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So a Warbiker has the same statline except BS 5+ and a 4+ save with 2 wounds. With 2 attacks and 6 18" shots (at BS 5+), an Outrider should be worth more or less the same as two Warbikers. That's 46 points. Maybe add a few points for the better save and better leadership, that would put the Outrider at around 50 points, right?

Now watch GW put them at 40, and raise the cost of the Warbiker to 27 or so (because costs go up in 9th).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They mentioned that armies all have stuff the fall short on, so leaving it as "Jack of All Trades" was more the assumption people would understand how that saying ends.

Primaris armies seem like they're going to be getting a lot smaller to fit in the bikes and other melee units.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Indomitus box was a 1k-1.5k army for each side.

Stream said both sides were close to 50 PL.

Remains to be seen if fighting with the box contents actually gives you a reasonably balanced match-up

I'm not familar with how that generally translates to points. What is that, about 1k?

In 8th, 50 PL is 1000pts, but it looks like 9th will have 50PL = 500pts (based on the game sizes they previewed)

Edit: never mind, they aren’t changing it, I misread the preview

Of course, no one is talking about those bikes going to the Deathwatch....so all those great stats, plus guns that wound on 2+. I recall that the designers said the new models would work with Deathwatch, just not sure how they will fit in currently.

 Oguhmek wrote:
So a Warbiker has the same statline except BS 5+ and a 4+ save with 2 wounds. With 2 attacks and 6 18" shots (at BS 5+), an Outrider should be worth more or less the same as two Warbikers. That's 46 points. Maybe add a few points for the better save and better leadership, that would put the Outrider at around 50 points, right?

Now watch GW put them at 40, and raise the cost of the Warbiker to 27 or so (because costs go up in 9th).

Comparing Xenos with Marines is futile, lol


Hell, a single Primaris Marine with 2 Attacks in his profile jumps on a bike and throws out 6 attacks on the charge, while 2 Harlequins with 4 attacks each jump on a bike and end up with a total of ..... 3 attacks

 Oguhmek wrote:
So a Warbiker has the same statline except BS 5+ and a 4+ save with 2 wounds. With 2 attacks and 6 18" shots (at BS 5+), an Outrider should be worth more or less the same as two Warbikers. That's 46 points. Maybe add a few points for the better save and better leadership, that would put the Outrider at around 50 points, right?

Now watch GW put them at 40, and raise the cost of the Warbiker to 27 or so (because costs go up in 9th).

well seeing that a normal oldmarine biker already costs the same as an ork warbiker (balance blablablub )... a nob biker (+1w, +1s and +1attack) costs 10points more than a normal one... i am guessing 40 points for the primebike (+2w and +2a) including the 20% general increase in marinestuff...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They mentioned that armies all have stuff the fall short on, so leaving it as "Jack of All Trades" was more the assumption people would understand how that saying ends.

Primaris armies seem like they're going to be getting a lot smaller to fit in the bikes and other melee units.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Indomitus box was a 1k-1.5k army for each side.

Yeah I heard that primaris armies are getting so much smaller the game designers laughed at people and said their space marine army went down in size by one single squad.

the_scotsman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They mentioned that armies all have stuff the fall short on, so leaving it as "Jack of All Trades" was more the assumption people would understand how that saying ends.

Primaris armies seem like they're going to be getting a lot smaller to fit in the bikes and other melee units.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Indomitus box was a 1k-1.5k army for each side.

Yeah I heard that primaris armies are getting so much smaller the game designers laughed at people and said their space marine army went down in size by one single squad.

Losing a squad out of an existing army from points changes isn't the same as people needing to remove even more to fit in the new units.

Comparing the bike stats to an intercessor that is 20 points, there is no possible way they should be less than 45 points, and really you're looking at least 50. They shoot more than double as well, melee more than double as well, move more than twice as far, and have twice the wounds with a higher toughness value.

So they'll probably be 35 at launch.

If they don't get invuln save I'm gonna love to melta their faces though. So much.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Comparing the bike stats to an intercessor that is 20 points, there is no possible way they should be less than 45 points, and really you're looking at least 50. They shoot more than double as well, melee more than double as well, move more than twice as far, and have twice the wounds with a higher toughness value.

So they'll probably be 35 at launch.

I hope not.
Heck they are literally 2 khorneberzerkers tacked together with chainaxes and mobility and durability of 4 of them, that'd be hardly fair if they were just 35 pts.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Comparing the bike stats to an intercessor that is 20 points, there is no possible way they should be less than 45 points, and really you're looking at least 50. They shoot more than double as well, melee more than double as well, move more than twice as far, and have twice the wounds with a higher toughness value.

So they'll probably be 35 at launch.

I remember how broken intercessors were at the launch of 8th as well, let's hope these are the same eh?

As long as models are inmune to bikes because they are on top of a 1,1" barrel, meele bikers without fly will suck ass.

 Galas wrote:
As long as models are inmune to bikes because they are on top of a 1,1" barrel, meele bikers without fly will suck ass.

GW said they'd be fixing that in 9th, but haven't shown us how that works.

These should be 50pts. Those 16/17 cultists would be hard pushed to counter two of these.

I imagine my nu40k 8-10 pt Ork Boyz will not fare much better. (This is obviously speculation, before the flames start...) But will likely be somewhere close.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/faction-focus-space-marines/

Space Marine Faction Focus is up.

Stats for the new Neo-Volkite pistol and notes that the Thunderfire Cannon and Whirlwind Scorpius have received a boost by the new rules.

And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

Balanced as all things should be

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

Watch it become out of stock for 4 months again then go to legends when the next book comes around because the mold breaks.

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

Watch it become out of stock for 4 months again then go to legends when the next book comes around because the mold breaks.

Nah, it'll be updated to a Primaris Thunderfire cannon with double the barrels but triple the shots.

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

GW really is on top of their game recently. Everyone knows the biggest problem in 8th edition was underpowered artillery.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

Watch it become out of stock for 4 months again then go to legends when the next book comes around because the mold breaks.

Nah, it'll be updated to a Primaris Thunderfire cannon with double the barrels but triple the shots.

And a special rule that any 6s to hit knock back the unit you're shooting at 6".

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

Watch it become out of stock for 4 months again then go to legends when the next book comes around because the mold breaks.

Nah, it'll be updated to a Primaris Thunderfire cannon with double the barrels but triple the shots.

Wow; faction focus space marines #341! Yes! I've been waiting at least three days for the latest intel on all things Astartes. Get with the program GW.

Primaris Indestructifire cannons!! ZOMG!!??@! T8 with 25 wounds !!!

ClockworkZion wrote:And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Oh goody, more ancient Heresy tech for the numarines while the actual ancient warriors from the time of the Heresy are stuck with scavenged hand me downs.

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Great the underpowered Thunderfire Cannon is finally getting the buffs it deserves.

Watch it become out of stock for 4 months again then go to legends when the next book comes around because the mold breaks.

Then they'll just make a better primaris version in plastic.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

why does this picture looks like a cheap fake?

did they made up the rule 5 minutes ago because the already done one was to weak?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Lol that pistol outranges the Necron Gauss Reaper.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Oh goody, more ancient Heresy tech for the numarines while the actual ancient warriors from the time of the Heresy are stuck with scavenged hand me downs.

I will always say that Chaos needs more Dark Mechanicus madness. Like a Defiler/Rhino hybrid.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Lol that pistol outranges the Necron Gauss Reaper.

15" pistols
14" rapid fire weapons

WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Two EXTRA attacks on the charge? Doesn't that seem a bit ridiculous? Better hope the Sarge doesn't get access to melee weapons!

He has an Astartes Chainsword as well.

He has a chainsword in this box but it's quite possible the multipart kit offers a plethora of weapon options.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I will always say that Chaos needs more Dark Mechanicus madness. Like a Defiler/Rhino hybrid.

we just need rules, models are already there: