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Inspired by JY2's Battle Reports, I will be bringing you some battle reports on my mate's lovingly constructed Cities of Death board!

Expect almost-painted armies, some bizarre proxies and amazing scenery!

To kick things off is my undefeated 1850 Ravenwing List versus a very nasty Tzeentchian Flying Circus. For this game, me and my friend will be trading armies
to see how we fare with completely unfamiliar armies.

Ravenwing 1850:

Sammael
Librarian, Lvl 2, Force Stave, Bike
Techmarine, Bike

Ravenwing Command Squad x3, Banner

Ravenwing Attack Squad, Melta x3
Attack Bike, MM, x3
Ravenwing Attack Squad
Darkshroud

Contemptor Mortis, Cyclone, Kheres, x2

Tzeentch Flying Circus with CSM allies: 1850

Fateweaver
Lord of Change, Grimoire, Lvl 2

Plaguebearer, 10, x2

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, Flight, Portaglyph, Lvl 2
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, Flight, Lvl 2

CSM Allies
Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, Flight, Lvl 3, Black Mace, Power Armour

Cultists, 10

Helldrake

What are your predictions? Will the absurd 5 FMC+ Helldrake roll the boys in black, or can they castle up and pull off a victory?

Playing against one's own list is hard... more emotionally really. I'd say the Flying Circus list may have the advantage with Vector strikes and the Baleflamer ignoring cover against High Points bike squads.

It may even sacrifice a Daemon Prince to assault the Darkshroud so the Dark Angels player should bubble wrap it with the other bikes since I doubt the Vector Strikes can damage it properly... right? What's the armor on that thing anyways?

Flickering Fire is risky but four of them aimed at the same squad is likely going to kill them without the chance of Feel No Pain. Especially at BS of 5 and above.

Well you are quite familiar with the weaknesses of your own list, so killing it will be quite easy!
The flying circus is quite harsh on any MEQ army, especially small elite Ravenwing. But Don't underestimate the amount of firepower the two Contemptors put out!
They can easily slaughter a DP a turn if they combine their fire, and if they kill the lynchpin DPs (Grimoire Holder, Fateweaver) the list will go down quite hard.

The Darkshroud is AV 10 with a 2+ cover and 2hp, it dies to a stiff breeze. It isn't hugely influential on the game however, I probably won't be attacking it until the banner squad is dead.

Lots of things can go wrong with FF on Bikers, I'm tempted to give them a Apothecary just for the pure lulz. I never run apothecaries normally since I cant' make a FNP to save my life. There are, however, stronger psychic powers; shriek, for example, is quite strong against RW.

I like both those lists, but I really like that Daemons list. A bit fragile w/ 2 of those DPs not having armor and there not being that many Greater Rewards going about, but it's trading defense for pure offense. Should be a lot of fun!

One question: Why no Exalted Reward? The Portalglyph would really help that list with objective missions and Grimoire is always awesome, too.

Edit: I predict a close win for the Daemons after a hard fought game.

zamnath wrote:
I like both those lists, but I really like that Daemons list. A bit fragile w/ 2 of those DPs not having armor and there not being that many Greater Rewards going about, but it's trading defense for pure offense. Should be a lot of fun!

One question: Why no Exalted Reward? The Portalglyph would really help that list with objective missions and Grimoire is always awesome, too.

Edit: I predict a close win for the Daemons after a hard fought game.

Err the rewards I took were Exalted rewards Let me edit.

Armour doesn't really help DPs and its quite expensive, their primary defence should be flying.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

zamnath wrote:
I like both those lists, but I really like that Daemons list. A bit fragile w/ 2 of those DPs not having armor and there not being that many Greater Rewards going about, but it's trading defense for pure offense. Should be a lot of fun!

One question: Why no Exalted Reward? The Portalglyph would really help that list with objective missions and Grimoire is always awesome, too.

Edit: I predict a close win for the Daemons after a hard fought game.

Err the rewards I took were Exalted rewards Let me edit.

Armour doesn't really help DPs and its quite expensive, their primary defence should be flying.

Hmm. I've always found the 3+ to be useful. I tend to only run the allied Black Mace prince, though, and it's great for keeping him alive in Close Combat. If you're using most of your princes as dedicated firing platforms for psychic powers and the like I can see why you'd find armor to be a waste.

1

That table looks great!

The Antagonists:

An Unkindness of Ravens

Warlord:
Asmodeus, Holder of the Key (Machinator-Pattern Jetbike with the open book)
Librarian, Level Two, Bike, Force Stave
Psychic powers: Invisibility (Gives Stealth and Shrouded, Reduces enemy to WS1 in combat), Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover)
Warlord Trait: -1 to Enemy Reserve Rolls

True to form, my Librarian rolls invisibility again... this is something like 10+ games in a row when he's rolled it!

Master of the Ravenwing, Seraphiel on Nyx (Sammael)

Brother-Techmarine Hephasteus (Machinator-Pattern Jetbike with the Twin Wings)
Techmarine, Bike

Seraphim Squadron (Machinator-Pattern Jetbikes, banner on the Angels with Halo)
Ravenwing Command Squad, Banner of Devastation

Erinyes Squadron (Bikers with raised swords)
Ravenwing Command Squad

Fury Squadron (Bikers with Lances)
Ravenwing Command Squad

Crow Squadron (Ravenwing Bikers)
Skull Squadron
Valklyrie Squadron
Melior Squadron
RAS, Meltagun

3 Attack Bikes, Multi Melta (Scimitar-Pattern Jetbikes)

The Tower of Absolution
Darkshroud, Heavy Bolter

Lyx Tetrax, The Black Wind (Painted Contemptor)
Mortis Contemptor, Kheres, Cyclone Missile Launcher

Astraphaeus, Founder of Murder (Unpainted Contemptor)
Mortis Contemptor, Kheres Cyclone Missile Launcher

Broken links.

I feel sorry for those big gribblies! Lots of bad luck for the daemons this game. Looks like it was a fun game, though. Good batrep.

As to your points on Daemons:

4. Don't forget Bolt of Change. It is significantly better than Flickering fire nine times out of 10. The AP2 is great against MEQs and better. It probably wouldn't have worked very well against the Bikers, though, since they're maneuverable so can hug cover and spread out a great deal.

5. I'd have to see how you played Fateweaver to really get an idea why he underwhelmed you. It sounded like most of the attacks you were sending out from him got denied, which is probably a large part of it. A mobile lvl 4 psyker who can cast two witchfires a turn is nasty. I think you would have been better off with Psychic Shriek than invisibility. I've run against several Dark Angels lists with bikes in them (no full biker lists yet, though, keep hoping to get a game in against them eventually) and found that Flickering Fire combined with Psychic Shriek mulches bikers pretty effectively. 3d6 - leadership wounds on invulns/FnP is pretty great. I've run Fateweaver in every game I've played so far and my opponents almost invariably comment on how powerful he is.

6. Yes. Yes, I can imagine that it does.

Switched from Flickr to Photobucket, should be working now!

Links are usually broken if the pictures have been moved where they are being hosted. For example, if you move the pics from 1 folder to another, you will have to relink it to the "new" location where the pictures are stored/organized.

BTW, love the terrain.

Zamnath already said a lot of what I was thinking, but both bolt of change and infernal gateway are good. The bolt of change is probably the best, but if your opponent happens to leave himself exposed by grouping his guys too close, a str5+ ap 1 blast will really clean things up. I find people forget that I have it as an option. Keep in mind it scatters at -6 because of fateweaver's high BS.

Remember fateweaver can reroll ANYTHING. He can do it once per turn, this means once on your turn, and once on their turn. In their turn, one of the best ways to use this is to reroll failed grounding tests. But I think it is especially powerful when used to reroll failed terminator saves from allied CSM as well. Other good choices are deny the witch rolls and so forth.

I think the grimoire is best on a herald in a large block of horrors. If stuff hits the fan and you're worried they will wipe out the grimoire squad, you can use it on the unit the herald is in. This gives you very tough tarpit that will take your opponent quite a while to get through.

In my opinion, the black mace isn't worth it either. If you're taking a daemon price HQ from the space marine codex anyway, then sure, but the benefits to keeping the daemon prince in the daemon codex are significant as well. The greater rewards are all exceptional, the lesser reward for tzeentch is like a weak version of the black mace, and daemon princes in the daemon codex aren't obligated to spend half their warp charges on codex powers, so you can load up on biomancy powers if you like.

Another point about keeping the grimoire on a herald instead of a daemon prince or lord of change, is there is a large opportunity cost to putting it on a MC. As I said before, the lesser power and the greater powers are all fantastic. You should definitely load up your lord of change if not everything else.

The portaglyph spawns two plaguebearers. At the end of movement however, the Contemptors Interceptor the Helldrake... the first puts a glance on it. The second however, puts five penetrating hits on it... and the Helldrake goes down! The burning wreck comes crashing down but harms no one. Uh-oh... the plan has gone to the dogs!

Sadly Contemptators cant intercept as they only gain skyfire interceptor for that turn they do no move, it just means they can choose to skyfire or normal fire, sad but true.

Sounds like a good game, lots of terrain as well on the board

zamnath wrote:
Broken links.

I feel sorry for those big gribblies! Lots of bad luck for the daemons this game. Looks like it was a fun game, though. Good batrep.

As to your points on Daemons:

4. Don't forget Bolt of Change. It is significantly better than Flickering fire nine times out of 10. The AP2 is great against MEQs and better. It probably wouldn't have worked very well against the Bikers, though, since they're maneuverable so can hug cover and spread out a great deal.

5. I'd have to see how you played Fateweaver to really get an idea why he underwhelmed you. It sounded like most of the attacks you were sending out from him got denied, which is probably a large part of it. A mobile lvl 4 psyker who can cast two witchfires a turn is nasty. I think you would have been better off with Psychic Shriek than invisibility. I've run against several Dark Angels lists with bikes in them (no full biker lists yet, though, keep hoping to get a game in against them eventually) and found that Flickering Fire combined with Psychic Shriek mulches bikers pretty effectively. 3d6 - leadership wounds on invulns/FnP is pretty great. I've run Fateweaver in every game I've played so far and my opponents almost invariably comment on how powerful he is.

6. Yes. Yes, I can imagine that it does.

I thought Flying Monstrous Creatures would be far more resilient to small arms fire, but no. The Contemptors/Salvo really did a number on them... T5 with a 5++ really isn't that survivable as AV12 at the end of the day.

I did roll Bolt of Change but seeing as how all the turns I could have used it it would have been A. Denied B. Up against a 2+ cover save I doubt it would be that effective. You bring down bikes through volume of fire. I should have run Shriek, I guess, but it's got a 12" range and Ravenwing have 24"... At the end of the day, Tzeentch shooting is pretty weak for their points cost, and Vector Striking limits you to one weapon in the shooting phase. 5 FMCs completely lack any ranged-anti armor at all.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:

The portaglyph spawns two plaguebearers. At the end of movement however, the Contemptors Interceptor the Helldrake... the first puts a glance on it. The second however, puts five penetrating hits on it... and the Helldrake goes down! The burning wreck comes crashing down but harms no one. Uh-oh... the plan has gone to the dogs!

Sadly Contemptators cant intercept as they only gain skyfire interceptor for that turn they do no move, it just means they can choose to skyfire or normal fire, sad but true.

Sounds like a good game, lots of terrain as well on the board

6th Ed FW FAQ: "Fleet (When stationary gains the Skyfire and Interceptor special rule)", so they do get Interceptor in the opponent's phase as well. It would just be silly not to have it otherwise.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

staticchange wrote:
Zamnath already said a lot of what I was thinking, but both bolt of change and infernal gateway are good. The bolt of change is probably the best, but if your opponent happens to leave himself exposed by grouping his guys too close, a str5+ ap 1 blast will really clean things up. I find people forget that I have it as an option. Keep in mind it scatters at -6 because of fateweaver's high BS.

Remember fateweaver can reroll ANYTHING. He can do it once per turn, this means once on your turn, and once on their turn. In their turn, one of the best ways to use this is to reroll failed grounding tests. But I think it is especially powerful when used to reroll failed terminator saves from allied CSM as well. Other good choices are deny the witch rolls and so forth.

I think the grimoire is best on a herald in a large block of horrors. If stuff hits the fan and you're worried they will wipe out the grimoire squad, you can use it on the unit the herald is in. This gives you very tough tarpit that will take your opponent quite a while to get through.

In my opinion, the black mace isn't worth it either. If you're taking a daemon price HQ from the space marine codex anyway, then sure, but the benefits to keeping the daemon prince in the daemon codex are significant as well. The greater rewards are all exceptional, the lesser reward for tzeentch is like a weak version of the black mace, and daemon princes in the daemon codex aren't obligated to spend half their warp charges on codex powers, so you can load up on biomancy powers if you like.

Another point about keeping the grimoire on a herald instead of a daemon prince or lord of change, is there is a large opportunity cost to putting it on a MC. As I said before, the lesser power and the greater powers are all fantastic. You should definitely load up your lord of change if not everything else.

The debate is still on if you can re-roll your opponent's dice. In any case, I used the re-roll quite early on in the crucial turns (to get the Helldrake in, to save the LoC) but the dice were against me in this one! For 300 points he's actually really squishy, T5 and 5 wounds and a 4++ won't last extremely long against a strong shooting list, and he's quite weak in assault.

DPs in the Daemon codex must spend a single point in the discipline of their God, so you can only roll two on Biomancy, which isn't as good as CSM DPs. In fact the CSM DP out performed all the other Tzeentch DPs. The Grimoire's 24" range sort of limits its use in conjunction with FMC; suffice to say there is no Daemon/Herald unit that can survive a turn of Ravenwing shooting.

Anyway, I'm not a Daemon player and never will be, I just wanted to see what 5 FMC+ Helldrake would do to my list.. and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised!

The full rules are in IA aeronautica mate, and it is interceptor and skyfire for that turn.

If it only had skyfire for that turn it would mean they would have to snap shoot at ground targets so it does make sense.

DPs in the Daemon codex must spend a single point in the discipline of their God, so you can only roll two on Biomancy, which isn't as good as CSM DPs. In fact the CSM DP out performed all the other Tzeentch DPs. The Grimoire's 24" range sort of limits its use in conjunction with FMC; suffice to say there is no Daemon/Herald unit that can survive a turn of Ravenwing shooting.

Also I think you have this the wrong way round, codex daemon DP's can also take powers from their gods, they do not have to, I think it is the CSM DP's that HAVE to take a power from their gods powers so you can roll three on biomancy, I prefer the grimoure on the herald with a large blob of horrors, helps protect him and the grimoure a lot more then a DP which IMO is going to die.

Also I played against Tony Chew, he qualifed for the UK GT and was placed mid table after two bad games cost him, he went 2 wins 2 draws 2 losses with a RW wing, he is a very good player able to use any army. I raped him with my daemon list and fatewaever took a stupid amount of shots and surivived, I didnt lose a single DP in that game so if you play against RW properly you can survive.


I would say no to re rolling a dice you did not roll, but the re roll is very useful for things like grounding tests, armour saves etc it is a case of knowing when to use it.

Personally I have a full FOC worth of bikes, over 60 of them and I know how to play a RW list, personnaly I think they are too weak for what they are they are not a competitive top level tourny army

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/512376.page#5371898

Pretty sure it's just a mistaken reading of the 'turn', because RAI it's clearly meant to be able to intercept in the opponent's turn. It's an AA Dreadnought.
And the FAQ makes this intention clear.

In any case, if you argue RAW, it certainly remains stationary in the opponents' turn, since it can't move, and ergo it has Skyfire and Interceptor. Either way, it can intercept, and to argue otherwise is silly.

Whoops got the two mixed up, it's CSM DPs who have to roll on power.

Was he running Contemptor Mortises or any Skyfire at all? Because some mono-RW lists go all bikes, which struggles against anti-air and monstrous creatures.

So you haven't managed to sell them yet then

Ravenwing won at TSHFT, but it's still a comparatively rare-army to see, ergo fewer Tourney wins.

I've been thinking about Psychic Shriek against your bikers: all of the FMCs are fast enough to keep up with the bikes and all but the LoC have access to Telepathy. I wonder if it would have made a difference if you had grabbed as many instances of Psychic Shriek as possible. I'm not sure what other powers would have been handy against bikers, but the great thing about psychic Daemon Princes is the huge range of powers they can roll for. I think that, with the proper power choices, this would have been a much closer game.

Nice to see the pictures!

I'm curious: how are you getting the 2+ cover save? Is it wargear of some sort? If Dark Angels bikes have access to a 2+ cover save there's a player I know who hasn't been taking advantage of that fact and I'd like to let him know about it.

Jink 5+ Skilled Rider 4+ Turbo Boost 3+ Stealth from Darkshroud 2+

He made 3/4 Deny the Witch rolls on the Command Squad in the second turn, so no matter what I shot it wouldn't have mattered. 5+ DTW really hurts. If I had been rocking Mephiston like I plan to
it would have been a 4+ DTW...

I regularly use Psychic Shriek on my Librarian and it averages one-two wounds against LD 9-10. It's quite good against RW bikers but the big problem was he had far more firepower than I did.

Very cool report! You guys did make one mistake that seemed to affect the game rather heavily-- Vector Strike ignores cover!

 Kingsley wrote:
Very cool report! You guys did make one mistake that seemed to affect the game rather heavily-- Vector Strike ignores cover!

You do get cover saves, it is AP 3 however so no biker saves.

Also, we played it as a shooting attack for the purposes of casualty removal, which is wrong... but more exciting!

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Very cool report! You guys did make one mistake that seemed to affect the game rather heavily-- Vector Strike ignores cover!

You do get cover saves, it is AP 3 however so no biker saves.

Also, we played it as a shooting attack for the purposes of casualty removal, which is wrong... but more exciting!

It's actually been FAQ'd to ignore cover:

"Page 43 – Special Rules, Vector Strike.
Change the second paragraph to read “When Swooping, this
model may savage its prey. At the end of the Movement Phase,
nominate one unengaged enemy unit the model has moved
over that turn. This unit may even be an enemy Flyer. That unit
takes D3+1 hits, resolved at the model’s unmodified Strength
and AP3, using Random Allocation. Against vehicles, these hits
are resolved against the target’s side armour. No cover saves are
allowed against these hits.”"


I hadn't even considered the vector strikes. Those would have been quite nice.

I'll have to explain that cover bit to the Dark Angels player I know. He's sort of new and still trying to get his head around the game, so teaching him a few tricks he can do with his codex is bound to be appreciated. I didn't know that skilled rider gave +1 to jink. That's pretty awesome. Makes me want to revisit my Reaver Jetbike spam Dark Eldar list.

Yeah, misplaying Vector Strike and overall horrible rolling for the Demons and I'm not surprised at the outcome.

Whoops! Thee were only two-three vector strikes in the game though at Str 5, one of which killed the Ravenwing Warlord so it's not like they were completely useless.

FMC's movement range of 24" severely limits their vector strike options to turn 3 and beyond against the 24" AA bubble.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Yeah, misplaying Vector Strike and overall horrible rolling for the Demons and I'm not surprised at the outcome.

The amount of dice I was rolling, it sort of averaged out. Flying things die to Skyfire Contemptors very very quickly. The only real run of bad luck was on Fateweaver and the Plagues at the end.

The heldrake was first blood not the techmarine rite?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The black mace rocks!

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/512376.page#5371898

Pretty sure it's just a mistaken reading of the 'turn', because RAI it's clearly meant to be able to intercept in the opponent's turn. It's an AA Dreadnought.
And the FAQ makes this intention clear.

In any case, if you argue RAW, it certainly remains stationary in the opponents' turn, since it can't move, and ergo it has Skyfire and Interceptor. Either way, it can intercept, and to argue otherwise is silly.

Whoops got the two mixed up, it's CSM DPs who have to roll on power.

Was he running Contemptor Mortises or any Skyfire at all? Because some mono-RW lists go all bikes, which struggles against anti-air and monstrous creatures.

So you haven't managed to sell them yet then

Ravenwing won at TSHFT, but it's still a comparatively rare-army to see, ergo fewer Tourney wins.

Only one interested buyer in poland means I'll keep em, wasnt exactly desperate to sell another few k in points doesnt make much difference to the amount of models I have!.

It is RAW using the aeronautica rules bud, and you may stand still in the opponents movement phase but unless otherwise stated you cant do things in your opponents turn,ie interceptor lets you and specfically calls out end of opponents movement phase, dooms ability says both turns etc. The reading of turn is player turn there is little to mistake! AA dread that can skyfire or ground fire in your turn, fluff wise and rules wise its right. Even going by one of your other arguements, the UK GT council ruled it as what I am saying it is, must be legal then eh? ha.

Techmarine was FB as he is a IC

MarkyMark wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/512376.page#5371898

Pretty sure it's just a mistaken reading of the 'turn', because RAI it's clearly meant to be able to intercept in the opponent's turn. It's an AA Dreadnought.
And the FAQ makes this intention clear.

In any case, if you argue RAW, it certainly remains stationary in the opponents' turn, since it can't move, and ergo it has Skyfire and Interceptor. Either way, it can intercept, and to argue otherwise is silly.

Whoops got the two mixed up, it's CSM DPs who have to roll on power.

Was he running Contemptor Mortises or any Skyfire at all? Because some mono-RW lists go all bikes, which struggles against anti-air and monstrous creatures.

So you haven't managed to sell them yet then

Ravenwing won at TSHFT, but it's still a comparatively rare-army to see, ergo fewer Tourney wins.

Only one interested buyer in poland means I'll keep em, wasnt exactly desperate to sell another few k in points doesnt make much difference to the amount of models I have!.

It is RAW using the aeronautica rules bud, and you may stand still in the opponents movement phase but unless otherwise stated you cant do things in your opponents turn,ie interceptor lets you and specfically calls out end of opponents movement phase, dooms ability says both turns etc. The reading of turn is player turn there is little to mistake! AA dread that can skyfire or ground fire in your turn, fluff wise and rules wise its right. Even going by one of your other arguements, the UK GT council ruled it as what I am saying it is, must be legal then eh? ha.

Techmarine was FB as he is a IC

Hmm actually he was right, the Helldrake was FB! Whoops.

Well I'm sure people would be willing to buy them if you gave it more exposure.

The actual text from IA:A is, 'If the Contemptor Mortis remains stationary in the movement phase, it gains the Skyfire and Interceptor rules for that turn.' Notice how it doesn't specify the player's movement phase, it says the movement phase.

Interceptor happens at the end of the movement phase, after everything that can move has moved. RAW it cannot move, so it's stationary, so it has skyfire and interceptor! You can't argue player turn since this rule applies for both turns.I think it's far more in the spirit of the rules if you don't move in your turn to get skyfire, than moving in your turn and getting skyfire anyway because you 'remained stationary' in the movement phase of your opponent. FW itself has replied saying it gains Skyfire/Interceptor during both turns so the 40UK GT ruling was wrong. In any case, they can make up whatever rules they want for their tournament, but RAW and RAI, it can skyfire/interceptor in both turns.

Too bad vector strikes were misplayed... Could have made a difference if it had been played correctly. Oh well.

Too bad about the loss. On the bright side, your RW is still undefeated.

Should've spawned horrors instead with the Portaglyph. You know how much extra shooting you would have had? Their shooting is nothing to be scoffed at, even if you do get a chance to deny it.

Probably, but all the horrors were already being use to proxy cultists

FF only has a 24" range though, considering where the portaglyph was placed they' have a hard time legging it to somewhere useful.

Maybe I should have deep-struck the Plagues nearby for a combined turn 2/3 assault? Hmm.