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Made in us
Parachuting Bashi Bazouk




Bowie, MD

I'd really like to see them add in scenario books for each of the films like LOTR had.

I think that when working with a property like this that would be a really big seller. If they could also try to include scenarios for X-Wing & Armada in those books to fully round out the films I think that would be awesome. I don't play those games but it would make it hard for me not to.

I'm a big fan of what I've read of the rules but I have yet to actually play a game. Adult with a full-time job and friends with their own jobs & kids, etc.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Doesn't fit FFG's MO for miniatures games. Rules will come out in the form of cards and dials, always bundled with figures whether you want them or not. That way you can spread the content of one supplement book over several boxes of figures, make people buy duplicates if they want multiple copies of a card to upgrade multiple squads with, that kind of thing. Why say "Rebel squads may upgrade to Veterans for 2 points, gaining a reroll" in a book when you can print that on a card and sell it in a box of New Rebels in Top Hats, tie mechanics to exhausting cards so you need duplicates of the card, etc.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/26 17:31:04


You ain't nothin' but a hormagaunt... cryin' all the time...

40k:  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 LunarSol wrote:
My first impression of the game was that it was basically someone's personal "if I made 40k this is how I'd fix it" game.

I keep hearing that it is a version of the Dust Warfare rules. Having not played DW, does anybody know how true it is?

I'm this close to pulling the trigger on Legion. I really liked BattleLore 2e, which FFG killed in favor of Runewars TMG. It took a while to get over that and try Runewars TMG, which I really liked (it's in my top games). But now, it appears that FFG has killed that in favor of Legion. I like Star Wars and I generally like the games that FFG puts out, but I don't care for how fickle FFG can be with these things. And I also hear that Legion lacks dice, which is a FFG staple, but it seems particularly bad with Legion. I kind of want some guarantees, and though Star Wars is generally safer than FFG's other series, I need something that edges Legion past my concerns (and, let's face it, bitterness)
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Street Judge






RVA

@jake

did you have any contact with Runewars minis before handling the Legion stuff you received?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ElvisJuice wrote:
Doesn't fit FFG's MO for miniatures games. Rules will come out in the form of cards and dials, always bundled with figures whether you want them or not. That way you can spread the content of one supplement book over several boxes of figures, make people buy duplicates if they want multiple copies of a card to upgrade multiple squads with, that kind of thing. Why say "Rebel squads may upgrade to Veterans for 2 points, gaining a reroll" in a book when you can print that on a card and sell it in a box of New Rebels in Top Hats, tie mechanics to exhausting cards so you need duplicates of the card, etc.

Descent 2e had a scenario book published for it, but it was largely a replacement for the substandard scenario book in the core box. It is likely that if they do a scenario book, it will be included in a box with miniatures (like Imperial Assault's big box expansions, or the Dust Tactics operations).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Runewars doesn't appear to have been abandoned. The Uthuk expansions are all on their way along with a new unit for the other factions. I'm not sure the game itself is exactly flying off shelves, but I'd peg that more on a pretty dull setting and models more than anything.

As for expansions and upgrade cards; FFG seems to be doing better with Legion; at least initially. All of the generic upgrade cards in the expansions are the same for each faction; so getting Rebel units gives you the same cards as Imperial ones. Moreover, they're even being nicer with the singles of stuff in the Core box. New cards in the Stormtrooper single are also in the Snowtrooper single for example, so you're not really forced to purchase the singles of stuff from the Core this time around. It's still not perfect and I'd rather have a digital solution any day of the week, but its a lot better.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 LunarSol wrote:
Runewars doesn't appear to have been abandoned. The Uthuk expansions are all on their way along with a new unit for the other factions. I'm not sure the game itself is exactly flying off shelves, but I'd peg that more on a pretty dull setting and models more than anything.

RW is dull mainly because it's just line troops (so far?). The monsters and heroes are pretty cool.

As for expansions and upgrade cards; FFG seems to be doing better with Legion; at least initially. All of the generic upgrade cards in the expansions are the same for each faction; so getting Rebel units gives you the same cards as Imperial ones. Moreover, they're even being nicer with the singles of stuff in the Core box. New cards in the Stormtrooper single are also in the Snowtrooper single for example, so you're not really forced to purchase the singles of stuff from the Core this time around. It's still not perfect and I'd rather have a digital solution any day of the week, but its a lot better.

Runewars is the same way. The general cards are available in boxes for all factions, with the faction-specific cards are repeated between boxes. It's pretty good, except for the power discrepancy between the core and individual unit boxes. It feels like Runewars was just dry run for Legion.

Maybe you can answer a question for me. With Runewars, it is cheaper to just buy two cores than the buy one core and individual unit boxes. However, the core sets are missing powerful upgrade cards from the unit boxes. So, core x2 doesn't have the Wind Rune upgrade from the archer box, which greatly improves the archers. Is Legion like that? Is there a Legion wiki anywhere that I can use to figure out what cards come in each box? The core boxes also include unique heroes, so if you double up, you end up with redundant characters.

Also, second question: Legion uses some weird proprietary measuring stick. To those who are used to measuring tape, how is this doohickey? Seems like on a busy table, it'd get in the way more often than not. They also sell it separately. Is it worth having more than one?
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

Thankfully, the single boxes for Rebel and Empire troops just includes grappling hooks and I think 1 new grenade type. Both are useful, but not 100% must includes in your list as they have specific uses. Grenades require range band 1.

The range sticks are literally just 6" measuring sticks. So range 1 is 6", range 4 is 24". You can easily use a tape measure to avoid buying extra sticks. Movement is mostly the same for infantry. Vehicles still need to obey the turning and such.

On another topic:
One thing I'm seeing is that a lot of players aren't making use of area terrain. It's a staple of many modern wargames, but definitely not used to their full extent here. There's rules for them right in the main rulebook.

Another +1 for Legion that they actually have full terrain rules, instead of just janky specific rules for purchased terrain sets.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Sqorgar wrote:
Is Legion like that? Is there a Legion wiki anywhere that I can use to figure out what cards come in each box? The core boxes also include unique heroes, so if you double up, you end up with redundant characters.

Also, second question: Legion uses some weird proprietary measuring stick. To those who are used to measuring tape, how is this doohickey? Seems like on a busy table, it'd get in the way more often than not. They also sell it separately. Is it worth having more than one?


http://starwarslegion.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Legion_Wiki

To answer the question of whether or not Legion's individual upgrades are necessary... I'd say no. In part this is because you can get the upgrades elsewhere; The snowtrooper expansion contains the same new upgrades as the stormtrooper expansion. You get the new speeder upgrade in the AT-ST. (This is true of the Rebel stuff: Rebel Trooper stuff in Fleet Trooper expansions, AT-RT stuff in Snowspeeder).

The upgrades not in the core set are the following:
Comms-Jammer: Enemies can't give orders to models within 6" of the thing with the jammer. Not useless, but limited range.
Grappling Hooks: Ignore the potential damage from climbing. Table dependent; damage chance is pretty low anyway. Climbing is restrictive enough to have limited value.
Impact Grenades: 6" range attacks that ignore armor. Potentially powerful, but limited threat range. Probably the best of them, but doesn't feel like the best vehicle solution.

So a pretty limited selection that is available via other means. I definitely don't feel like I'm missing anything.
   
Made in us
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West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Holy, ever-loving crap, are people being insanely critical in this thread. You would think Legion has the worst rules ever written, models that hearken back to the days of melty Mage Knight prepaints, and an FFG representative kicks you in the crotch with every purchase and forces you to thank them.

It's a wargame, people. And while the models are not the epitome of HIPs plastic, they come at a fraction of the cost of many other tabletop wargames.

God, it's like the days of when Armada released and people screamed about how they were being ripped off by FFG because the squadron pieces not being prepainted, and dragging the quality of the prepaints over the coals.

As I am not in the know, so far I don't even see a lack of an issue with cross-faction upgrade packaging like with Xwing and Armada, which people were doom and glooming about before the game even released.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/26 21:52:42




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Alright, dismissing the criticism of the figures - fine, that's subjective, each to their own. Calling them "a fraction of the cost of many other tabletop wargames", though?

Which?!

I've got the basic infantry models coming out at £3 a model after discount, £21.50 for one squad.

What are we comparing that to?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:

The upgrades not in the core set are the following:
Comms-Jammer: Enemies can't give orders to models within 6" of the thing with the jammer. Not useless, but limited range.
Grappling Hooks: Ignore the potential damage from climbing. Table dependent; damage chance is pretty low anyway. Climbing is restrictive enough to have limited value.
Impact Grenades: 6" range attacks that ignore armor. Potentially powerful, but limited threat range. Probably the best of them, but doesn't feel like the best vehicle solution.

Could be a lot worse, I suppose... I still don't like this way of doing things compared to just putting the rules in books, but if they aren't ripping the piss with it too much then that's OK

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 22:33:09


You ain't nothin' but a hormagaunt... cryin' all the time...

40k:  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 jake wrote:
 ScarletRose wrote:
Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?


So... is the theory here that repeating the word 'mediocre' over and over will somehow change other people's opinions? Seems like wishful thinking tbh.


I'm just stating my own. Obviously different people are going to have different standards, and some people simply won't care about sharper details, better quality plastic or cleaner casting (for any number of reasons). And thats fine. But if you do care about that stuff and you were hoping for a set of well done, quality models, I think its understandable to be disappointed.

For those of you who don't actually own the models yet but think they look great based on Fantasy Flight's photos or videos of models given to painters before the release, I'd really recommend taking a close look at the models in person before you decide to buy (or buy more than you already have.

I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.


I really love the fact that my ATST only cost $40, had it been GW it would have easily cost $125 or $150 USD.
   
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Myrtle Creek, OR

AT-ST are like imperial guard sentinels, right?
   
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 privateer4hire wrote:
AT-ST are like imperial guard sentinels, right?
The chickenwalkers yeah.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

In size they are bigger than Imperial Knights.

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/27 01:11:36


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It's got chicken legs!!!
Spoiler:



That said, in the grand schem of things its not as much plastic as it seems. It's definitely big, but its a lot of empty space between the head and the ground compared to the models its technically taller than.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/27 03:06:03


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

That wouldnt have matter to GW to put it a price tag.
One can't really say the price of infantry figures is cheaper in Legion than compared to GW, but the price of this AT-ST is just insane. In the good sense.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





The vehicles do look nice, but the scale is a bit worrying for game play. An AT-AT would be Titan sized. It limit what vehicles will be usable.
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Chikout wrote:
The vehicles do look nice, but the scale is a bit worrying for game play. An AT-AT would be Titan sized. It limit what vehicles will be usable.


Good. By which I mean, I like this scale for infantry, and if they're going to do it, it's good that they're apparently, so far anyway, not going to go over the top like GW have with 40K since they rolled Apocalypse into the main rules. If the only appearance an AT-AT ever makes in Legion is as terrain or a special scenario(I can imagine a version of the "rolling table" concept from GorkaMorka where terrain moves along by however much per turn going off at one end and coming back at the other in a different layout with the AT-AT static in the centre, representing it advancing on an objective, while your Legion forces skirmish around its feet as the Rebels try to sabotage the walker) I'll be happy.

Not that I would mind seeing a smaller-scale game focused on grand conflicts at some stage, but TBH I find that concept a lot less interesting for Star Wars than I do for 40K.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
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I do hope we see an ATAT and i bet it will be maybe in the $100-150 dollar range... where if GW made it it would be FW and would be over a $1000 so only a few could afford it. The price of the ATST is perfect and shows what is possible. Had GW had made the same thing it would be atleast 3-4x the cost.

People are oh to quick to defend GW and their pricing but in all honest they price the every man out of most of their kits and FW really does a number on it. Always wanted a warhound but my wife would litterally bury me in the back yard if she knew i spent that price on a model. Though I did 3D print one for about $15 with all weapon options. And I justified my 3D printer by getting it on black Friday, it has saved me countless thousands of dollars over the past year.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




It's far too big. And would be pretty useless for most scenarios.

This should have been 6mm scale, I'm hoping they still do them eventually ala Armada
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 Sqorgar wrote:
Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.


I did play it back when I got the rules files and then again a couple of times on the FFG's demo boards at Game On Madrid last december. So far I've found it pretty interesting, and I'm hoping to get some 800 points games to see how it hold up to the standard size.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

I'd say it plays like Bolt Action 2.0, with all the extra star wars silliness on top. So perhaps like MEdge, Konflikt, Gates, etc.

People have been using tables that are way too 40k-like. Aka, empty open streets with giant LoS blocking or way too open buildings spread out between them.

This is not a game for 40k tables, and instead players should look to Bolt Action and similar tables to see what kind of terrain to setup. Lots of area terrain, chest high walls (barricades) where appropriate such as around houses and structures.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Thebiggesthat wrote:
This should have been 6mm scale, I'm hoping they still do them eventually ala Armada


Star Wars is really a hero driven franchise. 6mm would make it hard to sell on the backs of Vader and Luke and the rest. It's also not a scale the franchise has ever used for a "fair fight". Pretty much every 6mm scale battle in the Star Wars universe is a completely one sided affair to show how hopeless open warfare would be against the bad guys. I actually initially felt the battles in the game would be a little too large for Star Wars, but with heroes taking up a quarter of the army it ends up being pretty small scale and about the right size overall. Closer to Endor or Scarif than Endor or Naboo.
   
Made in us
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Myrtle Creek, OR

I was reading on boardgamegeek that the core box doesn't come with the full rules. Sorry if it's been covered ad nauseum on this thread. Where are the advanced rules if this is correct about the core box?
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/86/db/86dbf9d4-fb20-4f6a-bf5a-5297a62f60aa/swl_rules_reference_11_eng.pdf
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

They're FREE online, like almost all modern wargame rules should be with how they need to be updated so often.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

 LunarSol wrote:
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/86/db/86dbf9d4-fb20-4f6a-bf5a-5297a62f60aa/swl_rules_reference_11_eng.pdf


Thanks. So players need the PDF to play the advanced rules?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vertrucio wrote:
They're FREE online, like almost all modern wargame rules should be with how they need to be updated so often.


Got it. Thanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/27 16:40:47


 
   
Made in us
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 privateer4hire wrote:


Thanks. So players need the PDF to play the advanced rules?



It's essentially the detailed rules for things the core box doesn't cover. Really the only really important thing is that it contains the rules for custom terrain. The core box only uses the barricades that come in the set (on a total tangent, those barricades are awesome and will become a part of my Infinity collection immediately) so the PDF includes stuff like forests and climbing and stuff like that.

The vast bulk of that document is a giant reference/FAQ. Want to know how to rules specifically interact or the timing of conflicting modifiers? Look up the rule in there and it will provide some pretty detailed examples of how to resolve... pretty much everything.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So after reading some of the negative reviews on here I got my preorder set, late as usual but never the less.

So I looked over and did some prefitting before gluing. There was nothing that required any hot water bending at all. The details on the miniatures seem crisp and were a breeze to assemble. There was only a few places i had to hit with the razor knife on two models in the whole set.

The models are a lot better then the privateer press plastic models I have worked with. The plastic has some give and does not snap like privateer press models sometimes do.

Overall I would rank the models at a solid 8/10, only due to some of the monopose nature of the models. Easily one of the best models on the market for the money. I will be buying in heavy.
   
 
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