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I have done a quick search of the forum for anything directly relating to Rhino's in 6th Edition but my search was fruitless!

I want to include a Rhino for each tactical Squad in my Dark Angles list (2) and a Razorback for my command squad (librarian and command squad) however i don't want to spend the £60 ish that it will cost to get them (plus the cool forgeworld doors that i would want!) if they are going to sidelined after the first couple of games!

I have read a lot of posts saying that transports in general have been nerfed due to hull points being introduced however has anyone had any success using transports? I thought that with the majority of games being objective based they will help them zip around and claim them.

I am still without a solid list that i am going to use as i have only played a handful of games with my DA however I am pretty certain that I want to use the 2 Tac Squads and a command squad.

If anyone has any thoughts in general on Rhino's please share them!

Cheers

I think the main thing is to take something worth shooting at first, so the Rhinos are escaping the biggest guns, I can imagine hiding them behind terrain or other vehicles might help, but watch out for Deep striking and outflanking units. If you can give them cover saves that will help, I'm not so savvy with the DA don't they have a landspeeder that gives shroud

forgive me if I'm wrong.

I'm thinking of including Rhino's in my Chaos army, I really hate the idea of slogging up the board, Unless I have like 100 Orks then that's fine

Rhinos have always been fragile, adding hull points doesn't change that. The "easy" first blood VP is one reason people dislike them.

But they still do what they have always done: get your troops to the objectives. Some tricks were nerfed, like getting out and assaulting if they didn't move. Disembarking was mixed up, some new drawbacks, some new advantages.

If you want to take them, go for it.

You can go 18 inches in one turn with one. I say that helps with mobility quite a bit. Otherwise, your footslogging your guys, and it will take a lot longer to get there.

Rhino's, and transports in general, allow you to get your troops where you want them faster than if you don't have them. They are very useful for seizing ground early in the game and positioning troops in better positions.

As to their durability, well, rhino's arent very tough, but can shrug off basic weapon fire easily, and once your troops are in position, you can use them to block LOS, tankshock units off objectives or out of cover, and generally make a nuisance of themselves. they may not survive long, but that cheap transport can drasically improve your troops survival chances. also, dont forget that almost all vehicles (imperial at least) either come with as standard, or can purchase, searchlights and smoke launchers, smoke launchers will give you a 1/3 chance of avoiding damage (in the open at least) and can improve this by using cover, and search lights are very useful during a night fight

one trick is to forgo your shooting, which really isn't much of a loss, to move flat out. you do this after a unit you want covered has shot and block LOS to it. if the transport survives, then you can move it out of the way, and repeat the move next turn.
Given their light armour, you will find they wont last long in the face of concentrated heavy weapons fire, but being so cheap thats to be expected.

There is also the fact that they can easily give up first blood if your opponent shoots them, which has is both good and bad. Bad that you will be giving up 1vp for conceding first blood, and good that they are shooting at transports rather than anything more vital, and they will use more shooting than they really want to if you pop smoke and/or are in cover.

Another use for them is to keep the transport back, and then on the last turn use them to allow you to seize or contest an objective.

It should be noted of course, that Rhinos are not assault vehicles, and are only good for moving troops around the battlefield, if you try to 'rush' the enemy to get into assault, you will have to stand around for a full turn getting shot at before you assault. And i know thats not what you generally do with tactical marines anyway, but its worth pointing out

How useful transports are to you depends on your personal playstyle, and of course the rest of your army. I personally find razorbacks to be more useful, for only a few points more than a razorback you get a TL Heavy bolter, and since i combat squad my troops most of the time anyway the reduced transport capacity is a moot point

I second madtanbloke

Also good for creating cover in the first turn. If you are deploying second they make excellent screens to shield things you want to keep alive.

Rhinos should be "running" in the first turn; either to get closer to the emeny or (after having moved to free up LOS for your shooty unit) to cover LOS to your shooty unit ready for the next turn.

Good place to pop cultists while they wait to snaffle a late objective in your half, particularly if it has an extra combi-bolter and the cultists have a couple of rifles or a heavy stubber; turning it into a weak anti-personnel gunboat which most people ignore.

madtankbloke wrote:
Rhino's, and transports in general, allow you to get your troops where you want them faster than if you don't have them. They are very useful for seizing ground early in the game and positioning troops in better positions.

As to their durability, well, rhino's arent very tough, but can shrug off basic weapon fire easily, and once your troops are in position, you can use them to block LOS, tankshock units off objectives or out of cover, and generally make a nuisance of themselves. they may not survive long, but that cheap transport can drasically improve your troops survival chances. also, dont forget that almost all vehicles (imperial at least) either come with as standard, or can purchase, searchlights and smoke launchers, smoke launchers will give you a 1/3 chance of avoiding damage (in the open at least) and can improve this by using cover, and search lights are very useful during a night fight

one trick is to forgo your shooting, which really isn't much of a loss, to move flat out. you do this after a unit you want covered has shot and block LOS to it. if the transport survives, then you can move it out of the way, and repeat the move next turn.
Given their light armour, you will find they wont last long in the face of concentrated heavy weapons fire, but being so cheap thats to be expected.

There is also the fact that they can easily give up first blood if your opponent shoots them, which has is both good and bad. Bad that you will be giving up 1vp for conceding first blood, and good that they are shooting at transports rather than anything more vital, and they will use more shooting than they really want to if you pop smoke and/or are in cover.

Another use for them is to keep the transport back, and then on the last turn use them to allow you to seize or contest an objective.

It should be noted of course, that Rhinos are not assault vehicles, and are only good for moving troops around the battlefield, if you try to 'rush' the enemy to get into assault, you will have to stand around for a full turn getting shot at before you assault. And i know thats not what you generally do with tactical marines anyway, but its worth pointing out

How useful transports are to you depends on your personal playstyle, and of course the rest of your army. I personally find razorbacks to be more useful, for only a few points more than a razorback you get a TL Heavy bolter, and since i combat squad my troops most of the time anyway the reduced transport capacity is a moot point

This is spot on. Transports provide small arms protection to your marines and give you a wide array of options for seizing advantageous terrain and objectives when needed. They have some drawbacks, but at 35 points a Rhino they are not serious ones.

 Jasper wrote:
I second madtanbloke

Also good for creating cover in the first turn. If you are deploying second they make excellent screens to shield things you want to keep alive.

Rhinos should be "running" in the first turn; either to get closer to the emeny or (after having moved to free up LOS for your shooty unit) to cover LOS to your shooty unit ready for the next turn.

Good place to pop cultists while they wait to snaffle a late objective in your half, particularly if it has an extra combi-bolter and the cultists have a couple of rifles or a heavy stubber; turning it into a weak anti-personnel gunboat which most people ignore.

Another thing to do first turn during night fighting is to move them up, snap fire the storm bolter at something and click on the searchlight. Then the rest of your gunline opens up on the target without having to worry about stealth/shrouded from the night. You sacrifice a little position by not moving flat out, and you're not popping smoke, so might get toasted yourself, but hopefully you just killed a high priority target.

Taking a single Rhino-chassis vehicle is giving up First Blood. Taking multiple, especially when there's more important threats, as Dancingwolf said, is not a bad idea at all. If your opponent is too busy trying to take out your Vindicator, then you're fine. If you're taking a Rhino for each tactical squad, plus a razorback, that works. Transports give you mobility, and mobility is key to getting objectives. 5/6 of the book missions are objectives-based, so transports are still necessary, even if there's more ways to kill them.

Btw, I assume if you're using a razorback for your libby/Command Squad, that it's a power armored squad? What are you taking for the command squad? What are you going to equip the razorback with?

Putting that rhino behind an ADL also doubles its durability. That significantly lowers the chances of you losing a rhino on first turn.

Remember, this stacks with night fighting, so your rhinos might be getting a very good cover save from first round shooting.

The trick is you must have a tool to get first blood yourself. If you have all 24" guns, then having a ADL to help prevent first blood won't do you any good! You need to have some tools to get first blood yourself.

Hmmm, for me at least, if someone puts a Rhino down I just think ''Thanks for First Blood''.

FuzzyLogik,

When people use their long range weapon to shot up my rhinos in the first turn I think thankyou and now look at what my heavy weapons will do to your expensive uber units.

Heavy Bolter Razorbacks are my transport of choice in this edition. They're still very, very cheap and enable me to transport my Sternguard/Tactical Squads with ease. Plus they have some decent firepower and work pretty well versus FMC and some of the weaker flyers due to the massed TL S5 fire.

My BA primarily use razors as well for the extra pew pew. For me it's las/plas and TL HF varities.

Ultimately, as a lot of people in this thread have mentioned, Rhinos and transports in general still have a place in games. "First Blood" should honestly not be that big of a concern; what is a concern is unit mobility, and Rhinos offset that nicely. The faster your troops get to where they're needed, the better, and at the end of the day the loss of a transport or two isn't too big of a deal when it comes down to it.

I was thinking of TL HB for cheapness and hopefully to attract less attention than, for example, TL lascannon. As for the command squad im going to have an apothecary and a banner. I haven't tested any banners yet but I would like to field one. If anyone happens to have any feedback on the banners then that would be appreciated too.

I think im am most certainly going to go all out/semi-mech. I think it would look great on the battlefield and maybe a few preds, vindicator and land raider would add to the survivability of the transports!

 FuzzyLogik wrote:
Hmmm, for me at least, if someone puts a Rhino down I just think ''Thanks for First Blood''.

That's not always the case, as I illustrated before.
Lets say you have a lascannon manned by a marine. Your weapon has the following chances to destroy the rhino.

2/3 to hit
2/3 to penetrate
1/3 to kill
1/2 failed cover saves
This means that a single lascannon has 2/27 chance to destroy the rhino behind the ADL. (about 7.4%) Those are not really hot odds. Sure, you can strip off hull points, but even then a single LC has only a 1/6 chance to strip a hull point off.
This does not include the possibility of night fighting, which further reduces the chances of destroying rhinos to extremely low levels.

Some armies can do this. If your bringing a gunline Tau/IG army its quite possible you will have the firepower to do this with no problems. Not all armies have this capability. You might say "Well, my army can!" That's fine and good, but the majority of armies cannot.

The important element is that the rhino player must have a solution to get first blood themselves. If you just have a bunch of rhinos behind an ADL, over the course of 5-6 turns they will be destroyed. You need to have weapons in the rhinos (or other weapons) to get first blood yourself.

I don't generally rate Rhinos, but my current tourney list runs 5 Razorbacks (2 Assault Cannon, 2 TLLC, 1 TLHB) The AV11 can give away First Blood, but Razorbacks can also get you First Blood, there's nothing in the game that a Lascan can't sort out.

For both transports a key feature is the three access points, you can deploy aggressively to get a round of shooting or defensively by putting the transport between you and the target, protecting your troops until they can charge next turn.

If you are running Rhinos don't forget that you can fire 2 weapons from the top hatch, so a Vet or Command squad in a Rhino can pump out 4 SB shots and 2-4 plasma or 2 melta shots per turn. If you're feeling really aggressive you can try to get flamer shots out of the top hatch, but that's a decent risk.

I would never put a Rhino behind an ADL, you may get a cover save, but it's a Dangerous Terrain test to move forward and if you're going around the ADL then you probably could have deployed behind a terrain feature.

With the DA specifically you can put a Power Field Generator in a Rhino chassis and cover a very large area with the 4++ save. I run a Techmarine w/PFG attached to a squad w/meltagun and vet sgt. The Techmarine never leaves the Razorback and the squad (when deployed) stays right at the edge of the 3" area, giving themselves the save but denying it to assaulters.

I see where you're coming from, you can protect them behind an ADL but then I just see it as a waste. If you're buying transports you must want to get your units somewhere, otherwise your units can sit behind the ADL and you aren't limited to 2 fire points.

Personally I don't have many issues dealing with anything sub AV13 and so i'll generally go for anything lightly armoured or small squad with 4+ saves or worse.

As a GK player i don't field any rhinos or razorbacks (although i might be tempted with the latter at some point). I field Chimeras with Purgation squads which are always out of LoS until any ranged threat is dealt with. Other than thats its Landraiders of all types and a Stormraven which i'll always take a Librarian in it to give it shrouding.

Would drop pods not be a better option than Rhinos these days? you'll get to go pretty much where you want, everything will come out shooting, you can fit some missiles to the pod and you're sorted no? Plus your Devastators or other first blood getters can sit safetly behind ADLs or what have you.

Thats my oppinion at least.

 FuzzyLogik wrote:
I field Chimeras with Purgation squads which are always out of LoS until any ranged threat is dealt with. Other than thats its Landraiders of all types and a Stormraven which i'll always take a Librarian in it to give it shrouding.

You can't buy those Chimeras for the Purgation guys right, you have to buy them for henchmen, then you place both the Chimera and the Purgationers out of LoS next to each other...

 Clough1989 wrote:
. If anyone happens to have any feedback on the banners then that would be appreciated too.

standard of devastion is possbly the most game changing but if you use it rhinos arn't any good. standards are for lists that establish some form of defensive line were lots of units can benifit from it. as i dnot know your list im not sure i can say get one.
but in my opinoin rhinos are used if you need your army in many different places and banners are for keeping the army together and marching all over the board en masse

Rhinos are useful, but I wouldn't rely on them. They have been buffed and nerfed at the same time. Being able to move them far up the field (18" in a single turn) definitely helps with getting to opponent's backfield objectives. They also still do a good job of screening and blocking movement. They are a tool in your toolbox. If your list needs them, take them, if you feel that you can build a list without them, that is fine too. But I certainly wouldn't classify them as being useless.

Well imho Rhinos are still terrific. I run them to carry my troops in just about every CSM list I run. It's 35 points for a turn or so of invincibility for your men (run enough other threatening stuff and people generally own't focus Rhinos down turn 1 and 2) and a guaranteed 6" run towards objectives. Really for me it's the speed and protection it offers troops, also the pair of firing points help.

 Ixidor13 wrote:
Well imho Rhinos are still terrific. It's 35 points for a turn or so of invincibility for your men. Really for me it's the speed and protection it offers troops, also the pair of firing points help.

This. My SoB squads never leave home without a Rhino for each (unless I run 20 with Jacobus). It's an extra layer of protection for my scoring units and adds to their mobility. Dominion squads and Immolators is also a great deal. Did three games yesterday and the Rhinos/Immolators really pulled through when it came to getting me there to do the work and providing some protection for the squads. Getting two of my squads to hammer a single enemy will maul it severely or wipe it out even if it's 30 Orks.

Ofc I also abused the hell out of St Celestine and nine Seraphim with two double handflamer girls... Guess what people shot at, her or the Rhinos?

 Ixidor13 wrote:
Well imho Rhinos are still terrific. I run them to carry my troops in just about every CSM list I run. It's 35 points for a turn or so of invincibility for your men (run enough other threatening stuff and people generally own't focus Rhinos down turn 1 and 2) and a guaranteed 6" run towards objectives. Really for me it's the speed and protection it offers troops, also the pair of firing points help.

Agreed. For CSM specifically, having access to dirge casters and/or havoc launchers gives you a fair amount of extra utility for a cheap price tag.

35 pts for immunity to every bolter, shoota, lasgun, stormbolter, shuriken catapult on the field? 18" movement? Sold.

It was 11AV right?
Doesnt that mean a Str5 will glance on 6s?

Yeah, but you either need a pulse rifle, special or heavy weapon to get up to STR 5.

Rhinos still have a use, transporting shooting units around the field faster than they could walk.

Rhinos can no longer be used to effectively move CC units around.

That's all that happened.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, but you either need a pulse rifle, special or heavy weapon to get up to STR 5.

or psybolt ammo.