Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Could someone tell me what an IG battle company consists of

Such things don't really exist. Marine battle companies are a mix of different things to provide interlocking support units under the same command. The Guard were deliberately split into monolithic single troop type regiments (eg tank, infantry and artillery regiments, with no mixing of unit types in the same group) to make it harder for them to successfully go rogue.

Flinty has it right.

For example;

There are hydra flakk battery companies. But they rarely fight as a company (ver very very rarely). Most of the time they are attached to other forces as squadrons for anti-air purposes.

Exactly, so you'll have armoured regiments, or infantry regiments or mechanised infantry regiments.

The companies of those regiments will be made up of those unit types.

An infantry company will be composed of a number of squads grouped into platoons with support units like heavy weapon or special weapon teams.

Armoured companies are composed of squadrons of tanks. And so on.

Well, things change but the second edition Codex does show a company structure that is similar to a SM battle company in the sense that it was a mixture of units.

A regiment had 2-30 companies.

A Company had 3 platoons and usually 100 or so men

Each platoon had three infantry squads and a command squad

A platoon could have a chimera AND up to 3 additional units in support. These units could be a tank, ogryns, ratlings, HW squad, additional infantry squad etc.

Tank and Artillery companies had a hq tank and three squadrons of three tanks/artillery.

In third edition there is also a well defined organizational chart that defines the company structure as similar to 2nd edition. Main difference being there are more platoons and squads available as an option.

4th edition changed the company structure by attaching heavy and support squads to the command platoon. They did this in the fluff and in the army list.

By the way, a company going rogue really is not something the IG would be that worried about to the degree of not attaching noninfantry units to it. A company is only 100-200 men, that is nothing in scale of IG armies. A regiment going rogue is a whole different issue

There can also be combinations of two regiments to form different types of companys. For example dragoons combined with lightinfantry to provide scout dragoons or something.

I think you're thinking more of a combined arms battlegroup. That is effectively what you get in a 40k force, but the idea in the background us that its a temporary formation brought together when needed, rather than being a defined formation.

There are circumstances where Guard regiments will include infantry, armour & artillery, notably in the Death Korps of Krieg Siege regiments. Whilst the Siege regiments don't use their tanks en masse (preferring to split up the tank companies and spread them across the regiment to support the infantry advances) they still do use them. It's also noted that Krieg regiments take more artillery to war than any other Guard regiment.

Multiple regiments can be combined to form a new regiment - the current IG Codex mentions this on page 40, where it talks about the combining of the 182nd Catachan and 90th Elysian on Prosan to create the 314th Prosan - they ended up being experts in airmobile jungle warfare.

 Flinty wrote:
I think you're thinking more of a combined arms battlegroup. That is effectively what you get in a 40k force, but the idea in the background us that its a temporary formation brought together when needed, rather than being a defined formation.

No, as I said, company level organization is in the background for IG and they have mixed units.

The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...
A regiment is a relative term. It can be anything from a few hundred men to several tens of thousands of men.
A company would likely hit a roof at around 500 men (For an infantry regiment) but a platoon would only be a few squads and a squad probably at 10 men.

Personally I'd use the Cadian organisation for a shock regiment and use that as the most widespread organisation used by the Imperium.

 purplefood wrote:
The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...
A regiment is a relative term. It can be anything from a few hundred men to several tens of thousands of men.
A company would likely hit a roof at around 500 men (For an infantry regiment) but a platoon would only be a few squads and a squad probably at 10 men.

Personally I'd use the Cadian organisation for a shock regiment and use that as the most widespread organisation used by the Imperium.

The problem with your post is that you are just making stuff up and ignoring what has been written in the codex, which I typed out for the conveneince of people that do not own the 2nd and third edition codexes.

A company will max out at far fewer than 500 men and regiments are nowhere near "several tens of thousands".

If you look to the old Epic games, specifically 2nd edition, also known as Space Marine, it does offer a lot on company organization structure (part of which was replicated for the 2nd edition IG Codex and some bits in Apocalypse).

The individual companies were not combined arms. There were Leman Russ Armored companies, IG infantry companies, artillery companies, etc... However each company had the potential for additional detachments to be attached to it. These more specialized formations could be different, so might have contained Hydras, tanks, etc... These detachments were not part of the company proper though and were detached from their parent formations. For very specialized forces like Ogryns, they were always split up into detachments and their parent formation was purely for organizational and administrative purposes.

JWhex wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...
A regiment is a relative term. It can be anything from a few hundred men to several tens of thousands of men.
A company would likely hit a roof at around 500 men (For an infantry regiment) but a platoon would only be a few squads and a squad probably at 10 men.

Personally I'd use the Cadian organisation for a shock regiment and use that as the most widespread organisation used by the Imperium.

The problem with your post is that you are just making stuff up and ignoring what has been written in the codex, which I typed out for the conveneince of people that do not own the 2nd and third edition codexes.

A company will max out at far fewer than 500 men and regiments are nowhere near "several tens of thousands".

And the codex's cover very little compared to what we can reasonably assume happens.
Planets vary massively. Regiments raised by these planets also vary. As will their organisational structure. Hell our own organisational structure differs from country to country let alone planet to planet.
IIRC even the codex says something along those lines. The codex only shows the structure of the Cadian regiments IIRC. That's a single planet out of millions... Even if 50% of all regiments raised by the Imperium copied their exact structure that still leaves thousands more regiments which differ.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Cadian_Regimentmal_Organisation_med.jpg

is this what you are looking for?

 purplefood wrote:
The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...

Whose regimental structures are decided by the Munitorium;

Siege of Vraks Part 1;
"As has been noted, regiments are raised on Krieg with great frequency. The form and composition of these regiments will differ according to the edicts of the Departmento Munitorum and the strategic needs of the moment. Krieg supplies the manpower, the Departmento Munitorum organises that manpower in various different types of regiment."

I doubt Krieg is the only world whose forces are organised & whose regimental composition is drawn up by the Munitorum, so what if it is a common practice? Munitorum tells a world that it needs X number of regiments of these compositions of which several might include elements such as mechanised infantry companies in an armoured regiment or an infantry regiment with its own batteries of artillery? Or an artillery regiment with several armoured & infantry companies for support & protection? That the Krieg Siege regiments contain infantry, armour & artillery gives us a solid example of this practice from a famous world whose regiments organisation is dictated by the Munitorum.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...

Whose regimental structures are decided by the Munitorium;

Siege of Vraks Part 1;
"As has been noted, regiments are raised on Krieg with great frequency. The form and composition of these regiments will differ according to the edicts of the Departmento Munitorum and the strategic needs of the moment. Krieg supplies the manpower, the Departmento Munitorum organises that manpower in various different types of regiment."

I doubt Krieg is the only world whose forces are organised & whose regimental composition is drawn up by the Munitorum, so what if it is a common practice? Munitorum tells a world that it needs X number of regiments of these compositions of which several might include elements such as mechanised infantry companies in an armoured regiment or an infantry regiment with its own batteries of artillery? Or an artillery regiment with several armoured & infantry companies for support & protection? That the Krieg Siege regiments contain infantry, armour & artillery gives us a solid example of this practice from a famous world whose regiments organisation is dictated by the Munitorum.

Again that's a single world out of millions.
Krieg is also notable for being one of the few planets (Or only) allowed to use the vitae wombs.
I'd argue Krieg is the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself.

 purplefood wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...
A regiment is a relative term. It can be anything from a few hundred men to several tens of thousands of men.
A company would likely hit a roof at around 500 men (For an infantry regiment) but a platoon would only be a few squads and a squad probably at 10 men.

Personally I'd use the Cadian organisation for a shock regiment and use that as the most widespread organisation used by the Imperium.

The problem with your post is that you are just making stuff up and ignoring what has been written in the codex, which I typed out for the conveneince of people that do not own the 2nd and third edition codexes.

A company will max out at far fewer than 500 men and regiments are nowhere near "several tens of thousands".

And the codex's cover very little compared to what we can reasonably assume happens.
Planets vary massively. Regiments raised by these planets also vary. As will their organisational structure. Hell our own organisational structure differs from country to country let alone planet to planet.
IIRC even the codex says something along those lines. The codex only shows the structure of the Cadian regiments IIRC. That's a single planet out of millions... Even if 50% of all regiments raised by the Imperium copied their exact structure that still leaves thousands more regiments which differ.

The problem isnt your memory, the problem is you obviously have not seen the IG Codexes that have the regimental and company structure in them. In the organizational chart, Cadia is not even mentioned and the planet they are from dictates the nomenclature of the regiment's name not its structure.

Making up stuff is fine, but not useful in the sense that people like to know what background is actually presented in the codex. In fact according to the fluff the regiments are raised as a tithe to Terra so there is a reason why the structure would be very similar from planet to planet.

 purplefood wrote:
Again that's a single world out of millions.
Krieg is also notable for being one of the few planets (Or only) allowed to use the vitae wombs.
I'd argue Krieg is the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself.

Out of 1 million planets (give or take) & yes they are the only planet allowed, by edict from the High Lords of Terra, to use the Vitae Womb. You see, by your logic only the Valhallan's fight using massed infantry waves preceded by massed artillery bombardment because out of those million worlds we have one example of it and that's that. Yet surely sense dictates that there -must- be other worlds amongst that million who employ the same tactics and means of fighting, in the same way there must be other worlds where regiments are raised that include infantry, armour & artillery as dictated by the Munitorum. Think about it, a million worlds - what are the odds that the same things are not repeated across so many worlds?

Kriegs doctrin is unque and tempared from years of constant warfare. It makes absolute sence that DKOK dont use mechenized units from other foundings. Krieg dont play well with others. There soulless determined nature makes them a public relations nightmare. Thats why Krieg argueably the most loyal mustering have commissars. The chaps in the black jackets arent ment to keep the Krieg Guardsmen in line but to help bridge the gap between these killers in rebreathers and the other non DKOK regiments along with the loyal citzens. If you read Dead Men walking they talk a lot about about the way krieg operates.

Krieg's mentality towards warfare is not what's under debate here (and don't worry, I own Siege of Vraks: Part 1 and am well aware of their background ). It's that their organisation is drawn up by the Departmento Munitorum, the body responsible for the Imperial Guard, logistics, raising of regiments, training of troops, equipping them, transportation & to which warzones which regiments should be sent. Thus it makes sense that the Departmento Munitorum organises the regimental structures of forces from many worlds which may include regiments that have combined arms within the regiment itself. The Death Korps Siege regiment is an example of this and as we don't have every regiments structure down on paper, even for many of the 'famous' regiments, so there are good odds that Krieg is not unique in this.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
Krieg's mentality towards warfare is not what's under debate here (and don't worry, I own Siege of Vraks: Part 1 and am well aware of their background ). It's that their organisation is drawn up by the Departmento Munitorum, the body responsible for the Imperial Guard, logistics, raising of regiments, training of troops, equipping them, transportation & to which warzones which regiments should be sent. Thus it makes sense that the Departmento Munitorum organises the regimental structures of forces from many worlds which may include regiments that have combined arms within the regiment itself. The Death Korps Siege regiment is an example of this and as we don't have every regiments structure down on paper, even for many of the 'famous' regiments, so there are good odds that Krieg is not unique in this.

I understand. I was just throughing in my cheap two bits on the subject. Since I play DKOK and am a fan of the fluff, I figured I would way in why DKOK is not the normativ. but the arguement cluld be made that even Cadians could be very much under the same doctorin. Cadia being the gate world is under attack almost constantly and so a mustering of only Cadian soldiers and only Cadian tanks wouldnt be abnormal. I did see a guy who built his IG on the whole idea that platoons got mashed together out of need. he built his army on Cadian comand and had death worlders and even built some guys out of some fantasy minis to reprosent feral or medievel worlds.

I use gangers from necromunda as penal legion with an arbite minder.

JWhex wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
The problem is that's the organisation for a certain type of regiment from a single world...
A regiment is a relative term. It can be anything from a few hundred men to several tens of thousands of men.
A company would likely hit a roof at around 500 men (For an infantry regiment) but a platoon would only be a few squads and a squad probably at 10 men.

Personally I'd use the Cadian organisation for a shock regiment and use that as the most widespread organisation used by the Imperium.

The problem with your post is that you are just making stuff up and ignoring what has been written in the codex, which I typed out for the conveneince of people that do not own the 2nd and third edition codexes.

A company will max out at far fewer than 500 men and regiments are nowhere near "several tens of thousands".

And the codex's cover very little compared to what we can reasonably assume happens.
Planets vary massively. Regiments raised by these planets also vary. As will their organisational structure. Hell our own organisational structure differs from country to country let alone planet to planet.
IIRC even the codex says something along those lines. The codex only shows the structure of the Cadian regiments IIRC. That's a single planet out of millions... Even if 50% of all regiments raised by the Imperium copied their exact structure that still leaves thousands more regiments which differ.

The problem isnt your memory, the problem is you obviously have not seen the IG Codexes that have the regimental and company structure in them. In the organizational chart, Cadia is not even mentioned and the planet they are from dictates the nomenclature of the regiment's name not its structure.

Making up stuff is fine, but not useful in the sense that people like to know what background is actually presented in the codex. In fact according to the fluff the regiments are raised as a tithe to Terra so there is a reason why the structure would be very similar from planet to planet.

Actually he's right.

'Regiment' is the catch all term the Munitorium uses to describe the formations of the Imperial Guard. Each world may have it's own military organizational structure but in the Munitorium there's only the Regiment.

"An Imperial Guard Regiment is largely uniform in composition' pg 9 5th ed IG codex. You have Infantry Regiments, Armoured Regiments, Artillery Regiments, Drop Troop Regiments, Super Heavy Regiments, Mechanized Regiments etc.

"Regiments are typically raised with a strength of several thousand soldiers but the precise numbers can vary enormously. ... The Tundra Wolves consists of over 120,000 men." Pg 9 5th ed IG Codex.

At the Regimental and Company level they're of uniform composition. While on campaign however units are detached into temporary combined arms forces.