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Hi, I plan to buy the chaos portion of the Dark Vengeance set soon (to use Cultists for Necromunda) and I'm thinking of doing the remaining Chaos Marines as Fallen Angels.

Would this comply with fluff? From what I've read there are just a few Fallen scattered across the galaxy. And would they have all the Chaos mutations? I would think so due to the warpstorm they were sucked into during the final moments of Caliban.

All replies appreciated.

Create some fluff for the Lord from the DV set to be a Fallen. There are several instances of Fallen becoming leaders of Chaos Warbands, so this would work fine. The whole group wouldnt be Fallen though, as its rare for that many of them to group together. If you add a Sorcerer you could make him a Fallen Librarian. Those were rare but not unheard of. Generally id try to make some of the characters in your army the Fallen, not every man.

As for mutations, some are, some arent. Some gave themselves to Chaos, some just want to hide, some want to atone for their sins. Theyre all different.

Also, which God would they worship? I want to give them Marks of Nurgle but I don't particularly want them to be all rotty and Nurgly.

They Worship chaos undivided (I think).

In the book "Ravenwing," there seems to be more fallen then what was thought of in the past. I haven't completed the book but Sammual, Malficer, and Harahal are starting to think they are more bound to one another then they thought before. Cypher ofcourse being the leader. In the case were Malficer, Interragator-Chaplin, was reading through another Chappy diary/logs he found that they weren't exactly worshiping say a Chaos God but starting to understand more of why the Dark Angels Fallen decided to abandon there Codex. Then again, I haven't finished reading but I would already recommend the book

See I don't think they are exactly chaosy, the old DA dex said 'they fight warriors of the imperium and chaos with equal ferocity' or something to that extent, leading me to believe a third party took them. I personally want to make up a small (750 point or so) war and of the fallen using cypher and some FW 'heresy' pattern armor and say they fell to Malal so they can side with anyone as Allies of Convienence except chaos, to which they are Come the Apocalypse. Just my outlook on it

From what I've read there are different degrees of Fallen, some are really Chaosy (Luther) and some just went off because they knew they couldn't go back. I'm thinking of doing a more Luther type chaos one. But would Cypher roll with the Chaos group or not?

I'm about to post HEAVY SPOILERS of the Angels of Darkness book. Here's the pic so you can be sure it's not a book you are planning to read:





So, in short, if you are not planning to read the spoiler thing, yeah, they can have an army And I highly recommend that book.

I'm very unsure of Cypher, he seems more of myth then anything....That cover alone looks awesome for that book!

Maybe the 'Fallen' are actually loyal and the regular DA are the traitors? They hunt them down so no one would ever learn this.

In any case, we need to remember that if we accept the new megalegion sizes from HH, then the number of fallen increases dramatically too. They were about half of the DA legion, right? (Or third? I can't be bothered to check.) In old fluff legions used to be about 10 000 marines, now they are over 100 000. This means that there would've been originally tens of thousands of Fallen. Many have died or to been captured, but I'm sure thousands of them still remain. If we consider the model count of a standard CSM army, it sounds perfectly feasible they could all be Fallen.

Hmm it I guess it depends on the interpretation of just a few.

For a Legion that numbered in the tens or hundreds of thousands, just a few could be hundreds I guess.

In the Short story anthology Deathwing thereis a story called Unforgiven about a Fallen who has managed to wrangle a planet from Imperial rule and taken it over, he has surrounded himself with the pdf, who have become his own personal army, so I guess your Cultist troops, and there is also the Angel of Blades.

I read the title and could only think "Luther has a posse."

 Crimson wrote:
Maybe the 'Fallen' are actually loyal and the regular DA are the traitors? They hunt them down so no one would ever learn this.

In any case, we need to remember that if we accept the new megalegion sizes from HH, then the number of fallen increases dramatically too. They were about half of the DA legion, right? (Or third? I can't be bothered to check.) In old fluff legions used to be about 10 000 marines, now they are over 100 000. This means that there would've been originally tens of thousands of Fallen. Many have died or to been captured, but I'm sure thousands of them still remain. If we consider the model count of a standard CSM army, it sounds perfectly feasible they could all be Fallen.

I am not to sure about 10s of thousands of fallen, more like a few thousand. All of the Fallen had to come from the DA that were stationed on Caliban. Most of the DA would have been dispersed out in the crusade. Also it is not known how many DA on Caliban remained loyal to the Lion when the fighting started. The other factor reducing the number of fallen is that they were dispersed throughout time both forward and backward.

Certainly there is no reason not to make a CSM army themed around the fallen but I dont think there are thousands of them roaming around in M41.

JWhex wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Maybe the 'Fallen' are actually loyal and the regular DA are the traitors? They hunt them down so no one would ever learn this.

In any case, we need to remember that if we accept the new megalegion sizes from HH, then the number of fallen increases dramatically too. They were about half of the DA legion, right? (Or third? I can't be bothered to check.) In old fluff legions used to be about 10 000 marines, now they are over 100 000. This means that there would've been originally tens of thousands of Fallen. Many have died or to been captured, but I'm sure thousands of them still remain. If we consider the model count of a standard CSM army, it sounds perfectly feasible they could all be Fallen.

I am not to sure about 10s of thousands of fallen, more like a few thousand. All of the Fallen had to come from the DA that were stationed on Caliban. Most of the DA would have been dispersed out in the crusade. Also it is not known how many DA on Caliban remained loyal to the Lion when the fighting started. The other factor reducing the number of fallen is that they were dispersed throughout time both forward and backward.

Certainly there is no reason not to make a CSM army themed around the fallen but I dont think there are thousands of them roaming around in M41.

I tend to agree here... There were only a handfull of Dark Angels on Caliban at the time... Exact number is unknown to me or maybe to everyone... Make a fallen army if you wish,.. but keep the actual fallen to a minimum... Id say the leader,.. a squad of chosen and maybe a terminator or 2.. keep it to the most important individuals of your army...

Established DA fluff has a sizeable percentage of the Legion being the Fallen.
However, even if you accept the HH series and its numbers increase, tens of thousands of warriors scattered across 10,000+ years and a billion planets still makes it exceedingly rare for more than one or two to be found together.

IIRC, normally at most a squad is found together, and that's already exceedingly rare. Only Cypher has ever been able to gather anything approaching a warband size, and no one knows what his game is or where his allegiances lie. It's one of 40K's cooler mysteries, I think. It should remain that way.

Just have a few of them be real fallen and all the others new marines they has created from their geneseed. in my fallen force there are only two real fallen all the others are created from fallen geneseed of unforgiven geneseed captured by them.
I've always liked the idea that the fallen may have a somewhat good idea of where other fallen are operating (having some sort of link or underground network) and that's one of the reasons the unforgiven want them to repent.

As for the fallen I think how much they knew on Caliban varied greatly. Some like Luther will have know that they were working with chaos. Other less so.
And again later the Fallen aren't a uniform force but a number of individuals all trapped somewhere along the line between chaos and loyalist.
The traitor legions doesn't really trust them since they didn't join up with Horus, and if they tried going back to the imperium the unforgiven would torture them to death.
I'd say in this crapsack universe they're pretty much the most screwed people there are.
And selling yourself to chaos is about the only way out of that seat that they got (not that the legions will trust you anyway but then again they don't trust each other either).
Also while the chaos gods may mark the legions in a specific way their areas are quite broad and they are inherently chaotic.
Nurgle could for an example be ageing or death rather than disease.

as for Cypher he may be a highly regarded fallen but remember the words of the fallen on the interrogation table that has been in ever DA codex: "I have no lord or master".

and as for the scarcity of the fallen, it hardly matters if they are 10.000 they have been scattered all over the galaxy which is over 100.000.000.000 worlds. spanning an expanse of roughly 8.000.000.000 square lightyears. and also they are scatttered though time meaning that they may pop up any time from the warpstorm to the death of the universe. and some might have ended up in vacuum and died other may have died as the planet was torn apart or killed by the warpstorm itself. and then we have the unforgiven who have been hunting them for 10.000 years. nah having the leaders as true fallen and the others as later recruits is the best bet.

I was reading up on Night Lords and apparently them and the Dark Angels really hate each other. Would a squad of 5 Chosen (all Fallen) lead by Cypher, roll with a Warband of Night lords?

Cypher would ally with anyone of it served his purpose. the question is if the night lords would.

It's your fluff, do what you like with it! Although an entire army of Fallen is pretty unlikely, you could easily do a 30k schism Dark Angels army, or post-fall company fighting in the warp. The vagueness of the fluff with regard to the fallen means anything is possible.

The Fallen arn't a cohisve group. So it wouldn't be unheard of for there to be a largeish group of them trundling about as a warband.

Normally they operate in 1s and 2s but thats just whats normal, not absolute.