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So, I play Blood Angels but for a little time I have wanted to start another army and I tought orks would be nice to try. (Horde, not too much mech)
What do you think I should get first? I was thinking to buy Battleforce & Codex to start but besides those, what would be the 'must buy'-thing with orks?
What would be useful in 500pts list?

500 points? That will be 2 mobs of 30 boys and a hq

If your just starting buy a bucket load of boyz and then you can take it from there in whatever style of army you want.

Kans and dreads, battlewagons, and dakkaline are common favorites, but green tidee looks best if you're willing to put the hours in.

Well that seems nice, but I still have 2 questions:
1) Is there any useful troop choice besides normal boyz? That list seems to lack some tactical diversion.
2) What HQ would you recommend?

Build a solid core of Boyz, and then add whatever you want, as long as you got enough boyz you can take on anything!

Orks are the troops. All grots can do it sit objectives and fire quad guns.

Otherwise you can get nobz but they need a delivery system and arent realy meant for going for objectives.

There isn't much tactics in playing greentide, and for a hq, try big mek with kff or a warboss.

Have you tried googling ork tactics? Maybe that would be an idea.

Regular boyz are one of the best troop choices in the game - they're dirt cheap and a perfect example of volume making up for a lack of quality. Our Ork player likes to field them as Shoota boyz, considering the loss of one CC attack an acceptable trade for having 18'' range assault weapons. With enough orks shooting any target will be hurt, and then they can assault almost as well as the slugga/choppa boyz.

HQ? A warboss is never wrong, though people like the KFF Big Mek when they have more vehicles to protect.

Orks only have 2 troops, boyz and grotz

Boyz are point for point one of the best troop in the game. They are SLIGHTLY weaker (as in Str3 not Str4) than Marines w/o the armor for what 1/8th the cost or something like that? not sure off thetop of my head.

Grotz are purely for backfield objective holding if you are running a list that involves you running to their side of the table. They are pretty much free but have next to no statline. BS3 means they man a quad gun better but thats it. People like to have a group of 10 grotz for 40pts in reserve just to have them safely (usually) appear halfway through the game to grab an objective.

At 500pts youre pretty much limiting yourself to just mass boyz with a warboss or kff mek. The only other list you could run is mass grot which is pointless as anything T5+ they cant even attempt to hurt.

You could run a bikernob missile and have some grots in the back but thats a gamble as if you wiff a few early saves you just lost the game. On the flipside, not much could deal with them without getting lucky rolls lol.

EDIT: And the ork's Battleforce is damn awesome. Its the only battleforce i know of that gives you the units you actually give a crap about (Trukks not so much but that kit is awesome for conversions) and is actually ~10-20 dollars cheaper than buying the models normally. I bought 5 of those things when i started lol. Im a little overboard right now thanks to an ebay deal though, which i never thought i would reach lol.

A good and cheap way to get a horde of orks is go to ebay and buy and buy the slugga boyz from the previous boxed set, Assault on Black Reach.

What's hot:
Big mobs of infantry, full size.

20 strong infantry for battlewagon transport.

Dakkajets.

Cheaper nobsquads, mostly with big choppas, painboy and cybork, either as bikers or wagons.

Grot big guns. lobbas or kannons.

Looted wagons with boomguns. Cheap, expect them to die, use them to remove major threats on the opposing side, they will be useless once your mobs have crossed the rubicon.

15 Burnaboyz in a battlewagon, do the burny dance y'all...

Lootas remain a firm favorite, I like keeping them in small mobs as an annoyance and for taking down MFCs.

 soomemafia wrote:
Well that seems nice, but I still have 2 questions:
1) Is there any useful troop choice besides normal boyz? That list seems to lack some tactical diversion.
2) What HQ would you recommend?

1) Shoota Boyz as a staple. Large mobs preferably. Don't skimp on the rokkits and power klaw nobz. Grotz are a good way to protect your ladz - either as meatshields, or by charging a unit they're about to assault, and taking the overwatch for them. Cannon fodder, basically.

2) Big Mek with Kustom Force Field (5+ cover saves to all your gitz and vehicles within 12").

1/8 the cost of a marine? Well for a 6 point boy that would make a 48 point marine. What have you been smoking? You can get 2.5 orks for a DA or SW marine, which are both vastly superior to an ork.

Orks are not great troops in my opinion because they are not good at holding objectives and there only quality is their quantity, and until we get a new dex, their quantity does not equal quality.

gork and possibly mork wrote:
1/8 the cost of a marine? Well for a 6 point boy that would make a 48 point marine. What have you been smoking? You can get 2.5 orks for a DA or SW marine, which are both vastly superior to an ork.

Orks are not great troops in my opinion because they are not good at holding objectives and there only quality is their quantity, and until we get a new dex, their quantity does not equal quality.

Until they get into assault.

Admittedly, however, their points were based on 4th ed effectiveness, which they no longer have.

Thanks a lot for this! But still have one question, do the normal boys have anything good against a bit tougher tank? Dreadnought or such.

And what would be good way to use Nobs? (Squad size?)

 soomemafia wrote:
Thanks a lot for this! But still have one question, do the normal boys have anything good against a bit tougher tank? Dreadnought or such.

And what would be good way to use Nobs? (Squad size?)

For anti-tank you'll want rokkits (one for every ten boyz) and power klaw nob leaders.

Nob squads should be anywhere between 5-10 in strength, and bring power klaws. Possibly a painboy for FnP (it's a real pain in the ass to kill).
For extra fun, put a power klaw warboss with the nobz to murder everything.

EDIT: klaw'd nobz are great at tank/MEQ/TEQ hunting.

 Selym wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
do the normal boys have anything good against a bit tougher tank?

For anti-tank you'll want rokkits (one for every ten boyz) and power klaw nob leaders.

Power Klaws, aye. A PK nob in every larger boyz mob is almost mandatory, and a PK warboss as HQ will often turn out to be your best anti-tank. I know mine usually is - he's taken out more Land Raiders than any other model of mine (across several armies). Granted people don't often try LRs against anything else than my orks as they're expensive and vulnerable against the newer better equipped armies.

You need to equip the nob with eavy armor and be careful how he's placed in the unit to avoid sniping and having him killed with challenges.

Nobody here has recommended using Trukks so far. What's wrong with them?

 soomemafia wrote:
Nobody here has recommended using Trukks so far. What's wrong with them?

Paper-thin armor and too few passengers to be a threat unless they're nobz with a Warboss, mostly. My mate does use one as a warboss delivery device but it is a bit risky - it goes full speed and Flat Out in his turn, then blows up in mine often taking some passengers with it.

 soomemafia wrote:
Nobody here has recommended using Trukks so far. What's wrong with them?

Troops transported in a trukk are too small to be effective.

Elites are too expensive to be transported in something that dies readily to any and all small arms fire.

I have debated using one with a small mob of boyz, held in reserve, to be used to 'plug holes' in an ork gunline. Unfortunately reserve continues to be too unpredictable to make me go with it over another choice for the points.

Okay, thaks to all, you've been helpful!

Another vote for looking for Black Reach stuff on eBay. You can get all the nobz and slugga boyz you'll ever need, as well as the best looking (non-Ghazghkull) warboss model they've released. Generally, though, slugga boyz are not as good as shoota boyz. Any kits you get with the option of both (such as the battleforce, which I'll also recommend) should be assembled with shootaz.

The Loota/Burna box is a pretty good value, as you can use Black Reach boyz to assemble all of the weapon arms and get 9 figures (4 lootaz, 4 burnaz, 1 mek) out of an intended 5-man kit. Even if you don't end up fielding all of them at once, it gives you more options.

Don't overlook WHFB orc kits. I used boar boyz to build a warbiker squad, both because I liked the concept and because it's a much cheaper kit (5 for $29, instead of 3 for $42). Black Orcs are a fantastic kit for mixing with Nobz. And the fantasy Boyz kit is very compatible with 40k boyz. I eBayed a bunch of fantasy legs and torsos because they were going cheaper than the 40k equivalents, and they look just fine mixed in.

Finally, loot anything and everything. Other factions, other companies' minis, toys, model kits, heck I built a turret out of plumbing connectors on my newest battlewagon. If you haven't started working with plasticard yet, orks are the best faction for learning how to use it, since even if your constructions look like crap they still fit in with the rest of the army. For me, scratchbuilding and conversion is the most fun part of the modeling side of the hobby, and Orks are the ultimate faction for that.

I have to agree with the suggestions for Lootas, big blocks of boyz with shootas, big gunz.

Thanks for tips! But I'm just wondering, why do you think shootas are so much better than sluggas? That BS2 isn't really made for shooting

 soomemafia wrote:
Thanks for tips! But I'm just wondering, why do you think shootas are so much better than sluggas? That BS2 isn't really made for shooting

The vast number of shots migitate it, and are better than the +1 attack you'd get from a slugga. It's also quite scary to charge a full mob of shootaz (60 Str 4 Ap 5 shots. Odds of ten hits).
Furthermore, you can charge after firing, and it allows some area denial if you're sitting on an objective.
Oh, and it's better than sluggas at firing out of your open-top transports

Shoota Boyz are great

When you move up in points, Meganobz in a Trukk are great.

Lootas get even better if you stick them behind an ADL.

Don't discount Burnaboyz either, but I think they work better at higher point values as you can stick them in a battlewagon with deffrolla.

1d4chans ork tactics thread is pretty accurate for 6th.

I'd buy some boys (battleforce is an okay deal) a battlewagon, a dakka jet, and then some lootas. Solid start there. Some people swear by the KFF mek, I prefer a warboss.

I love threads like this . I've been playing Orks for a solid 7 years and I can't find another army that I'm nearly as passionate about. With that said, here we go.

Orks are amazing because you and build almost any style of list and it can be just as effective as the next list. I'll break this post down by play styles and highlight the key units to make everything work.

Green Tide: this is my main choice of list for the Orks. I typically run 6 full squads of 30 boyz. With them being so cheap, you can run a TON of support behind them and it can be quite effective. I do have to agree that shootas are a little better then sluggas, however, I find a mix of the two to be best. For those long drawn out assaults that your going to go multiple turns in, sluggas REALLY pull out ahead. Once your strength is down to 3, that extra attack really goes a long way.

HQ: choices for green tide.
-KFF Mek is absolutely necessary. That 5+ doesn't seem amazing, but you wouldn't believe how many boyz it saves as your trudging across the board. With that being said, a KFF is the only choice I would strongly recommend with a green tide.

Troops: obviously large mobs of boyz. Roll of thumb, I would try to have one more shoota squad then you have sluggas. It just seems to work out the best. Sluggas provide an awesome deadly screen and your shootas get to weaken up the units before your sluggas assault them. Also, I know people say they run mobs of 20 and footslog them... Don't do it. You truly need 30 strong mobs to make it across no mans land and still be effective.

Elites: We have some amazing choices here, but in my competitive list, I truly don't even use elites... However, with a green tide, lootas are absolutely amazing to take out some of those threats down range. Not only transports, that your boyz can easily take care of, but MCs and dread naughts that can really cause issues for your boyz. I would recommend running lootas in squads of 10. Some people say they run min squads of 5, but I've found them to be a waste of points and very ineffective in the long run.

Other elite options would you Nobz in a wagon. Now with the Green Tide style of play, it may not be the best option to run a wagon since all of their anti armor will be going into one target, but I've found if you run two wagons it's quite effective and works rather well. You only need one turn to get nobz or mega nobz into their deployment and your golden... After that the wagon can blow up and you won't miss it much. I would suggest running mega nobz... Super tough and they hit like trains and their pretty cheap for what they are. You could also run normal nobz, but I've found them to be way to squishy if you happen to lose your transport early on. If your thinking about running normal nobz, please out them on a bike. Biker nobz are super fast and they come with a cover save... Very effective if you bring them up one flank along side 180 boyz

Heavy Support:
Grot. Kannons for the WIN! For 60 points you get 3 amazing amazing amazing Kannons. You can get anything cheaper and more effective. These things can bring down armor as well as drop some small blasts and thin out hordes. Not to mention their toughness 7 so they soak up fire like no ones business. I can't even express to you how awesome they are. Even if they don't kill anything, they typically draw some fire away and are always around at the end of the game. I love them.

If your not taking battle wagons, your taking grot Kannons

Fast Attack:
Dakka Jets are the bomb...l period. Yea they go down fast, but for minimal points, they allow you to shoot the absolute gak out of anything on the board, and your going to murder whatever you shoot at on the waaaaggghhh. I would never take only one though. I typically run two and sometimes wish I ran three. If you can find the points, run three and thank me later.

Storm boyz: their super duper expensive but I absolutely love them. If you really want to overwhelm the absolute gak out of your opponent run 60 of these dudes as well as 180 boyz lol. I've done it before and not only is it amazing to see, but it is extremely effective. You just have to be sure to use the cover that's on the board and play smart. Their not a unit that you can be super aggressive with.

Buggies: I don't have a lot of experience with these, but I've been told their super effective. I would be more inclined to run them in a speed freaks style army though. Giving them rockets is apparently the way to go.

Deff Koptas: once again, their ok. I've run them before, but after running storm boyz and dakka jets, their super lack luster. I would stick to the jets.

Reason I'm not a fan of the buggies or the Koptas is because I never leave home without my Kannons, so I already have a way to deal with transports and armor so I've never seen the need for Koptas or buggies since the Kannons are so much cheaper.

Aegis Line:
If your running lootas or Kannons, please take it. It's amazing to toss and objective behind and if you throw another unit of grots behind it to hold that objective, their going to last the entire game. I've used the quad gun and it does fairly well with grots manning it, but I typically run a coms relay for all my dakka jets.


Speed Freaks:
I'm not going to go into as much detail with the other lists, but I will touch on the general idea.

If your bringing trucks, bring a lot of them. Also it really helps to bring nob bikerz with a speed freaks list. The nob bikers are tough as nails and it takes away a lot of fire from your paper trucks.

Another angle of the speed freaks is bringing two or three battle wagons. I know their a bit slower, but they still move 18 inches a turn and it creates a nice wall to hide your trucks behind. They also soak up a lot of fire. Doubling wagons with nob bikers will really help your trucks get to where they need to go.

Truck and battle wagon load outs:
Always run trucks with sluggas... They need to be assaulting and 12 shoota boyz can't shoot enough bullets to make them worth your while.
Wagons: there are a solid group of guys that swear by shoota boyz in wagons... Here is my only bear with that. While the wagon has amazing front AV, the sides are super weak. I'm assuming with a shoota boy load out, you would want to keep them in the wagon as long as possible, which only makes sense. Now the problem with that is... After turn one, once you move up 12-18 inches, your side armor is going to be very, very exposed. If someone wants that wagon gone, it's gone on turn two. Now you can argue that you would then have 20 shoota boyz in range to lay down fire... I agree, but now their sitting ducks and your more then likely going to want to get them into assault, or their going to be gunned down from being exposed in the middle of the board. Now with sluggas on the other hand... You move them up 18 inches and just focus on getting them into assault. Even if you get popped, your going to be aiming to assault something and that's where sluggas shine... YMMV but sluggas take the cake in wagons for me.

Along with your trucks and bikes, fill your fast choices with dakka jets and you have a super fast, hard hitting list with a decent amount of support.

Gun line Orks:
This is super fun . Take every shoota aspect of the Orks and spam the absolute hell out of them. We're talking about 4-5 squads of shoota mobs that are 30 man strong... Grot Kannons, lootas, dakka jets, a Big Mek with a Shok attack gun and an aegis line for awesome cover. Watch your opponent try to get passed the tide as your laying down massive amounts of str 8,7, and 6 shots. Dakka dakka dakka

With the gun line style, I would recommend a counter assault unit to be a bit of a hammer in case things break your lines. Nob bikers work really well for this, as well as mega nobz in trucks that you can either hold in reserve or just keep them hidden in the back until they need to pop out and krump something.

As far as the viability of the three different builds, I would have to suggest a mix between the green tide and the gun line. Dealing with 120-180 ork boyz as well as the gun line supporting it is a pain in the ass... Not to mention you have so many troops on the table for objective games.

And to answer your question about 500 points... Two full squads of shoota boyz with a nob and a power klaw, and a KFF Mek as an HQ... Someone else said the same thing and I'm telling you... You won't lose at 500 points with that list.

I know this was long, but I hope it was somewhat informative and you take something from it... Also if your interested, feel free to look at my battle reports here on dakka. I have a ton of games with my green tide, and you can see how they perform. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me . Welcome to the green side... Waaaaggghhh On!

Other than what's already been said, the Big Mek with KFF is just not my cup of tea. Yeah, you get a 5+ save but it's just not worth the points cost, IMO.

If you want a Big Mek, go with a SAG. The Shokk Attack Gun is awesome in terms of range and when you roll the golden boxcars with them you literally wipe out whatever winds up under the pie plate.

Either way, welcome to the Waaagh! May Mork and Gork look down upon you with favor!

 soomemafia wrote:
Nobody here has recommended using Trukks so far. What's wrong with them?

The only real way to use them apparently is to spam them. I'm building up a Speed Kult themed Ork army where every ork has to be able to move 12 (or 13": red paint, or more if I get those flyers) and I'm not planning on having any footsloggers except maybe Stormboyz who can move 12" from being jump infantry anyway and Grots/Kans because Grots are lowly servants and probably not allowed to ride their wagons and trukks.

Trukks are Firstblood fodder. They die the instant anything with any strenght looks at them, and usually get glanced to death by random infantry. They limit your boyz to 12 a squad which hurts BIG time because you lose fearless instantly, and they cost a fair penny for what they do.

35pts base (45pts optimized) for basically a 1 turn free 25" movement (13 with RPJ, 12 overdrive) for what normally moves 6-12". I dont see a point though since you are immediately in the critical point of numbers and you give FB every time you run them.

Unlike the Rhino, the trukk has no other use than to surge forward as far as it can before exploding. You CAN put lootas in it but thats more suicidal than putting them in the open since the explosion hurts them a LOT. Also theres no way to give it to them without wasting a troop slot or having 12boyz take one but not use it, which is just as bad of a waste.

I dislike trukks and battlewagons in general. Battlewagons are only tanky up to halfway across the board, then they expose their AV12 which is a cakewalk in today's meta to deal with. If it were AV13 on the sides, even if it was a 15pt upgrade to get it, they would be a million times better as AV13 is the line where vehicles start getting pretty strong vs lame as hell. I do better running 80boyz on foot than i do 60 in wagons, and its cheaper to do it that way.