Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The fluff always talks about how chainswords shred through flesh and light armor alike... I wish chainsword would have been made AP6, maybe even AP5... Would give units like assault marines a tiny bit more usefull, specially against hordes.

Anyway, just a thought.

AP5 seems a bit high for something that is generally free/default for most units that can take them. AP6 possibly but tbh, would it affect their killing power that much? Unless you have friends that are very good at rolling sixes!

I think I'd prefer to have them as +1S AP- weapons. So a tiny boost over default close combat weapons (knives etc)

Rending?

Rending would mean an assault marine could penetrate a vehicle with a chainsaw, doesn't seem right. It would also make their chance to kill armoured troops far too high.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Rending?

very powerful, and thus expensive.

5+ and 6+ saves almost always fail anyway. Don't take their one hope.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
The fluff always talks about how chainswords shred through flesh and light armor alike... I wish chainsword would have been made AP6, maybe even AP5... Would give units like assault marines a tiny bit more usefull, specially against hordes.

Anyway, just a thought.

for +1 point per model perhaps.
AP4 chainaxes are +2 ppm.

Also a lot of weapons have awesome fluff, but do not have rules to match. Eldar have monomolecular edge weapons that are supposed to cut through cermite plates with the slightest application of force. Shall we give all eldar AP3 weapons? Or rending?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
5+ and 6+ saves almost always fail anyway. Don't take their one hope.

5+ saves work 33% of them time. adding AP5 would make the attacks 50% more effective. Assault Marrines are already effective against things with 5+ saves, so making them more effective might make them OP. They would still suck against other marines, so I dont see raising the points being being a good idea.

Whatever improvements are made, they would have to cost more points. I threw out rending as an idea to make them them basically as they are now but give them a 1/6 chance to be more effective and fluffy (description sounds alot like rending weapons). Thus overall not a big change, excpet now they have a slightly better chance to kill armored troops. They're only strength 4, so their effectiveness against vehicles is limited.

But I honestly think they are fine as they are now, a basic close combat weapon. The last thing the game needs is more special rules IMO.

Any roll to hit of a 6 causes an automatic wound?

 Formosa wrote:
Any roll to hit of a 6 causes an automatic wound?

Str4 and that rule would yeild:
33% more damage against T4,
66% more damage against T5
166% more damage against T6 or 7
infinitly more damage against T8+

probably something like +4-5 points for that.

how about Shred?

That makes sense fluff-wise

They already do cut through light armour easily, two thirds of the time it doesn't help against a chainsword.

I'd be alright with shred. Kinda makes sense actually.

hmm initial hit slicing into the opponent and then revving the chainsaw, i could see shred making sense, perhaps only against opponents that have T equal to their Str (or lower) because if the sword doesn't penetrate the hide of a MC i don't think revving the sword would help much, it'd be like rubbing yourself with sandpaper, it's annoying but doesn't do anything, might take off some hairs

 greyknight12 wrote:
Whatever improvements are made, they would have to cost more points. I threw out rending as an idea to make them them basically as they are now but give them a 1/6 chance to be more effective and fluffy (description sounds alot like rending weapons). Thus overall not a big change, excpet now they have a slightly better chance to kill armored troops. They're only strength 4, so their effectiveness against vehicles is limited.

But I honestly think they are fine as they are now, a basic close combat weapon. The last thing the game needs is more special rules IMO.

Agreed with this guy. I hate special rules, a game shouldn't turn into "Which army has more exceptions to rules than the other"

I always hoped that Chainswords would at least have Rending, but that never happened and instead we get a glorified CCW.

 IHateNids wrote:
how about Shred?

That makes sense fluff-wise

I am a firm believer that if chainswords got anything, that thing should be shred.

 Exergy wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Any roll to hit of a 6 causes an automatic wound?

Str4 and that rule would yeild:
33% more damage against T4,
66% more damage against T5
166% more damage against T6 or 7
infinitly more damage against T8+

probably something like +4-5 points for that.

Looks about right, then we add gw logic, then only allow marines to use "astartes chainswords" and it's a free option... You know it's true lol

 Formosa wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Any roll to hit of a 6 causes an automatic wound?

Str4 and that rule would yeild:
33% more damage against T4,
66% more damage against T5
166% more damage against T6 or 7
infinitly more damage against T8+

probably something like +4-5 points for that.

Looks about right, then we add gw logic, then only allow marines to use "astartes chainswords" and it's a free option... You know it's true lol

HERESY! we space marines wish to have the best weapons is that too much to ask? all we want is to be broke, OP and a cash cow. You have your eviscerators, which rip flesh asunder. Your scorpion chainblades that are powerful as all getup. We humble servants of the emperor only wish to have a weapon better than any other race that we get for free and can use in spammable quantities as to be as effective and broken as possible.

In a realistic note, I could dig shred. Fluffwise they can rip through flak armor like a bolter round through Jell-O, but its not like those IG meatbags will save against the attack either way

Also a lot of weapons have awesome fluff, but do not have rules to match. Eldar have monomolecular edge weapons that are supposed to cut through cermite plates with the slightest application of force. Shall we give all eldar AP3 weapons? Or rending?

I am perfectly on board with that idea, give witchblades the force weapon status the fluff says they are!

But on a serious note, flakk armor is not going to stop a chainsaw which is what we are talking about here just on a sword handle. If that is what the guard are wearing and the guard get a 5+ then it stands to reason AP5 is not out of the question for a chainsword. I don't think a strength modifier is necessarily accurate though my Striking Scorpions do benefit from one, so there is precedent for that as well. I do feel that a chainsword as a named CCW should have something special for it. Maybe a shift from the "may trade in for bolt pistol and chain sword" to "may trade in for bolt pistol and close combat weapon. May trade in CCW for chainsword for an additional 2 points"

Never thought about shred... that seems perfect for a Chainsword.

Just bump the points by... 4/5 points (I'm thinking it'd make it about as much better as Master-Crafted)

4-5 points per attack. Another 2 points for rage or similar rules. And so on.

Shred is a really powerful rule when applied to models that are currently the basis for balance.

How about shred but like poisen, it only works if your str is higher or the same as their toughtness. Would that be too good?

 phoenix darkus wrote:
The fluff always talks about how chainswords shred through flesh and light armor alike... I wish chainsword would have been made AP6, maybe even AP5... Would give units like assault marines a tiny bit more usefull, specially against hordes.

Anyway, just a thought.

Ok but models with 6+ armor save gain +3 initiative against models equipted with chainswords.

Reading 2nd edition wargear and they used to be S4, -1 to save modifier. Save modifiers were kind of cool But I think AP6 would be reasonable, if there was a point cost involved though.

What I can't get through my head, not just from playing second edition.. is how a model with a chainsword is equal in combat to a model with a knife?

Hello? Chainsword beats knife? lmao

There needs to be some distinction.

Hmm, i think i am going to proxy this and get back to you guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
chainswords with shred i mean.

And how many people are cool with paying lots of extra points for fancy CCW's? I've got chainswords on tons of models, they really don't need special rules. As is, they're silly weapons, any realistic attempt to use them against anything armored would likely see the chain snap and fly at very high speed into the user's face.

+1S makes most basic marines wound T3 models on 2's and able to penetrate tanks with basic melee attacks (not to mention how stupidly easy tanks are to kill already in 6E, especially in CC...). Rending suddenly makes them significantly more capable against MC's and heavy infantry when that's clearly not their role, and Shred is roughly equivalent to increasing the number of attacks they get to make by 50%

How much do people want to pay for these abilities on what is common gear on many basic troopers?