Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since 6th edition dropped I've toyed with the idea of giving infantry support to my Chimeras as they move up, not so much as a strict bubble wrap but deployed and moved in such a way that charge lanes to the APCs become difficult. But with the considerable nerfs to assault, and the greater speed of Chimeras, I have to question if there's even a point to escorting tanks in such a way. How do you guys protect your Chimeras, if at all? And if not, why not?

I'd like to say that the best way to protect a chimera is by putting 4 more beside it.

Aside from that the most common tactic is popping smoke, but even that lasts for only one turn, and it rarely stops an opponent from killing them if they dedicate a modicum of resources to it.

Considering it's guard where talking about, best way to protect a chimera is putting more important vehicles on the table for your opponent to shoot at.

Edit - Also, depending on how aggressive you are with your chimeras, nothing says don't get too close like dual heavy flamers. Or at least one.

id rather make my opponent chew through another 55 points of guard, almost always takes more effort then a lone chimera,

Honestly? I don't bother bringing them anymore, they're just too damn easy to kill even in large numbers thanks to hull points.

That said, yeah, more the merrier if you're going to bother bringing them at all.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Honestly? I don't bother bringing them anymore, they're just too damn easy to kill even in large numbers thanks to hull points.

That said, yeah, more the merrier if you're going to bother bringing them at all.

Out of curiosity, what are you using to get up the field then? Airborne troops?

The only protection they need, is the imperial faith, Emperor be praised.

Three ways:

1) Bring chimerae, a lot of chimerae.
2) Bring bigger AV:12 threats like Medusae, Vendettas and Manticores
3) ADL

Mine sit behind the ADL (and actually protect the even scarier stuff behind them) until it's safe to come out and play. If things go as they're supposed to, the gunline takes out everything that can cause immediate harm to the transports before they get very far down the road.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Honestly? I don't bother bringing them anymore, they're just too damn easy to kill even in large numbers thanks to hull points.

That said, yeah, more the merrier if you're going to bother bringing them at all.

Out of curiosity, what are you using to get up the field then? Airborne troops?

I had been running a carapace horde with DKoK carapace engineers put scoring units in the backfield, but since they ruined the hades utility I've basically just been adding tons more basic guarsdmen and more heavy weapons and not trying to cross the field but blow the enemy off their side and hold easily accessible spots.

Protecting a chimera is heresy, a glorious death in service to the Emperor is the reason for IG existence and taking that from them is just down right wrong.

Are you winning? I usually find that mechvets use their chimera's as sacrificial goats to gain advantage. Such as tank shocking one or two of them and then heavy flaming the unit(s) tank shocked or even dropping blasts on the unit even though you kill your own vehicles. In fact I usually go into the fight expecting my chimeras to have 90%+ casualty rates.

I take one Chimera; that Chimera is packed full with my CCS.

Even a Gunline should have a Chimera for their CCS; 5 guardsmen is just too easy to kill.

A 12/10/10 Vehicle Behind an Aegis with Camo nets is a nice little buffer for them.

I run 4 chimeras and 2-3 leman russ chassis. I don't think they are too easy to kill, namely because I usually put the 'russes in front of them.

More Chimeras, at least in my local meta people are going bat crazy over infantry so they take more and more anti personal weapons and skimp on the AT. It has become the opposite of their 5th ed meta. I exploit this my cramming as many tanks in as I can. Just like in 5th I exploited the meltaspam by only running Russes and blobs.

I protect mine through target saturation. If my opponent is shooting at my Chimeras then they're not shooting at other, more valuable targets that are on the field. I think that the key to Guard is to keep everything more or less expendable, that way, nothing needs protecting because you don't need any one unit for success.

 SkaerKrow wrote:
I protect mine through target saturation. If my opponent is shooting at my Chimeras then they're not shooting at other, more valuable targets that are on the field. I think that the key to Guard is to keep everything more or less expendable, that way, nothing needs protecting because you don't need any one unit for success.

This. Individual Chimeras are fragile. Multiple Chimeras with Medusas/Hellhounds/etc are still fragile, but even when your opponent kills some of them there's still plenty of firepower left.

I've been kind of fumbling with this myself recently.

I don't think that assault is anywhere near your biggest problem. As mentioned, assault is practically dead. Furthermore, assaulting units get the joy of facing two rounds of shooting and two rounds of overwatch before they can finally land a blow in close combat. When we're talking about something with as many scary weapons as a vet squad, I wouldn't be too fearful.

The real challenge to chimeras, of course, is shooting. I suppose you could give yourself an ADL, but, like all ADL-based armies, that sort of traps you in your own deployment zone. If you're bringing a bunch of chimeras, you're eventually rolling 1's to get over your own defense line.

Instead, I like the idea of offensive defense better. Namely, your support units exist for the sole purpose of neutralizing your opponent's best anti-chimera weapons before they can pose all that serious of a threat to your chimeras. A dead tri-las predator isn't going to hurt your chimera shield wall...

Honestly, from my very limited experience, I'm finding that the biggest problems aren't on defense, but are on offense. Closing range leaves you exposed, while closing less range and popping smoke makes you slower. Furthermore, while the transports are faster, their gunboatness is slower, what with snap firing at higher speeds. I've also been running mine behind russes as of late, but that forces chimeras to blitz forward at russ speeds - 33% as fast.


In any case, the guard's best way to handle things has traditionally been to kill your opponents first, and then move up and handle the survivors second. That's still probably the way to go with guard, including with mech lists.

I throw my Demolishers in front of them and never have a problem.

Don't forget flank protection. If I'm running my tanks close to a board edge and there are infiltrators about I try to have a penal squad strung out along the board edge to control where they can come in.

One of two ways:

1) By having Eathshakers blast at targets over the top as they move forward

2) Not bothering at all and letting them die as it allows my troops to get closer

They always have Russes with them so if you are shooting my Chimeras you arent shooting my Russes

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
I throw my Demolishers in front of them and never have a problem.

I like this guy.

This guy gets it.

Infantry don't protect Chimeras, Chimeras protect Infantry.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Infantry don't protect Chimeras, Chimeras protect Infantry.

I appreciate that that's probably how things work in real life, when it comes to playing Guard on the tabletop this dynamic is kind of flipped on its head. Most Guard players don't care if their meat shields die in defense of a Chimera, but they would certainly mind if their Chimeras were destroyed protecting expendable grunts.

I'd also like to thank everyone for replying, it seems the dominant answer to my question is to take more and hope enough survive to get the job done, or simply leave them at home because hull point edition blows for transports that don't fly.

 TheCaptain wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
I throw my Demolishers in front of them and never have a problem.

I like this guy.

This guy gets it.

Nice part is that not many people build to counter AV 14 anymore, so you just roll around with your tanks blasting things that can hurt your chimeras.

Chimeras are quite hardy compared to the armo of a rhino as well as the weaponry a Rhino can take. Str6 multilaser isn't a pushover, flamer templates are never out of style. AV 12 front too. Then the fact that you can spam 6+ of them for 300 odd points isn't bad.

It's hard to deal with so many of them on top of the squads popping out of them when you blow them up. A tri las predator should be popping one a turn and you'll lose 3-4 to the explosion, but you've still kept a decent target saturation. It's hard to 1 2 punch a chimera and its squad and stay out of their shooting range unless you've got a heldrake.

Happygrunt wrote: just roll around with your tanks blasting things that can hurt your chimeras.

This has been my exact thesis of late. It hasn't been working out quite as well as I'd hope, though.

Russes don't REALLY lay on the damage until they get into sponson range, by which point it may be too late. Furthermore, only an idiot is going to point those missile launcher longfangs or autocannon havocs at a leman russ. So far, my opponents have been good at ignoring my tanks and just focusing on breaking open the chimeras and feasting on the goo inside.

I guess it really depends on who you're playing and the mission type, but how do you play your chimeras Ailaros? Aggressively or hold them back?

@ Happygrunt
Russ is such a general term, you really need to get the specific variant and sponson options. A standard LRBT can put a hurting on autocannon havocs, but not so much on a Land Raider.

 Wingeds wrote:
I guess it really depends on who you're playing and the mission type, but how do you play your chimeras Ailaros? Aggressively or hold them back?

@ Happygrunt
Russ is such a general term, you really need to get the specific variant and sponson options. A standard LRBT can put a hurting on autocannon havocs, but not so much on a Land Raider.

I run 2 demolishers and an thinking of including a punisher with HB sponsons.

Ive used some chimeras here and there and Ive usually just advance them with some Leman russes leading the charge. Ive started experimenting with other russes such as the exterminator/MM/lascannon which has done prettty good. Ive had trouble finding the best russ to lead charges or give fire support to a charge or even sit back with a gunline. Not a fan of artillery but I like to have heavy armor deal some damage.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
I throw my Demolishers in front of them and never have a problem.

I like this guy.

This guy gets it.

Nice part is that not many people build to counter AV 14 anymore, so you just roll around with your tanks blasting things that can hurt your chimeras.

And what are Demolishers good for? Blasting everything.

Except fliers. And monstrous creatures. And hordes, really. And anything with a serious invulnerable or cover save...

And the problem with advancing behind them is that you're stuck moving only 6" per turn with your chimeras.

Meanwhile, the problem with covering chimeras with something like the punisher is that you have to kill stuff BEFORE it kills your chimeras. Punishers are great, but timeliness is actually important here, which their short range rather lacks.