inquisitor, which is what a loyalist would sensibly do if someone falsely claimed to be one.

Maybe I will, maybe us loyalists will win at the small sacrifice of your life, Machu's and mine.

"'Clear and concise responses' do not, however, make evidence against me, and I can only applaud you for having somehow convinced anyone that it does. You have only barely responded to my accusations, and the mere fact that you are suspicious of me does not constitute good evidence at this point...
[Early game maybe, but you have had the game thrown at you, and now you actually have to deal with the consequences of being unconstructive]

I have referred to your first mistake - presenting yourself as a 'non-voter'. You said yourself that you would not vote without clear reason, which Thor repeatedly and correctly pointed out as effectively deciding to not vote. Ultimately, you withdrew your vote against Thor, as part of your failed attempt to make a 'deal' with him.

I have given strong reasons for revealing myself as an Inquisitor. Among those reasons is the fact that since I am likely to die tonight if not today, it is guaranteed to prove that you are guilty.

Tell me, traitor, what do you hope to achieve by surviving today when you seek my death anyway? Who is your target should I be lynched? Answer theoretically, if you have not the stomach to talk about actual, useful strategy."

I've been thinking though, what if neither of you are actually traitors and the real ones are off laughing at the three of us?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Ultimately, you withdrew your vote against Thor, as part of your failed attempt to make a 'deal' with him.

Wrong -OR- lying once again.

Arctik wrote:I have given strong reasons for revealing myself as an Inquisitor. Among those reasons is the fact that since I am likely to die tonight if not today, it is guaranteed to prove that you are guilty.

If you're so eager to prove me guilty by dying, let's just kill you now--since you think martydom is such a good idea for me--and we'll see what it proves. My bet is that it proves you're an alien scumbag or else some sort of serial killer.

As for the rest of your drivel, I am finished dignifying insults with a response. If you have any actual concerns that I have not already addressed time and time again, I will answer them AS USUAL with clear, concise answers that expose my thought process for everyone to consider.

n0t_u wrote:I've been thinking though, what if neither of you are actually traitors and the real ones are off laughing at the three of us?

At this point, I am feel certain that Arctik is the traitor. You'll have to guage my arguments for yourself, however. I was wrong about Thor and could be wrong about Arctik. But the way that Arctik has recently lied about so much (or gotten an awful lot of important things absolutely wrong by chance) and the fact that his desperate arguments against me are so weak AND given that he is almost certainly lying about being an Inquisitor, I will not be changing my vote unless someone else basically confesses.

Yeah, I guess that the real Inquisitor might reveal themselves. But, if Manchu is the real one then revealing it would actually be a bad idea. I'll probably change my vote if the same thing happens. I'm interested to see where this Bolt Pistol turns up. Obviously it will have a huge effect on the game, I only hope it's on the loyalist's side and hits the right target. How many traitors were there anyway? Has it been revealed yet?

BIG OOC:
[[{{
1. typhus
2. Arctik_Firangi
3. Manchu
4. Lord-Loss
5. n0t_u
6. Ghosty
7. Mekboy
8. Owain

If I am lynched, Manchu and any other genestealers will kill one of:
typhus (unlikely since he is not actually in the game,) Lord-Loss (cough)
n0t_u
Ghosty
Mekboy
Owain

This will leave at least four loyalists (I doubt that there would be more than three genestealers, if there are even that many). Lord-Loss may be a loyalist, but I have my doubts, most recently because he dropped his vote against me, and since Joan will die anyway, this could be an attempt to get in under the radar.

Three votes will be required to lynch tomorrow, which means that Joan can be easily disposed of once my death proves her guilt. If our mystery killer strikes again, there will still be 3 votes required but it will be out of four players. Since typhus is not even in the game, this can not possibly even occur. So if the mystery killer is a loyalist ally, it is very important that typhus be killed... Or if there is no mystery-killer-kill then we will b on 5 players, still requiring three votes to lynch. This is impossible if there are two traitors because typus is not active.

If there is another traitor, he can take the number of loyalists down to 2 or 3 that night. 2 or 3 votes will be required to lynch, again impossible if typhus is alive because the game will time out with an impossible lynch.

By that logic, if the traitors manage to fluke and knock off the mystery killer, they will auto-win. If I am lynched today and there is a traitor other than Joan, the traitors are very likely to win.

I see that Owain and Mekboy have been posting elsewhere in the forum as recently as today, but are not contributing.

On a personal note, Manchu, this is pretty much down to you, me and this day phase as far as my enjoyment of this game goes. May the best man lynch! }}]]

"Joan, I have not lied and I am not wrong. I have already addressed those claims, and I grow tired of being required to state that nay-saying does not make an argument.

You constantly state that you are certain I am not the Inquisitor, but this is not an argument either. I simply say in reply that you are a traitor and are lying. You should know that you cannot possibly prove that I am not, so it is more likely that you are lying. You also cannot be 'almost certain', because you would have to be a loyalist to know that I am lying... and I know that you are not.

Unless someone refutes that I am indeed the Inquisitor, you can make no claim that I am not."

The only way to be so sure that someone isn't the Inquisitor would be to actually be the real Inquisitor. Loyalists aren't allowed to reveal their identities to each other, that's why this mystery killer is so mysterious. Both loyalists and traitors wouldn't know who the Inquisitor is, only they would know.

[To the contrary, loyalists may reveal whatever they wish, as long as it is within the game thread. The only other communication that is allowed is between the traitors at night-time.]

I see, then how would the loyalists even know it's true at all? Everyone could just start claiming to be the Inquisitor. Especially traitors, as it seems as if it would make the perfect mask. But, then again it might also be a very bad idea as it's sure to draw way too much attention to them.

At this point, it is pretty much necessary to expose myself, as we have an extremely manipulative traitor, no way of knowing if there is another, an inactive player that makes the game very difficult to win if we make a mistake, and no doctor.

Since my accusal of Manchu was going to bring his wrath either way, I am hoping that we can at least get rid of the confirmed traitor and have an okay chance of winning.

Confirmed?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:You constantly state that you are certain I am not the Inquisitor, but this is not an argument either. I simply say in reply that you are a traitor and are lying. You should know that you cannot possibly prove that I am not, so it is more likely that you are lying.

*sigh* That's completely ridiculous.

- You say you're an Inquisitor.

- I say you are not.

- I say an Inquisitor would not reveal himself at this point.

- I say that only someone who was desperately trying to bolster a failed attempt to frame someone else would claim as much.

- I further suggest that the real Inquisitor will not reveal him or herself at this time and certainly won't expose him or herself to refute you because any rational person can see that you have WEIGHTY MOTIVES to lie about this and can offer NO REASON WHATSOEVER why anyone should believe you.

Given this, you somehow conclude that I am more likely to be lying than you??? Pfft.

n0t_u wrote:Confirmed?

Yes. I am the Inquisitor. I investigated Manchu. Manchu is a genestealer.

I confidently present whatever evidence I can find for him and set a couple of traps (the one sided bargain and the Inquisitor reveal if necessary).

Naturally Manchu denies everything. Naturally Manchu has no evidence against me, and can only react with hostility to his accusal. Naturally Manchu misrepresents what I say and ignores what he cannot.

I have given concise reason for revealing myself at this point, and once again it is being ignored, or denied for the sake of denial, by the guilty party.

Well, I guess we'll just find out during the night phase then. I know the three of us are probably going to be dead before the next day anyway, we're the most active at the moment, thus the only current targets for the traitors. The mystery killer will probably hit one of us, the lynch will take the other and the Bolt Pistol wherever it is will take the last.

- You say you're an Inquisitor.
- Correct

- I say you are not.
- Of course you do.

- I say an Inquisitor would not reveal himself at this point.
- I explain exactly why I did.

- I say that only someone who was desperately trying to bolster a failed attempt to frame someone else would claim as much.
- ...and hence prove that you are unable to regard evidence.

- I further suggest that the real Inquisitor will not reveal him or herself at this time and certainly won't expose him or herself to refute you because any rational person can see that you have WEIGHTY MOTIVES to lie about this and can offer NO REASON WHATSOEVER why anyone should believe you.
- I have an extremely good reason why people should believe me, and your only case is that you can deny it. You are the only one actively attacking the premise. If you are killed and innocent, it just proves that I am guilty, does it not? The consequences are not so dire, if you are loyal, that you would take it so incredibly personally. I am not afraid to die for this cause, but I would rather see you twitching on the end of my sword.


[getting toward 1am here, gotta go to work early so crashin', it's your forum, Manchu ]

Your "reason" for FALSELY announcing yourself is "Joan is a genestealer." That's not an argument. That's a confirmation of why I said you announced yourself--to prop up your failing attempt to frame me for Thor's murder.

I saw no benefit to addressing it again (and more explicitly) since you are basically confirming my argument against you.

***For those of you who can't be bothered to read these pages of text, here is the sum total of Arctik's argument against me:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Yes. I am the Inquisitor. I investigated Manchu. Manchu is a genestealer.

Oh, also I argued with Thor yesterday.

And a reiteration of my argument:

- Arctik killed Thor knowing he could blame me because I argued with Thor.

- This would look convincing because Thor was innocent, a fact known to Arctik because he is a genestealer.

- He immediately started on this as soon as day began. He also bafflingly accused Lord-Loss of being my co-conspirator. He claimed there was evidence for this but has refused to show examples THREE times.

- When this argument turned out to be very weak--because I saw straight through it--Arctik got nervous.

- Arctik then claimed to be an Inquisitor. He claimed to suspect Orkeo and claimed that this somehow led him to suspect me. He never explained the connection. (He seems to have given up on the Lord-Loss issue now that Lord-Loss is not voting for him.)

- He proceeded to at best misrepresent but more likely lie about about different things he and I had done. I proved him wrong in each instance.

- With n0t_U voting against him, Arctik is sweating hard and desperately trying to obscure these simple arguments. Doesn't look good, Arctik.

((OOC: @n0t_U: I think you are obsessing too much over this bolt pistol. From what I can tell, Drk_O saw my laspistol mechanic in Honoris Causa and offered it for use in this thread. Thor and I both saw that this would be an advantage to the traitors and decried its use. Unless someone has secretly gotten it from the alien and is using it as a night weapon, the chances are that no one has it. If Arctik is killed and turns out to be a genestealer and we do not win, we'll know there is a serial killer. If Arctik turns out to be the serial killer we'll know there is at least one genestealer out there--unless Srk_O changed that, too--and if two people are killed during the night, we'll know that someone is either a vigilante or is using the bolt pistol to act like one.))

OCC: I see, he did say it could be used in the day if I remember right. But, it should be considered a fair bit because it gives someone a free kill. I see it as being as important as lynching.