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Spectral Ceramite wrote:

ItsPug wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

IDK about the 10 man units thing. I find it safer to always make them 9 man max so don't have to debate anything. The combat squad? why combat squad when you are just losing Sergs and BS? (which are free), if want the point/extra unit/ability just make a 5 man and add a VV or a biker they can be the last to die so can move max when need? I see why it maybe a thing, but I think the negative out weights the positive. Moreover, the DW die like marines so current setup is moot.

Taking them as troops grants the bikers objective secured, which can be the difference between victory and defeat. Its much more important IMHO that a free sergeant.

I ment taking a vet squad + a bike (which is crazy just take a vet + a vanguard tbh, but personal opinion)

But he's talking about combat squadding the 5 vets in one squad and splitting off the three bikers and 2 vanguards together in the other squad, so that the biker/vanguard squad can move fast (12-14"), is T5 overall, shoots well, fights ok, and can fall back from combat and still shoot and charge and has objective secured. Its a different kettle of fish to "add a bike to a vet squad"

ItsPug wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

ItsPug wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

IDK about the 10 man units thing. I find it safer to always make them 9 man max so don't have to debate anything. The combat squad? why combat squad when you are just losing Sergs and BS? (which are free), if want the point/extra unit/ability just make a 5 man and add a VV or a biker they can be the last to die so can move max when need? I see why it maybe a thing, but I think the negative out weights the positive. Moreover, the DW die like marines so current setup is moot.

Taking them as troops grants the bikers objective secured, which can be the difference between victory and defeat. Its much more important IMHO that a free sergeant.

I ment taking a vet squad + a bike (which is crazy just take a vet + a vanguard tbh, but personal opinion)

But he's talking about combat squadding the 5 vets in one squad and splitting off the three bikers and 2 vanguards together in the other squad, so that the biker/vanguard squad can move fast (12-14"), is T5 overall, shoots well, fights ok, and can fall back from combat and still shoot and charge and has objective secured. Its a different kettle of fish to "add a bike to a vet squad"

Ye I get it. Let me know how that rolls. With the setup I just don't see it being worth it.

Can someone link the ruleset where this 10 v 9 unit size matters? I've never played like this before.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:


I think you should rethink what you want each unit to do and what you want your DW to do.

If want a fire support DW unit (not a move and grab an objective etc), one that I run a lot and has done well is (not saying take but if want a DW fire support unit). This is one a I have taken to great effect:

I think the poster HAS thought about what they want the DW to do, that's why they're using combat squads to achieve both roles. Bikes and VV break off of each squad and now you have three swift Obsec units to move and grab objectives while the three fire support veterans staying behind. Sure, not many ablative wounds for either squads, but you have 3 individual squads for both roles, giving you a pretty decent amount of tactical flexibility. I personally dislike it because I am a fan of larger units for stratagems, and thus would kit these guys out completely differently, but the vision the list builder has is clear.

I would also like to point out that most tournaments (particularly ITC format ones) don't give points for killing 10 man units - they do it for 10 MODEL units. That's an important distinction. It means you can take a 10 man infantry squad but add in a heavy weapon team like a mortar to deny your opponent these points. Its 10 men, but 9 models. As such, don't be afraid of adding a 10 man Vet squad into your list if you intend to combat squad it at deployment.

Martel732 wrote:

Leman Russes should probably be punched in general, since shooting them with marines is typically folly in my experience. You'll never win that shoot out.

We absolutely agree here.

IDK about the 10 man units thing. I find it safer to always make them 9 man max so don't have to debate anything. The combat squad? why combat squad when you are just losing Sergs and BS? (which are free), if want the point/extra unit/ability just make a 5 man and add a VV or a biker they can be the last to die so can move max when need? I see why it maybe a thing, but I think the negative out weights the positive. Moreover, the DW die like marines so current setup is moot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Little thought that ran through my friend's head and I will be testing it this weekend.

5 x Vets with Storm Bolter/Storm Shield (SWAT style)
1 x Bike
4 x Vanguard Vets (PS/SS, PA/SS. HTH, Dual Claws)

Move forward with plenty of firepower and protection.
At the last moment, use the stratagem to combat squad, detach the bike and Vanguard and charge. With the bike you keep the option to fall back, shoot with the first squad and charge again.

Storm Bolters are cheap and double a Vet's firepower.

IDK if storm bolters are cheap (makes them 20ppm above 17 and with SS is 25) is a 286pts unit approx (there is alot better shooting/melee units for DW at that points cost) but could be awesome let us know how it goes.

Why combat squad? Because the list builder wants to.

No point ignoring their vision when giving suggestions - not every single person here is building an army to win tournaments. Some people actually play this game to have fun in ways that don't inside WAAC.

Martel732 wrote:
Can someone link the ruleset where this 10 v 9 unit size matters? I've never played like this before.

ITC missions found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit#

Specifically this secondary mission:

The Reaper: Earn a point for every enemy unit that is destroyed that began the game with 10+ models. If a unit begins the game with 20+ models, you earn 2 points if it is destroyed.

I agree it's important to consider building for whatever tournament you're playing in, but let's not go overboard and make sweeping declarations on list building unless it actually applies, eh?

You want to limit the ease by which the enemy can achieve points on you. ITC missions like these (not this specific one) is why the Adepticon 7 Flyrants list was trash at LVO.

Lemondish wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:


I think you should rethink what you want each unit to do and what you want your DW to do.

If want a fire support DW unit (not a move and grab an objective etc), one that I run a lot and has done well is (not saying take but if want a DW fire support unit). This is one a I have taken to great effect:

I think the poster HAS thought about what they want the DW to do, that's why they're using combat squads to achieve both roles. Bikes and VV break off of each squad and now you have three swift Obsec units to move and grab objectives while the three fire support veterans staying behind. Sure, not many ablative wounds for either squads, but you have 3 individual squads for both roles, giving you a pretty decent amount of tactical flexibility. I personally dislike it because I am a fan of larger units for stratagems, and thus would kit these guys out completely differently, but the vision the list builder has is clear.

I would also like to point out that most tournaments (particularly ITC format ones) don't give points for killing 10 man units - they do it for 10 MODEL units. That's an important distinction. It means you can take a 10 man infantry squad but add in a heavy weapon team like a mortar to deny your opponent these points. Its 10 men, but 9 models. As such, don't be afraid of adding a 10 man Vet squad into your list if you intend to combat squad it at deployment.

Martel732 wrote:

Leman Russes should probably be punched in general, since shooting them with marines is typically folly in my experience. You'll never win that shoot out.

We absolutely agree here.

IDK about the 10 man units thing. I find it safer to always make them 9 man max so don't have to debate anything. The combat squad? why combat squad when you are just losing Sergs and BS? (which are free), if want the point/extra unit/ability just make a 5 man and add a VV or a biker they can be the last to die so can move max when need? I see why it maybe a thing, but I think the negative out weights the positive. Moreover, the DW die like marines so current setup is moot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Little thought that ran through my friend's head and I will be testing it this weekend.

5 x Vets with Storm Bolter/Storm Shield (SWAT style)
1 x Bike
4 x Vanguard Vets (PS/SS, PA/SS. HTH, Dual Claws)

Move forward with plenty of firepower and protection.
At the last moment, use the stratagem to combat squad, detach the bike and Vanguard and charge. With the bike you keep the option to fall back, shoot with the first squad and charge again.

Storm Bolters are cheap and double a Vet's firepower.

IDK if storm bolters are cheap (makes them 20ppm above 17 and with SS is 25) is a 286pts unit approx (there is alot better shooting/melee units for DW at that points cost) but could be awesome let us know how it goes.

Why combat squad? Because the list builder wants to.

No point ignoring their vision when giving suggestions - not every single person here is building an army to win tournaments. Some people actually play this game to have fun in ways that don't inside WAAC.

I have always played for fun ( I have around 13k+ since 7th hit for this army because I love it). The suggestions have been if want to tourny, but if want to fun it just go for it. I am no expert as well, do what want to do. This is my fav army (apart from LoD) and I a building all 3 ordoes (my SoB is my biggest and collected since came out (sold about 12k+pts), alas will get new models soon, yay and sigh. Lets se how the dice fall.

Moreover, all my points are a suggestion, Not that I do it in my lists for 2k (my 1 squad but is altered to my unit /objective need) I am just offering opinions to be debated and I am glad that you clarified it. Cheers mate

Wow. Those are NOT the ITC missions I've been using.

We've been using these:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yMBZ9xROQ8y_GJtCW-05mk0lK-Lz9VHhL6Ao_BmZORk/edit


So what deteremines which mission pack gets used? And why would anyone use the champion's missions over combined arms?

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:


I think you should rethink what you want each unit to do and what you want your DW to do.

If want a fire support DW unit (not a move and grab an objective etc), one that I run a lot and has done well is (not saying take but if want a DW fire support unit). This is one a I have taken to great effect:

I think the poster HAS thought about what they want the DW to do, that's why they're using combat squads to achieve both roles. Bikes and VV break off of each squad and now you have three swift Obsec units to move and grab objectives while the three fire support veterans staying behind. Sure, not many ablative wounds for either squads, but you have 3 individual squads for both roles, giving you a pretty decent amount of tactical flexibility. I personally dislike it because I am a fan of larger units for stratagems, and thus would kit these guys out completely differently, but the vision the list builder has is clear.

I would also like to point out that most tournaments (particularly ITC format ones) don't give points for killing 10 man units - they do it for 10 MODEL units. That's an important distinction. It means you can take a 10 man infantry squad but add in a heavy weapon team like a mortar to deny your opponent these points. Its 10 men, but 9 models. As such, don't be afraid of adding a 10 man Vet squad into your list if you intend to combat squad it at deployment.

Martel732 wrote:

Leman Russes should probably be punched in general, since shooting them with marines is typically folly in my experience. You'll never win that shoot out.

We absolutely agree here.

IDK about the 10 man units thing. I find it safer to always make them 9 man max so don't have to debate anything. The combat squad? why combat squad when you are just losing Sergs and BS? (which are free), if want the point/extra unit/ability just make a 5 man and add a VV or a biker they can be the last to die so can move max when need? I see why it maybe a thing, but I think the negative out weights the positive. Moreover, the DW die like marines so current setup is moot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Little thought that ran through my friend's head and I will be testing it this weekend.

5 x Vets with Storm Bolter/Storm Shield (SWAT style)
1 x Bike
4 x Vanguard Vets (PS/SS, PA/SS. HTH, Dual Claws)

Move forward with plenty of firepower and protection.
At the last moment, use the stratagem to combat squad, detach the bike and Vanguard and charge. With the bike you keep the option to fall back, shoot with the first squad and charge again.

Storm Bolters are cheap and double a Vet's firepower.

IDK if storm bolters are cheap (makes them 20ppm above 17 and with SS is 25) is a 286pts unit approx (there is alot better shooting/melee units for DW at that points cost) but could be awesome let us know how it goes.

Why combat squad? Because the list builder wants to.

No point ignoring their vision when giving suggestions - not every single person here is building an army to win tournaments. Some people actually play this game to have fun in ways that don't inside WAAC.

I have always played for fun ( I have around 13k+ since 7th hit for this army because I love it). The suggestions have been if want to tourny, but if want to fun it just go for it. I am no expert as well, do what want to do. This is my fav army (apart from LoD) and I a building all 3 ordoes (my SoB is my biggest and collected since came out (sold about 12k+pts), alas will get new models soon, yay and sigh. Lets se how the dice fall.

Moreover, all my points are a suggestion, Not that I do it in my lists for 2k (my 1 squad but is altered to my unit /objective need) I am just offering opinions to be debated and I am glad that you clarified it. Cheers mate

All of that's fine. At the same time, this is the 40k tactics forum, so you should expect to see people querying or suggesting tactics. You're free to answer that you're doing something for rule of cool reasons. There's no foul here.

Personally I'm a dead-eyed WAAC tournament junkie. There's room for everyone.

Martel732 wrote:
Wow. Those are NOT the ITC missions I've been using.

We've been using these:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yMBZ9xROQ8y_GJtCW-05mk0lK-Lz9VHhL6Ao_BmZORk/edit


So what deteremines which mission pack gets used? And why would anyone use the champion's missions over combined arms?

Good question. I think that's interesting. I've only ever seen the first pack used - suppose it depends on the tournaments in your area?

In any case, moral of the story is build for the tournament missions - unless you're just discussing tactics, then I don't see it helping much to apply those lessons outside that context.

Martel732 wrote:
Wow. Those are NOT the ITC missions I've been using.

We've been using these:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yMBZ9xROQ8y_GJtCW-05mk0lK-Lz9VHhL6Ao_BmZORk/edit


So what deteremines which mission pack gets used? And why would anyone use the champion's missions over combined arms?

Champions is used at all the major ITC events. IE LVO, BAO, Socal Open.

It's got its advantages. Fixed objectives placement and choosing secondaries based on your opponents list are both really good. I despise the pseudo-KP End of Round Primary Objective though. Overall, I like them as a competitive mission format.

UGH. I really like the combined arms missions much better. Yes, people can game by placing their own objectives, but I dislike any form of KP at all. However, some of the list building on here makes more sense now.

I'm still struggling to find a way to use the SIA w/ primaris and NOT lose my ass to Drukhari and Tau. And that's not even counting overcharge plasma.

Martel732 wrote:
UGH. I really like the combined arms missions much better. Yes, people can game by placing their own objectives, but I dislike any form of KP at all. However, some of the list building on here makes more sense now.

I'm still struggling to find a way to use the SIA w/ primaris and NOT lose my ass to Drukhari and Tau. And that's not even counting overcharge plasma.

Sample size of one, but I beat my first DE opponent who had gone 7-0 with his list prior to our game. Leviathan Dread from the teleportarium put in work, as did the 5 Intercessor/5 Aggressor KT in a crater in the centerish portion of the board. Admittedly, his first turn Dark Lance rolls against my Corvus were kind of trash, but he killed a Manticore and deleted my entire guard screen turn one. The mixed KT was on the board but hidden in a large hill he couldnt get his fast movers around. Then I ran the Jump captain up to the center and used the beacon to put them into the craters and teleported the dread just behind that but still in my deployment zone. Eventually, the normal KT disembarked from the Corvus and started frag cannoning Raiders to death. The Storm shields did a lot to absorb his high AP guns which let the FC's put in work. Though by the end of the game, they were down to just 2-3 FC's.

Ended in me almost tabling him. He had two Kabalites hiding in a corner and a character behind a hill.

Not sure of the best place to post this, but I recently got back into the hobby -- and I'm planning on building a DW army. I'm waiting on delivery of the Codex still, but I'm in the process of converting the Primaris side of DI to DW, and I also picked up a Kill Team box. I grabbed the KT box mainly for the chapter specific shoulder pads -- but noticed this thing comes with quite a bit of bits and variety.

I'm looking for advice on some ideal loadouts using the bits from the KT box to convert/modify onto the models from the DI box -- or even trying to gauge if the KT box itself might be worth using for the vets (and any loadout advice there).

So, that being said -- any ideas if there's some solid units I can make from combining the DI box with the KT box? I'm fine with doing some conversion work and also have 2x Deathwatch upgrade sprues to convert the shoulders on all my DI Primaris marines as well.

/cheers

The weapons in the Kill Team Box are for Vets only and aren't available to the Primaris models in any way. The primary draw to the Vets in general is access to some of the Kill Team special weapons like Frag Cannons and Storm Bolters.

 LunarSol wrote:
The weapons in the Kill Team Box are for Vets only and aren't available to the Primaris models in any way. The primary draw to the Vets in general is access to some of the Kill Team special weapons like Frag Cannons and Storm Bolters.

Good to know! As I said, I'm still waiting on my codex but wanted to work on some of this over the weekend. Sounds like I'll be assembling vets as normal then . How are HTH's and black shield looking? Would making them assaulty be any good?

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The weapons in the Kill Team Box are for Vets only and aren't available to the Primaris models in any way. The primary draw to the Vets in general is access to some of the Kill Team special weapons like Frag Cannons and Storm Bolters.

Good to know! As I said, I'm still waiting on my codex but wanted to work on some of this over the weekend. Sounds like I'll be assembling vets as normal then . How are HTH's and black shield looking? Would making them assaulty be any good?

Can't give an HTH to a Blackshield, part of why they're so terrible is that they can only go on models with two attacks. Black shields could be good in a CC focused squad but I have no experience running CC squads.

If I had to kit out for melee, I'd go for thunder hammers/bolters for damage with some chainsword or Bolter/storm shields to tank high AP and maybe a single Terminator with power sword/storm shield to tank poor AP weapons. Power swords don't really do anything a Boltgun with SIA can do from 9" or a Primaris bolt rifle can do from 12". Chainswords are free, but kitting out a squad with them for chaff clearing doesn't make sense when DW have some of the best ranged chaff clear marines can take. Power axes could potentially put in work when you add in the +1 to wound strat. Wounding most vehicles on 4's rerolling 1's with -2 AP sounds tasty.

Really, I think Deathwatch's niche is close to mid range shooting backed up with the occasional punch in CC. Frag Cannons are good, storm bolters are good, storm shields on regular bolter vets are good. You can't go wrong with those as the core of your veteran collection. I also highly recommend magnetizing your arms so you can try new loadouts on a whim. Normally I don't bother magnetizing infantry, but DW just have so many potential loadouts you'd be doing yourself a disservice long term not to keep your options open.

Corvuses are good if you accept that they are a flying Rhino and you don't factor them into your offensive output.

The HTH in general isn't a great weapon, but its a cool proxy for a regular Thunder Hammer on a Captain or something. Sadly, I don't even think the Black Shield is allowed to take it. :(

Yes it is shame HTH can only be taken on model with 2A.

For the Black Shield, I figure the best loadout on it would be a normal Thurnder Hammer and a chainsword. Giving him 3A with S8 AP-3 D3 against the big guys, or 4A of normal combat weapon for attacking hordes. Or any combination in between.

What Primaris squad mixes have you guys found to be useful?

I am working towards a two battalion all primaris force but I am not sure what I should do for the squads. Personally I would like to mix them up a bit, but I have been wondering should I go for full 10man squads or go for less?

Right now I think I like the following squad:
5xIntercessors Bolt rifles,maybe sgt with sword and aux grenade launcher, 2xHellblasters, 1 each of reivers, aggressors and an inceptor.

What would you say are other useful combos?

Are inceptors worth it or should you shoot you Bolt pistols while tied up in close combat?

Thanks for any feedback you may have.

 Chaplain Pallantide wrote:
What Primaris squad mixes have you guys found to be useful?

I am working towards a two battalion all primaris force but I am not sure what I should do for the squads. Personally I would like to mix them up a bit, but I have been wondering should I go for full 10man squads or go for less?

Right now I think I like the following squad:
5xIntercessors Bolt rifles,maybe sgt with sword and aux grenade launcher, 2xHellblasters, 1 each of reivers, aggressors and an inceptor.

What would you say are other useful combos?

Are inceptors worth it or should you shoot you Bolt pistols while tied up in close combat?

Thanks for any feedback you may have.

I think the role of Primaris kill team should be mid field mobile fire support, while the veteran kill team are either close range shoot / charge with frag cannon, stormbolter or thurnder hammer stormshield, or long range fire support with stalker boltgun and missle launcher and CML terminator.

I am quite torn on the loadout for such role. While the squad composition is quite certain, 5 Intercessors, a few Hellblasters, an Inceptor, if taking assault weapons, then 1 or 2 Aggressors. The loadout however, are choice between assault version weapons or rapid fire ones. The extra strength of the plasma and extra AP of the bolt rifle are great, perfect for killing that Hive Tyrant, Destroyers, Wave Serpents, etc. but they are only superior when being within 15" range. While the extra shot of assault would be better at 24". So well, qiute split between the two thought.

Thanks for the reply, and I agree I am torn as to the best primaris loadout.

I am mainly interested in doing primaris only deathwatch which is why I posted the question.

Would it be worth is the have a mixture of an assault based squad with aggressor and other squads with rapid fire versions?

Just wish I had a clearer answer.

Also would it be best to squeeze in two battalions for 13 command points or keep to a single battalion and add in redemptor dreads and go with a smaller 8 command points and have my warlord take the knowledge of the forbidden trait and try to regain command points that way.

I am more concerned about having enough anti tank using primaris only.

After reading this thread I got the feeling that people think Intercessors is a stronger troop choice than Veterans. However, I prefer Veterans due to the option too mix terminators and normal vets with stormshiled giving the possibility to optimize your save, i.e. 3+ invo saves in high AP multiple wounds hits and 2+ otherwise. The extra abbilites that comes from taking one Vanguard Veteran and a Biker are also great.
Any comments on this?

As a stormbolter is in all respects two bolters, a veteran is 10 points per bolter, with special ammo plus three attacks on the charge and two bonus attacks per squad for the blackshield and sergeant, and that’s before adding any special kit above the obvious stormbolter and chainsword setup.

The only place intercessors win out over that is durability against non-multidamage weaponry. That still makes them useful in and of themselves, especially if you add some specialists, but I’d largely edge towards veterans... Especially once you factor in that holding the line isn’t really what deathwatch are, fluff wise, for. They’re for high intensity surgical strikes.

 Chaplain Pallantide wrote:
Thanks for the reply, and I agree I am torn as to the best primaris loadout.

I am mainly interested in doing primaris only deathwatch which is why I posted the question.

Would it be worth is the have a mixture of an assault based squad with aggressor and other squads with rapid fire versions?

Just wish I had a clearer answer.

Also would it be best to squeeze in two battalions for 13 command points or keep to a single battalion and add in redemptor dreads and go with a smaller 8 command points and have my warlord take the knowledge of the forbidden trait and try to regain command points that way.

I am more concerned about having enough anti tank using primaris only.

I had a lot of success with two simple builds. The first was 5 Intercessors with auto bolt rifles, 4 Aggressors with boltstorm, and 1 auto bolter Inceptor. It's a T5 unit that can fallback and shoot as well as advance without penalty. They were best used aggressively on softer chaff, but remember they can still punch through tough armour since the SIA vengeance rounds share the same range as your Aggressors.

The second is a pretty simple 5 Intercessors with regular old rapid fire bolt rifles and 4 Hellblasters with the rapid fire incinerator along with 1 plasma inceptor. With the Intergressor squad taking long on clearing chaff, these guys targeted tougher things and could work into a better position in the wake of the other squad. They worked just as you'd expect a squad of Hellblasters with ablative wounds would, while they can't be silenced with a charge.

Both have been really successful for me. I haven't yet added flamestorm Aggressors because flamer weapons are really too situational. I also haven't added Reivers because the extra cost on the carbine dissuades me a bit and I don't really care that much about their shock grenades.

Nora wrote:
After reading this thread I got the feeling that people think Intercessors is a stronger troop choice than Veterans. However, I prefer Veterans due to the option too mix terminators and normal vets with stormshiled giving the possibility to optimize your save, i.e. 3+ invo saves in high AP multiple wounds hits and 2+ otherwise. The extra abbilites that comes from taking one Vanguard Veteran and a Biker are also great.
Any comments on this?

Intercessors are the new hotness, but Veterans are still amazing as well. I would not take one over the other in exclusion personally. Veterans may have less wounds, but they have greater offensive output, actual transport options that don't put all your eggs in one basket, and have a more reliable source of tanking different types of shots just as you said.

My current veteran build is 4 with SB/CS, 2 with SB/SS, 1 termie with SB/Fist or sword, 2 vets with FC, and 1 VV with dual chainswords. I've been using them as drop troops while the Primaris are the ones holding the fort in the first turn.

I’m not sure what all the enthusiasm for storm shields is: The kinds of firepower good at rapidly clearing lots of marines aren’t going to be held back too much by storm shields.

changemod wrote:
I’m not sure what all the enthusiasm for storm shields is: The kinds of firepower good at rapidly clearing lots of marines aren’t going to be held back too much by storm shields.

And what kinds of firepower is that?

Aren’t storm shields only 5 pts though? Seems if you’re buying a 200-300pt Vet unit, 1-2 shields aren’t a bad inclusion. I’m still trying to balance the points between my need for more anti tank and wanting the big squad(s) to SIA with, but I was thinking running 1 of the aggressor units and one of Vets to DS in with something like:
1 VV - bolt pistol and chainsword
1 Terminator - storm bolter and power sword
2 Vets - storm bolter and ss
4 vets - storm bolter and chainsword
2 vets - frag cannon

Just all those points aren’t leaving much for putting in hellblasters or RG dev squads for some more AT. I still think SIA shots with the +wound are surprisingly good AT, but it’s an expensive way to do it.

RogueApiary wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The weapons in the Kill Team Box are for Vets only and aren't available to the Primaris models in any way. The primary draw to the Vets in general is access to some of the Kill Team special weapons like Frag Cannons and Storm Bolters.

Good to know! As I said, I'm still waiting on my codex but wanted to work on some of this over the weekend. Sounds like I'll be assembling vets as normal then . How are HTH's and black shield looking? Would making them assaulty be any good?

Can't give an HTH to a Blackshield, part of why they're so terrible is that they can only go on models with two attacks. Black shields could be good in a CC focused squad but I have no experience running CC squads.

If I had to kit out for melee, I'd go for thunder hammers/bolters for damage with some chainsword or Bolter/storm shields to tank high AP and maybe a single Terminator with power sword/storm shield to tank poor AP weapons. Power swords don't really do anything a Boltgun with SIA can do from 9" or a Primaris bolt rifle can do from 12". Chainswords are free, but kitting out a squad with them for chaff clearing doesn't make sense when DW have some of the best ranged chaff clear marines can take. Power axes could potentially put in work when you add in the +1 to wound strat. Wounding most vehicles on 4's rerolling 1's with -2 AP sounds tasty.

Really, I think Deathwatch's niche is close to mid range shooting backed up with the occasional punch in CC. Frag Cannons are good, storm bolters are good, storm shields on regular bolter vets are good. You can't go wrong with those as the core of your veteran collection. I also highly recommend magnetizing your arms so you can try new loadouts on a whim. Normally I don't bother magnetizing infantry, but DW just have so many potential loadouts you'd be doing yourself a disservice long term not to keep your options open.

Corvuses are good if you accept that they are a flying Rhino and you don't factor them into your offensive output.

Thanks for the breakdown, it certainly helps -- it really is too bad that the HTH seems rather limited :( -- I like the sounds of SS/Bolter vets. I didn't think about magnetizing, but that's also a good point. With all the conversion work I'm going to be doing, I might as well drill a couple of extra holes!

changemod wrote:
I’m not sure what all the enthusiasm for storm shields is: The kinds of firepower good at rapidly clearing lots of marines aren’t going to be held back too much by storm shields.

The idé is to take the most of the damage on the terminators and only the high AP multiple wounds on the shield.

My current draft for primaris kt would look something like this:

10 dudes split into combat squats:
S1:
Intercessor sergeant auto bolt rifle (power sword if desired)
Intercessor auto bolt rifle
Aggressor auto boltstorm gauntlets fragstorm granate launcher
Interceptor 2 assaut bolters
+either another aggressor or interceptor

S2:
3 Intercessor 3 bolt rifles
2 Hellblaster 2 heavy plasma incinerator

Points are hovering a bit over 300.
The first squat has T5 as majority and can advance without penalty to get closer to the chaff they should clear.
The second squad offers some AT with some cheaper wounds around who use kraken ammo to get to the same range as the plasma or hellfire if monsters need killing.

Any thoughts on how to improve this?

 combatcotton wrote:
My current draft for primaris kt would look something like this:

10 dudes split into combat squats:
S1:
Intercessor sergeant auto bolt rifle (power sword if desired)
Intercessor auto bolt rifle
Aggressor auto boltstorm gauntlets fragstorm granate launcher
Interceptor 2 assaut bolters
+either another aggressor or interceptor

S2:
3 Intercessor 3 bolt rifles
2 Hellblaster 2 heavy plasma incinerator

Points are hovering a bit over 300.
The first squat has T5 as majority and can advance without penalty to get closer to the chaff they should clear.
The second squad offers some AT with some cheaper wounds around who use kraken ammo to get to the same range as the plasma or hellfire if monsters need killing.

Any thoughts on how to improve this?

My first question - what constraints are you under? It's assumed you're limited somewhere since you're trying to do it all with one squad.