10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

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**NAVARRO**

leopard wrote:
Nevelon wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Nevelon wrote:

GW did a slip case set for 6th. (Might have been 7th, it’s been a while)

Yes, but that was a fluff book, an art book, and the rules. They're asking for something more like the 3rd Ed BBB with the army lists built in.

Same basic idea. Have multiple parts so you don’t need to drag the whole damn tome to game night every time. Just replace art book with starter army index.

this, 100% this

The idea looks good on paper but I would expect GW to do it in a way you would pay more for more books

**Necronmaniac05**

I'm definitely in favour of maybe splitting the books out like they've done previously. Personally I'm hoping they:

Move away from you go/I go to alternate activations - seems highly unlikely but I played firefight from mantic the other week which uses AA and it's so much better.

Streamline the attack sequence - removing the to wound roll for most units sounds great to me. Again firefight works much like this. You roll to hit against a fixed BS stat then roll to beat the targets armour stat to inflict damage and that's it. Some heavy armoured units have rules requiring you to re roll successful damage rolls (again similar to what's being rumoured here with certain units still needing a to wound roll). Much quicker and simpler though.

Cap weapon damage - I like that not all guns do 1 damage but damage in 9th has gotten so far out of hand it's silly. Please just introduce a design principle that just says 'no weapon in the game can do more than X damage per shot'. How you get to X or even if you get to X can be flexible (it could be a flat value, a dice roll or dice + flat value) but X is the absolute limit. Let's not have what we got with the Tau codex in 9th.

Massively reduce stratagems - give me 6 or 7 strats with broader application across most units in my army rather than 20+ but most of which are useless.

Move away from D6s - again massively unlikely for tenth but trying to distinguish betwee the shooting ability of a vindicare assassin and an Ork boy on a scale of 1-6 just doesn't give you the range IMO.

**Tsagualsa**

Short headsup, i added today's video to the OP - it contains the following:

Edit 20/15/2023

The newest Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qibkDA_WQsE mostly about Space Marines and their derivatives!

- Dark Angels will get some sort of bodyguard unit to go wit Lion'El Johnson called the Lionguard according to trusted sources
- Blood Angels: Dante is done and shall be revealed soon
- Speculation about redone Sanguinary Guard
- Still doubling down 100% on SM vs. Tyranids in 10th box set
- Space Wolves: only speculation
- Grey Knights: no rumours
- Other chapters : Cato Sicarius as a focal character in 10th
- Speculation about a new Lysander in new Terminator armour
- Unspecified chapter-specific supplements originally scheduled for 9th will appear in 10th
- New Models in general:
- New Librarian and Terminators in 10th starter
- New Jump Assault Marines are done and will release soon, their models informed the videogame Space Marine II
- Again mentions allowing classic marine transports to transport Primaris in 10th
- 'Maybe' a new Space Marine flyer, but not the Overlord

Unfortunately the chronological listings seem to be bungled somehow due to the nested spoilers and quotes - i can't take the time to fix that just yet, but i'm aware of the problem and will do so soon-ish.

**Brickfix**

Thank you for compiling the video

**Tsagualsa**

Brickfix wrote:
Thank you for compiling the video

That one was especially bad with padding and speculation, there were about a combined 2 minutes of actual rumours in north of 20 minutes of runtime

**Leggy**

So lots more contradicting rumours (starter box contents, no overlord) combined with obvious-seeming rumours (New Dante, jump marines that look like the Space Marine 2 game) and something new out of left field (Lionguard).
True or not, I can't say, but this batch of rumours lacks weight.

**Dudeface**

Leggy wrote:
So lots more contradicting rumours (starter box contents, no overlord) combined with obvious-seeming rumours (New Dante, jump marines that look like the Space Marine 2 game) and something new out of left field (Lionguard).
True or not, I can't say, but this batch of rumours lacks weight.

To be fair to the man, he's been saying about Dante for a few months now, so it only seems obvious because of reverb at this point maybe.

**Mentlegen324**

Leggy wrote:
So lots more contradicting rumours (starter box contents, no overlord) combined with obvious-seeming rumours (New Dante, jump marines that look like the Space Marine 2 game) and something new out of left field (Lionguard).
True or not, I can't say, but this batch of rumours lacks weight.

I've felt this way with pretty much all the rumours so far. They're nearly all something pretty obvious and easy to guess as coming at some point combined with something that just sounds plausible but easy to make up as their own unique version of the rumours that already exist.

**Kanluwen**

I hope Dante gets dreadnoughted.

Dude's supposed to be the oldest non-Traitor Marine still around, right? Off him and let someone new step up.

Lionguard is basically guaranteed to happen, while Shrike sits around twiddling his thumbs like a goon.

**Leggy**

Dudeface wrote:
Leggy wrote:
So lots more contradicting rumours (starter box contents, no overlord) combined with obvious-seeming rumours (New Dante, jump marines that look like the Space Marine 2 game) and something new out of left field (Lionguard).
True or not, I can't say, but this batch of rumours lacks weight.

To be fair to the man, he's been saying about Dante for a few months now, so it only seems obvious because of reverb at this point maybe.

Not really. GW have been slowly updating spacial characters to primaris since the range reboot in 8th, and slowly converting any metal (now resin) models into plastic since finecast debuted in 2011. EVENTUALLY a new Dante has to arrive.
Add to that the knowledge that GW will happily sit on new model designs for years, and it's perfectly safe to proclaim any Space Marine character is on its way. When it doesn't arrive, you can just shrug and claim they're holding it back for a later release/2nd wave/ it got shy.

This isn't to say Valrak is lying or acting maliciously. He simply parrots what he's told, regardless of veracity or reliability, to keep up a constant stream of content. I simply lack faith in this rumour drop.

**EviscerationPlague**

Kanluwen wrote:
I hope Dante gets dreadnoughted.

Dude's supposed to be the oldest non-Traitor Marine still around, right? Off him and let someone new step up.

He's one of the oldest. There's definitely other Marines implied to be just as old or older, like the current Carcharodons librarian (if memory serves me right)

**drbored**

Does anyone else just sort of... 'check out' around the year of a new warhammer 40k edition?

I remember this happening for 9th. Rumors started ramping up for more space marines and I struggled to stay interested. Now, my eyes just start glazing over and I strap in for the fact that this is all we'll hear about for the next 4-5 months up to reveal and release, and then the next 2-3 months after will be about all the shiny new stuff space marines get, and then maybe, MAYBE once we get into the Winter we'll be free and can enjoy other factions getting updated...

**Dudeface**

drbored wrote:
Does anyone else just sort of... 'check out' around the year of a new warhammer 40k edition?

I remember this happening for 9th. Rumors started ramping up for more space marines and I struggled to stay interested. Now, my eyes just start glazing over and I strap in for the fact that this is all we'll hear about for the next 4-5 months up to reveal and release, and then the next 2-3 months after will be about all the shiny new stuff space marines get, and then maybe, MAYBE once we get into the Winter we'll be free and can enjoy other factions getting updated...

The space marines entails a faction reboot of someone else. More people play marines, hence more people are invested in their changes, so you hear more about them.

**Tsagualsa**

Dudeface wrote:
drbored wrote:
Does anyone else just sort of... 'check out' around the year of a new warhammer 40k edition?

I remember this happening for 9th. Rumors started ramping up for more space marines and I struggled to stay interested. Now, my eyes just start glazing over and I strap in for the fact that this is all we'll hear about for the next 4-5 months up to reveal and release, and then the next 2-3 months after will be about all the shiny new stuff space marines get, and then maybe, MAYBE once we get into the Winter we'll be free and can enjoy other factions getting updated...

The space marines entails a faction reboot of someone else. More people play marines, hence more people are invested in their changes, so you hear more about them.

Marines are also somewhat easier to describe accurately than tyranids for someone who does not play them and has no interest in the range. 'There's ones with big multipart guns, there's ones with shields and hammers and then there's bigger ones with rocketpods on their back' is easier to make sense of than 'Theres a big one with some things in its hands, about 20 smaller ones with claws and 3 medium dudes that look weird and floaty'

**Tyel**

Maybe I just like new models, but a new edition usually promotes interest to me.

Last time round was clearly a bit weird as it occurred in and around Covid lockdowns that kind of made it feel like the edition didn't properly start for a year or so.

**Geifer**

Dudeface wrote:
drbored wrote:
Does anyone else just sort of... 'check out' around the year of a new warhammer 40k edition?

I remember this happening for 9th. Rumors started ramping up for more space marines and I struggled to stay interested. Now, my eyes just start glazing over and I strap in for the fact that this is all we'll hear about for the next 4-5 months up to reveal and release, and then the next 2-3 months after will be about all the shiny new stuff space marines get, and then maybe, MAYBE once we get into the Winter we'll be free and can enjoy other factions getting updated...

The space marines entails a faction reboot of someone else. More people play marines, hence more people are invested in their changes, so you hear more about them.

I like Marines and I'm interested in seeing what they get, even if for my taste Primaris produce more duds than good models. Hopefully the rumors about Tyranids being the opposing force are true since Tyranids are cool, too. But I agree with the sentiment that GW's big summer releases are a bit of a slog. Perhaps it shouldn't feel like that due to GW's considerable output (which has a flip side, see below) these days and both AoS and the range of specialist games getting attention while 40k is focused on the new Marines and NPC release, but it certainly does to me.

It's not just Marines and 40k either. I had similar feelings about Sigmarines and knockoff orcs when 3rd ed AoS came around.

In a way GW is so productive these days that the big, long drawn out release highlight that is a new edition is somewhat less exciting than the usual release schedule because these days you can be pretty sure that there's a new thing every month. Novelty of the edition poster children wears off as quickly as any other release and the miniature output is not massively larger than what random mid-edition codices can get, but occupies two or three times as much time.

**xttz**

Here's a pastebin doing the rounds on Discord. I have no idea on the source and definitely can't say how reliable it is, but we're only really competing with Valrak here so

there is a new digital ecosystem coming
digital strategy is baked in and hinges on the redesigned web site, including builder and a new app version

You now have a digital collection. These are small pages with content for every army you have bought and an enhanced shop page for every unit you have collected. There are codes in the boxes and publications to unlock a collected item. The content is usually a codex or vault excerpt, artwork, painting tutorials, but sometimes downloadable wallpapers additional gaming profiles for the unit or a paint scheme showcase

All these profiles are predefined. The weapon choices are made for you. These are only for starter missions

For customizable units, designed for campaign and pick up play, you need the codex. This unlocks all the options in the new app or the army builder in the shop. These builders construct an army roster for you with profiles for each unit. on these generated profiles all the relevant choices you have made, are baked in

If you have collected a codex, you automatically get digital access to additional options released in other publications for the army, for the duration of the edition.

You need a subscription for access to the army builder for anything above starter missions

The core rules are free and the starter mission pack is free. You can play a starter game without a codex or rulebook, just with the profiles in the boxes you have bought

Both a printed version of the profile and a digital code come in the box

Codex publications come with a code, but you can also buy the codes digitally. But this doesn't give you a digital version of the codex, just the unlocks collection page of the army and the units and makes the content available in army builder

When you buy the rulebook or a seasonal rulebook, you get access to further mission packs suited for campaign and more detailed pick up play.

In these formats you can customize your units and the app generates the in-game profiles for you. These profiles are compatible with the starter profiles, but you can make all the decisions

You can theoretically do this by hand if you have the codex, but it is tedious to copy all the rules by hand. Printing your generated profiles from the app is easier

The app has no in-game functionality besides looking at your profiles and the rules

The codex has all the customizable options and build-a-unit datasheets. It unlocks these options in the army builder

You need both the codex and the publication with the mission pack to built an army for the respective kind of mission. at the beginning of the edition the purchase of the warhosts tome gives you access to all the armies at once

Erratas, revised construction datasheets, point adjustments are free for subscribers and released digitally only

The plan is to leave the predefined profiles unchanged for the duration of the edition, but i don't know how this will break cross-compatibility eventually

The army builder can be used for free for the core rules and starter mission pack

A W+ subscription gives you access to all the predefined profiles from all armies without needing to buy all the boxes. But you still need the box to add a unit to your collection for the immersive content

The edition starts with the Vigil of Blood box for hooked players and a series of mini starter boxes for beginners. these can be bought at a time or as a discounted subscription or all at once once they are released. These boxes have the same plastic terrain and units as the veteran box, but also contain tools and paints and step-by-step manuals. buying all boxes gives exactly all the starter box models + hobby items. First box is building two characters. After three boxes you can play the first game with a simple color scheme. The last three boxes are not as dense as the first ones

Grand Tournament packs are released once a year. They are exclusively released as a bundle of booklet and terrain. GT is its separate ecosystem now, with its own rules, profiles and point costs. This pack gives you digitally access to the Grand Tournament unit profiles. It is supposed to be a really tight ruleset. The launch box has a mountain of terrain and will be the most expensive bundle in Gw history. GT is separated in the app from the matched play mission and has its own builder - a reskinned version of the old app. The builder is sleeker because you cannot customize units. It has a clock, a scoresheet and a QR interface to share the scoresheet. The GT section is only available with a code in the pack. Further down the road, annual packs will have only half the terrain

Codex Space Marines, Tyranids, Demons and Orks are with the playtesters, as well as Blood Angels, Space Wolves and White Scars supplements

The launch box has fewer models than in the past, but plastic terrain included. I am paraphrasing: 1 winged jump primaris captain, 1 apothecari toxinmaster, 5 sword jump primaris, 5 veteran intercessors, 5 primaris scouts with grenade launchers, heavy offroad atv, 1 shrike prime, 3 shrikes, 8 termagants with fleshborer, 8 termagants with harpoon, 6 melee gargoyles, dreadnought sized trygon, Mosque style low tech buildings, reinforced with scifi tech and walls, improvised and rugged look, some destroyed old columns and centerpiece angel statue, plastic token set

**Tsagualsa**

xttz wrote:
Here's a pastebin doing the rounds on Discord. I have no idea on the source and definitely can't say how reliable it is, but we're only really competing with Valrak here so

I'll add that to the OP after heavy editing

Thanks.

**kodos**

well, reads as if the Mantic Games App/Website and Ambush Sets was taken as base and added the Codex ecosystem on top of it with a little bit of GW moneymaking

**Haighus**

The terrain part puts me in mind of Calderis from DoW2. I think that could be done well.

The digital stuff seems about what you would expect if you wanted to keep monetising digital rules whilst keeping a more "living" ruleset.

**His Master's Voice**

GT is its separate ecosystem now, with its own rules, profiles and point costs. This pack gives you digitally access to the Grand Tournament unit profiles. It is supposed to be a really tight ruleset.

If true, I don't think this is gonna work out. People will see this as the official with a capital O version and within 6 months, all pick up games will be played using those pre-set unit profiles and rules.

In general, the whole thing feels convoluted enough to be real.

**JSG**

Launch sets having fewer minis doesn't seem likely after the success of Indomitus and AoD.

**Tsagualsa**

I added this stuff to the OP.

Short reminder: i'll only go over the thematic summaries at the end of the OP on the weekends when i've got enough time and concentration to do it right, so for now they're a bit incomplete.

**Asmodai**

Having the GT Books come with terrain seems a little backwards since GT players are the ones playing in stores and tournaments that supply terrain already. Unless it's another attempt to push that onto the players and make them supply their own terrain for events.

**Tsagualsa**

Asmodai wrote:
Having the GT Books come with terrain seems a little backwards since GT players are the ones playing in stores and tournaments that supply terrain already. Unless it's another attempt to push that onto the players and make them supply their own terrain for events.

The way i read it is that the Organizer is supposed to buy that kit, to supply 'The Official' tournament terrain and eliminate terrain issues as a source of 'unfairness'. But that's conjecture by me.

**Leggy**

Yet another list of models that completely contradicts all the other lists. Immediately I doubt these rumours.
The digital collection isn't a completely terrible idea. It would require reboxing every 40k model to include a code though. Having some ways to play that require preset unit options and some ways to play that allow customised unit options will infuriate a lot of people.

**Crimson**

I hope this isn't true. Fixed loadouts on GT seems like a terrible idea, and it would most likely become the expected standard for pick up games too.

**Dudeface**

Crimson wrote:
I hope this isn't true. Fixed loadouts on GT seems like a terrible idea, and it would most likely become the expected standard for pick up games too.

Conversely it might be possible to actually balance the damned thing a bit better.

**tneva82**

That gt pack with terrain makes me apply some serious salt on that one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Asmodai wrote:
Having the GT Books come with terrain seems a little backwards since GT players are the ones playing in stores and tournaments that supply terrain already. Unless it's another attempt to push that onto the players and make them supply their own terrain for events.

The way i read it is that the Organizer is supposed to buy that kit, to supply 'The Official' tournament terrain and eliminate terrain issues as a source of 'unfairness'. But that's conjecture by me.

How big box you expect it be? 1k dollars?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leggy wrote:
Yet another list of models that completely contradicts all the other lists. Immediately I doubt these rumours.
The digital collection isn't a completely terrible idea. It would require reboxing every 40k model to include a code though. Having some ways to play that require preset unit options and some ways to play that allow customised unit options will infuriate a lot of people.

New editions result reboxing anyway so that's not that unrealistic

**Tsagualsa**

tneva82 wrote:

How big box you expect it be? 1k dollars?

Well they call it out as 'the most expensive box ever', and the current record holder is probably one of the boxes they did back when they had 'Apocalypse' as a concept.
999$ is a pricepoint i could see.