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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/19 01:24:37
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
Greater Boston Area, USA
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For a while I had all my PIS squads loaded up with flame. In the event that I would get assaulted, I could turn 4-5 flame templates on the enemy. I thought this was pretty awesome, until I looked back on my batreps and realized I hardly ever used them. How did that happen? I guess people were picking other targets to assault, or everyone was tied up in combat, whatever ... I found I wasn't using them.
So what do I take? I see pretty much everyone takes a heavy weapon + 1 melta or 1 plasma. I could never bring myself to build the PIS this way. I only get 1 special weapon at BS3, and felt like I'd be throwing away 10-15 points. I'd rather spend the extra points for a vet squad with a heavy weapon and 3x special weapon. THEN I'd be sitting on some actual firepower. But the PIS is, in my opinion, quantity over quality.
So I've been taking snipers (6 snipers in the platoon). The results are mixed so far. One thing is very clear - they're doing more than flamers, for the same cost. Basically, I'm rolling to hit on every turn, which is a major improvement over a flamer that shoots 0-1 time per game.
Right away - the BS3 snipers are terrible at shooting. Miss, miss, miss, miss. BUT they're able to shoot the same targets that their heavy weapon is shooting at, so I'm rolling more dice. They're adding to the wound pool, and potentially scoring a rending hit. I could do the same with a plasma gun, but at shorter range, and three times the cost. Scoring a melta hit is pure gold, but nobody gets that close to the platoon, unless they are going for the charge.
My Platoon plays a supporting role in my army. The main forces are veterans, Lemans and Vendettas. The Platoon is 60-70 wounds. They hold down all the home objectives and provide a moderate threat to the table. They can absorb most attacks. So, 5 points for a weapon that ignores toughness, has rending and causes a pinning test? I don't know if I love it yet. I'll get back to you when I shoot a warlord in the face from across the table. So far they haven't done much.
I'm looking for how people build their PIS. Anyone have experience with this?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/19 01:43:44
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Douglas Bader
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Snipers are worthless. Take melta guns instead. They might only be useful at close range, but when you do use them you have a good chance of accomplishing something. Snipers, on the other hand, just sit there wasting 5 points turn after turn.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/19 01:46:19
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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First, that isn't how overwatch with flamers, you don't place the template you get D3 hits. Unless you mean you flame them before they assault you or something And that 30 points of snipers, can you really not find a better place for it? I mean, you say you feel like you are wasting 10-15 points for a BS3 special weapon, but you are still wasting points even if it is 5 points for the weapon, if it is still BS3. If the platoon has a HW then it doesn't need help extending it's wound pool range (I don't know a better way to say it). To put it in math terms, you are (on average) going to get 3 hits, and each of those has a 1 in 6 chance of rending. That isn't a great amount of firepower, especially when that same 30 points could make some vets you are using to hold an objective that much more survivable (forward sentries) or one of your assaulting vet squads that much more threatening (demolitions). I like the idea of snipers, and the models, I just don't think they pull their weight
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/19 01:46:59
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/19 01:48:21
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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1st Lieutenant
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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Agreed with Peregrine.
I take either Meltas or Plasmas. Usually meltas though. What this does is while I use a platoon as a combined fire-base, with HW's killing things w/ Lasgun support (I swear, those lasguns do more damage then I would think), nothing wants to get inside 12 inches of me since they would talk all that melta/plasma gun fire. It essentially creates a no-go zone for deep strike and other units, which is good for objective holding (since a full blob is hard to shoot off an objective if you have other, more powerful stuff attracting their attention).
Although I have had great luck with Snipers on occasion, for every bad-ass sniper that blows up a vehicle I have a dozen that sit around wondering how they made it through sniper school
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/19 01:49:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/19 01:49:20
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
Los Gatos, CA
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I’m in the camp of that if men moving cause the weapon to snap fire then I don’t want it in my PCS or PIS’s. I use snipers in squads that are going to be holding down the fort behind defense lines or in SWS. Most fun I have with them is sticking 3 of them in a Harker squad with camo cloaks and a second heavy bolter just for synergy sake. Not the best use of points I know but can be really hard to kill in the right cover.
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BAO 2015 : Best Space Wolves.
The best battle plans are the simplest. Just run forward and punch your enemy in the face. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/19 02:25:06
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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I see where the OP is coming from and I agree to a degree. That said, I think motyak, in the end those points would be better served elsewhere in your army, buying sponsons, giving PCS commanders plasma pistols, HK missiles etc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 01:41:44
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
Greater Boston Area, USA
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motyak wrote:First, that isn't how overwatch with flamers, you don't place the template you get D3 hits. Unless you mean you flame them before they assault you or something
The "flame trap" that I ran for a while was devastating, but certain things had to happen. My enemy would have to charge in and finish combat on their turn (completely kill a single PIS). Then on my turn the remaining 5 PIS would jump on them with 5 templates and wipe them out. It was awesome, but the problem is, who's gonna fall for that twice? Then I've got 2 Storm Ravens dumping death company down my throat, with assault marines up on my doorstep - every single PIS is engaged in combat in a single turn, flame is useless (except D3 overwatch, which does nothing of note). So trapping my enemy in a flame trap requires that I'm playing against a total noob, which I'm not.
Regarding snipers - I'll try them for another game or two. I guess I only see 2 options though : bring the snipers, or just run a HW in the PIS, no special. My Platoon takes such a hard beating! Every game they get their guts kicked in, and I'd be lucky to get 3 hits with plasma or melta before they get mowed down in assault. I don't mind that they die, that's their job, but that's why they can't have nice things. Even if I did, I could take down 3-4 marines? I need to take down nob bikers and chaos spawn, or at least keep them busy.
I think maybe I could use those 30 points toward Straken (90pts total) and give everyone Furious Charge. Or I could spend 130 for 3 Ogryn to help slow the assault. Maybe 1 or 2 priests. I don't know.
The last thing I want to do is upgrade them to vets. Then I'm just packing more points into squads that are exactly the same profile in assault, so now I'm losing 120 points per turn instead of 65. In my last game vs CSM, my vets got into rapid fire range, had a round of plasma, lasguns AND a direct hit with a demo charge, and killed 1 chaos spawn out of 8, and were murdered on the following turn. I face a lot of assault based armies, there is virtually no mid-range shooting game, unless I'm the one advancing on their position.
EDIT: "No mid-range shooting game" = I have 1 round of shooting, maybe, before getting assaulted. If it's a 5 man squad of marines or a single crisis suit, no problem. It's never that. It's mega nobs, dreadnoughts, paladins, or something equally lethal that wants to kill me.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/20 01:54:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 03:22:34
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The only two sniper units in the game worth their points are ratlings and pathfinders (and that is even arguable). For the IG, you can spend 100 points and have 10 BS4 sniper shots on a little guy who comes with stealth. You can get your sniper fix and not waste a valuable plasma slot. Snipers are a waste on any other unit.
If the guys you play with love assaulting you, get yourself a Straken and a priest. You'll get furious charge and counter attack, and you'll be able to re-roll your first round of combat. Ogryn are just not worth it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/20 03:24:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 10:08:13
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Personally, I like Snipers and a good friend of mine swears by them. But then he runs /a lot/ of snipers and other weapons that do pinning. En mass, they work well, specially with ACs. If I have a camping PCS, I like giving them 4 Sniper Rifles or 2 Snipers and a AC.
To me, the real thing you may have to look at is your tactics, rather than the weapon itself. Your not running a blob with a Commissar, so when you get assaulted, your done. At that point, yeah... it doesn't matter /what/ the special weapon is, because you get 1 shot with it at BS 1 (2 shots for plasma...and your even up to kill yourself at that point with 'Gets Hot!') when your shooting it in overwatch. This is the price you pay for a few more bodies and a extra BS 3 HWT shot.
If your getting hammered that bad by regular power armor, I would run 2 blob squads of 20. Deck out with 2 ACs/LCs and 2 plasma (for synergy with the lasguns) or melta (for IDing marines and ignoring FNP), a Commissar, 2 Melta bombs on the sarges and power swords on your sergeants and Commissar. Yes... Power Swords. I am saying go old school because now your having at least 2 guys that will have their attacks ignore their armor and you have something that can blow up a cheater claw dread. The Commissar jacks up their Ld and gives them Stubborn. If you really want to make them the best they can be in CC, get a Priest (with a chainfist) and even a second Commissar. At that point, you don't care about Challenges, because you have 4-5 characters that all ignore 3+ saves that can accept (you choose). Keep a CCS back there with a Regimental Banner for a Ld re-roll and Orders (as well as 1-3 more plasma shots). FRFSRF, FomT, and BiD can cover a lot of different situations and make your blobs something that guys may not /want/ to assault/get close to
Is this worth it? You tell me... running a bunch of single PIS is not working apparently. Dropping the 6 down to 4 and using those points to make them better or possibly actually survive the CC is probably the next logical step. To be honest, your dice must be really bad if your doing that bad on overwatch... you know your in Rapid Fire range at that point, right? Hell, make sure you get the Officer of the Fleet if your facing that much DSing assault and slap him on your CCS.
Personally, I find Straken to be a waste unless I am moving my blobs up with the goal of assaulting. Since his CCS wants to charge into combat, I am half tempted to run LP/CCW or 3-4 Melta. The Regimental Banner is nice for the +1 wound and Ld re-roll. Nork or Bodyguards and/or Advisors to give you as many bodies as possible really help too. At that point, Kell even looks attractive due to his CC load-out... but this makes the unit super expensive. Your pushing 150pts with Straken naked. This becomes the focus of your list.
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 10:32:42
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Cheesedoodler wrote:The only two sniper units in the game worth their points are ratlings and pathfinders (and that is even arguable). For the IG, you can spend 100 points and have 10 BS4 sniper shots on a little guy who comes with stealth. You can get your sniper fix and not waste a valuable plasma slot. Snipers are a waste on any other unit.
Yes, but then you have filthy mutant scum in your army! That won't do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 11:29:11
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
Chandler, Arizona
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As a good "fluffy" fix for Ratlings since I hate their models, was using a cadian sniper. They are just emaciated soldiers that have been out in the field for weeks forward of the lines, providing live intel. That gives reason for their lower stats, but good ability to shoot and hide. But that was also back when I could buy the metal cadian snipers.
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"You are judged in life, not by the evil you destroy, but by the light you bring to the darkness" - Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 11:43:39
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Flashy Flashgitz
USA
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I'd say special weapons are the tools of the trade for Vets, but for regular Guardsmen, that's not the case. They lack the skill and number of shots to really make a lot out of them-it's more about the psychological factor than anything. A melta, plasma and flamer all have such effects: vehicles don't ever want to get close to a melta threat; 2+ armor will try to run from massed plasma; and assaulting a unit packing multiple flamers is not an easy decision to take, especially if your armor isn't that good. Snipers are those "ignorable" weapons that may do some damage from time to time, but do nothing to actually make life harder for your opponent, unless he plays Nidzilla and has forgotten his chitin plates at home. Even then, you play IG, for God's sake-you have more than enough big guns to deal with big bugs. Therefore, if you believe flamers, meltas etc. are a waste of points, just refrain from getting any special weapons on the squad and buff the rest of your list, as other members have expressed. Snipers just don't cut it.
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"Get'em boyz! Dakka dakka dakka! WAAAGH! DA ORKS! WAAAGH!" -Rotgob
Is Kharn a Commissar that kills enemies or are Commissars Kharn wannabe's who don't have the balls to kill enemies? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 13:23:05
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Leader of the Sept
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I have a couple of infantry squads to act as garrison on my own objectives. I run them with sniper rifles, because I like the idea of sniper rifles. I don't think they have ever actually done anything  I persevere becasue I like the models
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 17:04:02
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
Greater Boston Area, USA
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Cheesedoodler wrote:If the guys you play with love assaulting you, get yourself a Straken and a priest. You'll get furious charge and counter attack, and you'll be able to re-roll your first round of combat. Ogryn are just not worth it.
I'm gonna do this ^. I don't see winning CC with guardsmen ever - not with the lethal CC units that I'm getting hit with. You can argue, but if I build my list specifically to win in CC, I'd be so weak in other areas where the 'Guard usually dominate. So the compromise is creating a tough obstacle that will leave my opponent limping after finally finishing off the small horde that I keep at the back. Then I can finish them off in shooting. Just to be clear - I don't have trouble with a few marines or other light CC units, it's much tougher multi-wound models with very high CC stats.
I've just read up on Straken, and he seems like a really fair deal at 90pts, ESPECIALLY if I put in some PFists, or a priest. I could go nuts and put in all kinds of CC buffs, but there is a point of diminishing returns I think. I'm not trying to dominate in CC, I'm just trying squeeze a few more drops of effectiveness out of my platoon. The Russ tanks and veterans in my army are performing really well up front, I don't want to water them down, so I need some cheap but effective upgrades to the platoon.
I think BS3 snipers are out. You got me there. To really boost the radical killing power of snipers, they have to be BS4 and more of them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 17:35:08
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Flashy Flashgitz
USA
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Straken is a monster, just not a very survivable one. He can't be attached to a blob, Priests are quite expensive, and his statline+small squad usually gets him killed pretty quickly. Don't even think about going hand to hand with scary combat units. I guess you're referring to GK Paladins with the "multi wound, huge CC stats"-I assure you Straken won't be able to take them. If they're getting to your lines in strength, you're doing something wrong-consider why that happens, and try to prevent it rather than making a CC unit.
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"Get'em boyz! Dakka dakka dakka! WAAAGH! DA ORKS! WAAAGH!" -Rotgob
Is Kharn a Commissar that kills enemies or are Commissars Kharn wannabe's who don't have the balls to kill enemies? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 19:38:22
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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The other problem with Straken is that you have to pay points for a second character because otherwise he will get called out in Challenges and obliterated. The only way to avoid this is have him charge a unit already in CC that has a challenge still going with a single character... and that really narrows things down.
As for Power Fists...where are you getting them? Only Vets, CCS Commanders, and Lord Commissars get them as an option. After that it is a few named characters... Kell, Yarrick, and Straken sorta counts as one. Dunno what book your reading, but Straken is 95pts in mine. That is what kinda scares me about you... you say you can't win CC with Guardsmen... but your willing to turn to a 5 man squad of Guard and a single Character that is minimum costing you 145pts (not counting the Priest)? Your not willing to blob up 20 guys and blow 75pts on a Commissar, 2x Melta bombs, and 3 power weapons (fine, go Axes for AP 2 +1 Str and Init 1) but your willing to blow those points for Straken?
This is the problem I am encountering...
You want to know what special weapon to take for a PIS.
You do not blob your PIS, you scatter them across your backfield.
You tell us melta and plasma are not a option because you only get a single shot off with them and then your in CC.
It is really coming down not as a special weapon choice, but how to survive CC or weaken the enemy enough that you can shoot them after they have destroyed the unit they were in CC with. It feels more to me that you do not fully understand close combat in 6th Ed and that Guard can do CC. I don't know if your taking advantage of the fact you can Rapid Fire in Overwatch and that you probably have a round of fire before they get into CC with you. I do not know if your making full use of Orders to issue FRF,SRF and the like to make those shots /really/ count. I am not sure if your doing Challenges correctly and how powerful IG are in that area because they have more characters than any other list.
I have to seriously question your tactics with your infantry... you can not ignore them and then wonder why your getting crushed. Right now I have to even wonder if you put a heavy weapon in those PIS. Blob them, kit them out right, issue them Orders and they might be a bigger part of your list for the same amount of points. Your losing bodies, but your making them better and more survivable. Heck, you might be surprised by how well they work.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/22 04:57:13
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 19:42:23
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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BlkTom wrote: Heck, do you even know that if you do Dual Plasma pistols and get into CC, you use the plasma pistol stats as CC stats ( Ap 2, Str 7)? Er...what? Either you're grossly misinformed, or I've been missing out on something incredible.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/20 19:42:46
Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
FAQs |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 19:51:27
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Battleship Captain
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Griddlelol wrote: BlkTom wrote: Heck, do you even know that if you do Dual Plasma pistols and get into CC, you use the plasma pistol stats as CC stats ( Ap 2, Str 7)?
Er...what?
Either you're grossly misinformed, or I've been missing out on something incredible.
There's no way that's true.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/20 20:04:29
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
Greater Boston Area, USA
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Hedkrakka wrote:Straken is a monster, just not a very survivable one. He can't be attached to a blob, Priests are quite expensive, and his statline+small squad usually gets him killed pretty quickly. Don't even think about going hand to hand with scary combat units. I guess you're referring to GK Paladins with the "multi wound, huge CC stats"-I assure you Straken won't be able to take them. If they're getting to your lines in strength, you're doing something wrong-consider why that happens, and try to prevent it rather than making a CC unit.
I don't expect that any IG unit will be able to take on Paladins successfully. Nor will they be able to take on Nob Bikers, Chaos Spawn, Death Company, Dreadnoughts, Dreadknights, Mega Nobz, DE Beast hordes, Harley Stars, Wracks, Thunderwolf Cavalry, etc.
I have 1 or 2 turns of shooting, and their delivery is flying, drop pod, or driving around LOS cover. I don't think I'll be able to wipe them off the table in such a short amount of time. For a long time now, I've simply been allowing them in, while the rest of my army rolls up a flank and hits whatever pathetic little squads they left on their home objectives. Trying to actually stop an all out blitz by killing them is foolish - the more points I put in my lines, the more points get eaten up in assault. I can't win on my side with everything plus the kitchen sink coming across.
It's basically been working - my opponent's special super uber expensive mega awesome kill squads get stuck for 5 turns killing the platoon, while I'm fighting 150 points worth of garbage units in their deployment zone. When the dust settles, they have to limp back across and take on the better half of my army.
I just want to make the tar bit a bit more tarry. I see what you're saying about Straken as an attacker, not a defender, but if I can get a bit more power on defense, I'll take it. Automatically Appended Next Post: BlkTom wrote:
As for Power Fists...where are you getting them?
That is what kinda scares me about you... you say you can't win CC with Guardsmen... but your willing to turn to a 5 man squad of Guard and a single Character that is minimum costing you 145pts (not counting the Priest)? Your not willing to blob up 20 guys and blow 75pts on a Commissar, 2x Melta bombs, and 3 power weapons (fine, go Axes for AP 2 +1 Str and Init 1) but your willing to blow those points for Straken?
This is the problem I am encountering...
You want to know what special weapon to take for a PIS.
You do not blob your PIS, you scatter them across your backfield.
You tell us melta and plasma are not a option because you only get a single shot off with them and then your in CC.
It is really coming down not as a special weapon choice, but how to survive CC or weaken the enemy enough that you can shoot them after they have destroyed the unit they were in CC with. It feels more to me that you do not fully understand close combat in 6th Ed and that Guard can do CC. I don't know if your taking advantage of the fact you can Rapid Fire in Overwatch and that you probably have a round of fire before they get into CC with you. I do not know if your making full use of Orders to issue FRF,SRF and the like to make those shots /really/ count. I am not sure if your doing Challenges correctly and how powerful IG are in that area because they have more characters than any other list. Heck, do you even know that if you do Dual Plasma pistols and get into CC, you use the plasma pistol stats as CC stats ( Ap 2, Str 7)?
I have to seriously question your tactics with your infantry... you can not ignore them and then wonder why your getting crushed. Right now I have to even wonder if you put a heavy weapon in those PIS. Blob them, kit them out right, issue them Orders and they might be a bigger part of your list for the same amount of points. Your losing bodies, but your making them better and more survivable. Heck, you might be surprised by how well they work.
You're right about the PFists - I forgot that sergeants can't take them.
The rest ... well, I haven't played a game since I started this thread, so I can hardly be blamed for refusing to take anyone's advice. Everything you've said sounds great, I'm sure everyone here has played many more years of 40k than myself.
I'm trying to base my decisions on personal experience and the guidance of players like yourself. I've taken a lot of advice from people on Dakka.
A power blob? Yeah, I've run them in past and they performed really well. I'd certainly be willing to give it another try, but even with a commissar in the ranks, losing 20 men to sweeping advances is rough. Still, it's a completely valid point you're making, I'll consider taking one.
Sorry I scare you, lol. Nobody is forcing your hand here.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/20 20:26:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 04:19:51
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Griddlelol wrote: BlkTom wrote: Heck, do you even know that if you do Dual Plasma pistols and get into CC, you use the plasma pistol stats as CC stats ( Ap 2, Str 7)?
Er...what?
Either you're grossly misinformed, or I've been missing out on something incredible.
Mis-read the rule on page 51, BRB (Pistols as Close Combat Weapons). They do use the stats of the wielder and are treated as CCWs losing the Str, AP, and special rules. I was looking for them because I run Creed a lot and all he has is dual Hot-shot laspistols. I guess the few times he got into combat, me using the AP 3, Str 3 wasn't a overpowering advantage. My apologies.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 04:23:18
Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 05:10:28
Subject: Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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CaptObvious wrote:I only get 1 special weapon at BS3, and felt like I'd be throwing away 10-15 points.
... but you're bringing 8 PISs. And some PCSs. And a CCS or two. You're not talking about a single BS3 meltagun, you're talking about a strategic melta hedge wherein you deny key areas of the board to your opponent's vehicles.
CaptObvious wrote:One thing is very clear - they're doing more than flamers, for the same cost.
Well that's certainly true. Any weapon you actually get to fire is going to be better than any weapon you never do.
That said, just because a sniper rifle is better than a flamer doesn't mean that the sniper rifle is the best special weapon, it just means that its better than the worst one.
Cheesedoodler wrote:If the guys you play with love assaulting you, get yourself a Straken and a priest. You'll get furious charge and counter attack, and you'll be able to re-roll your first round of combat.
And you're paying 200 points for something that only works if your opponent assaults it (or something very near it), and doesn't just wipe out the CCS with shooting first. Odds are, like the flamers, you're going to go game after game of spending points on it, but not actually using it.
Speed bumps are a better way to handle assault in 6th ed anyways, now.
CaptObvious wrote:I don't expect that any IG unit will be able to take on Paladins successfully. Nor will they be able to take on Nob Bikers, Chaos Spawn, Death Company, Dreadnoughts, Dreadknights, Mega Nobz, DE Beast hordes, Harley Stars, Wracks, Thunderwolf Cavalry, etc.
There are several ways to handle this.
Ironically, a bunch of meltagun armed PISs are one of your best weapons for this. Take two PISs armed with a meltagun and a lascannon, and assume that they both pass a FRF order. Against paladins, you're looking at a bit under two killed instantly by the anti-tank weapons, and then you cause another wound with the weight of fire. That's half a paladin squad downed by just TWO 70 point infantry squads. If you're running a foot list proper, you likely have many more where those came from.
Everything you mentioned is seriously threatened by a combination of high-quality weapons and weight of fire. Massed ranks of infantry platoons give you both.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 06:39:31
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I tried snipers when I first began 40k about 2 years ago but after being on this site ive given them up. Having that plasma or melta gun really helps at times do some real damage to the opponent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:51:21
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Griddlelol wrote: BlkTom wrote: Heck, do you even know that if you do Dual Plasma pistols and get into CC, you use the plasma pistol stats as CC stats ( Ap 2, Str 7)?
Er...what?
Either you're grossly misinformed, or I've been missing out on something incredible.
This could not be more wrong. Pistols can be used in assault, yes, but they count as extra close combat weapons. Having two pistols will give you +1 attack (on your model's statline) in CC. No, you CANNOT FIRE THEM in the assault phase.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/22 04:56:03
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard : Snipers in the PIS?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Cheesedoodler wrote: Griddlelol wrote: BlkTom wrote: Heck, do you even know that if you do Dual Plasma pistols and get into CC, you use the plasma pistol stats as CC stats ( Ap 2, Str 7)?
Er...what?
Either you're grossly misinformed, or I've been missing out on something incredible.
This could not be more wrong. Pistols can be used in assault, yes, but they count as extra close combat weapons. Having two pistols will give you +1 attack (on your model's statline) in CC. No, you CANNOT FIRE THEM in the assault phase.
Yeah... you didn't bother to read a few more posts down before you posted...
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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