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Hi all,
I've decided I'm going to make a Tau army themed after the Ming Dynasty of China, primarily based on the Red Turban Rebellion and the establishment of the dynasty.
The fluff I've conceived starts with a young Tau Ethereal by the name of Aun'Ma'Gao, who is rather disturbed by what happened to the human population of Taros after the Tau took over. specifically she sees the sterilization of the population as a waste, and is looking for another alternative. The rationale for what happened on Taros was that the population could not be controlled in the long term, so Aun'Ma'Gao believes that if she could find a way to quickly integrate a population into the empire with little input future populations could be spared. working with the Earth Caste she devises a synthetic plague that due to physiological similarities will turn a human population into Tau within the span of a few years. she sees a lot of potential in this plague, as it allows a planet to be taken without the need for diplomats or soldiers, and to have a full functioning tau population ready for full integration into the empire. the other Ethereals give her leave to test the plague on a small Agri-World known as Han IV. and that's where the story begins.
so what does everyone think? would this fluff work? are there any modifications I should make?

Meh, a plague that turns humans into Tau? Dunno, I think is pretty strange at the least.
I don't know, how about pheromones control? Or, heck why not, psychic control? I don't think humans can become Tau, it's not like the Tau can do like the 'Nids or something along that line.

All of this, of course, IMHO

Why don't you try to make your army's background based on the Japan's feudal era? Or on the Republic of China (1912–1949)?

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
Meh, a plague that turns humans into Tau? Dunno, I think is pretty strange at the least.
I don't know, how about pheromones control? Or, heck why not, psychic control? I don't think humans can become Tau, it's not like the Tau can do like the 'Nids or something along that line.

All of this, of course, IMHO

Warp majykz is all I'm saying to that

 Selym wrote:

Warp majykz is all I'm saying to that

Warp? Tau don't use warp 'cause they haven't a... "warp presence" (?) like mankinds or Eldars.
Nah.

I think what he's trying to say is that compared to what warp magic can do, nothing seems all that strange in the 40k universe. also as far as the psychic and pheromone control, the plague is designed to make them vulnerable to Ethereal pheromone control, it was just easier to have the plague re-code the DNA of the entire subject rather than just the brain. also as far as psychic control, like you said Tau have no psykers, so they can't really psychically control the planet.

Wouldn't attempt to turn one species into another with a "synthethic plague". In 40k, this leads to unexpected results.
You plan for Tau but get Orks. Or worse the plague keeps twisting the poor infected and they change back and forth and die horribly...

So No, copy from China all you want but "plagues" are a bad idea.


Until....the "innocent" Tau don't realize where the idea comes from. Unwilling minions of Nurgle they will be. A Zombie plague unleashed...

well the foundations of the Ming Dynasty was built on the devastation that wracked the empire caused by the Black Death. so there needs to be some kind of disease that kills a significant portion of the population. also if the plague doesn't kill everyone who is infected by it, but uses them as carriers to spread the plague, that would give the Imperium reason to quarantine the planet and let the Tau do whatever they want while they imperials get the heck out of dodge.

I could see a hybrid with short term results, while a full transformation comes after a while. The reaction to the changes would be messy in more ways than one, wide spread violence and panic, genetic mutations run amok. That would make your army a clean up crew, hiding away the Tau's dirty secrets, which would fit perfectly into the grimdark of 40k.

 yeri wrote:
well the foundations of the Ming Dynasty was built on the devastation that wracked the empire caused by the Black Death. so there needs to be some kind of disease that kills a significant portion of the population. also if the plague doesn't kill everyone who is infected by it, but uses them as carriers to spread the plague, that would give the Imperium reason to quarantine the planet and let the Tau do whatever they want while they imperials get the heck out of dodge.

Might sound lame but why not just count the "plague" as a reason to model all of your miniatures with helmets on. the few without bear disfiguring mutation and a short horridly accelerated death, but not before they cause a bloody mess for the tau clean up crew


Automatically Appended Next Post:
that or paint them up looking like death guard but with an historical asian theme to it?

 yeri wrote:
Hi all,
I've decided I'm going to make a Tau army themed after the Ming Dynasty of China, primarily based on the Red Turban Rebellion and the establishment of the dynasty.
The fluff I've conceived starts with a young Tau Ethereal by the name of Aun'Ma'Gao, who is rather disturbed by what happened to the human population of Taros after the Tau took over. specifically she sees the sterilization of the population as a waste, and is looking for another alternative. The rationale for what happened on Taros was that the population could not be controlled in the long term, so Aun'Ma'Gao believes that if she could find a way to quickly integrate a population into the empire with little input future populations could be spared. working with the Earth Caste she devises a synthetic plague that due to physiological similarities will turn a human population into Tau within the span of a few years. she sees a lot of potential in this plague, as it allows a planet to be taken without the need for diplomats or soldiers, and to have a full functioning tau population ready for full integration into the empire. the other Ethereals give her leave to test the plague on a small Agri-World known as Han IV. and that's where the story begins.
so what does everyone think? would this fluff work? are there any modifications I should make?

1.) What bad thing happened on Taros? Prisoners of War on a mining planet working in mines? When all others also work in mines?
2.) The sterilization thing didn't happen. Not on Taros. Not in any official GW product. An imperial narrator was contemplating this as the third likeliest explanation of declining human population (where most males and females were living in separate camps) in an alternative universe ending in a computer game.
3.) Tau don't want anyone else becoming a Tau.
4.) A plague that transforms one species into a completely different one? Doesn't work. Even if "a technology did it", no ethereal would allow that risky thing, no anti-sterilization ethereal would come up with it.
5.) No more need for Fire Caste and Water Caste? Imagine what the answer of these castes would be.

ANti-sterilisatin ettherial? I can see that.

Turning humans into tau? Can't see that, too far fetched in my mind. However they could use Gue'vesa as a kind of labour caste', or a disposable fire caste, and manipulate them to further suit that role.

The tau are as likely to turn humans into tau, as the imperium is to try and turn the tau into humans. They just wouldn't want to. The tau may take some humans into the greater good, but they wouldn't try to actually turn them into tau, it would be a waste of their resources, and thematically, seem's pretty impossible, even by 40k lore standards.

 Kroothawk wrote:

1.) What bad thing happened on Taros? Prisoners of War on a mining planet working in mines? When all others also work in mines?
2.) The sterilization thing didn't happen. Not on Taros. Not in any official GW product. An imperial narrator was contemplating this as the third likeliest explanation of declining human population (where most males and females were living in separate camps) in an alternative universe ending in a computer game.
3.) Tau don't want anyone else becoming a Tau.
4.) A plague that transforms one species into a completely different one? Doesn't work. Even if "a technology did it", no ethereal would allow that risky thing, no anti-sterilization ethereal would come up with it.
5.) No more need for Fire Caste and Water Caste? Imagine what the answer of these castes would be.

1) last time I listen to Lexicanum
2) ditto
3) it's not that they want them to become Tau, they just want them to be open to Ethereal control. the fact that they become tau is more of a side effect than anything else.
4) I could tell you that such a thing could work, and here's how: the plague is a retrovirus that modifies the base genetic structure of the host, causing any new cells to follow the retrovirus modified Tau pattern. we could actually make something like this in the near future to treat birth defects.
5) it's more a recruitment tool than anything else, the empire simply doesn't have the manpower to expand as fast as it would like AFAIK. so when there's a little backwater world that they normally wouldn't bother with, they can drop the virus and take the planet without committing major resources to it. it also works on well fortified worlds to soften them up for takeover.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

Warp majykz is all I'm saying to that

Warp? Tau don't use warp 'cause they haven't a... "warp presence" (?) like mankinds or Eldars.
Nah.

One does not need to be able to manipulate the warp to be affected by its corruption. Which before someone comes along and starts up, is completely different from falling to it.

That being said it's pretty far-fetched they wouldn't just mutate them into more of a Tau/Human hybrid or just kill them instead.

 yeri wrote:

1) last time I listen to Lexicanum
2) ditto
3) it's not that they want them to become Tau, they just want them to be open to Ethereal control. the fact that they become tau is more of a side effect than anything else.
So why don't you make simply a plague that affect the braincells of the humans and that make them slave?
4) I could tell you that such a thing could work, and here's how: the plague is a retrovirus that modifies the base genetic structure of the host, causing any new cells to follow the retrovirus modified Tau pattern. we could actually make something like this in the near future to treat birth defects.
What?! Do you know that this doesn't justify nothing? How can you trasform a human in a shark (this is an example)? A virus can't do that, you need extra organs (sharks have to dicks for example) and some others need to destroyed. I still think is too weird, it's impossible. DNA and organs aren't the same thing, and I don't think that Tau and Humans have the SAME exact anatomy.
5) it's more a recruitment tool than anything else, the empire simply doesn't have the manpower to expand as fast as it would like AFAIK. so when there's a little backwater world that they normally wouldn't bother with, they can drop the virus and take the planet without committing major resources to it. it also works on well fortified worlds to soften them up for takeover.

My 2 cents

Ok I can see that this current story will not likely work, but what if the release of the plague was a mistake? Say that some Tau Earth Caste was working on nanobots for medical purposes, and during the Damocles Gulf Crusade he or she was forced to abandon the work in an underground bunker. then years later a local Promethbug (a native giant insect that urinates promethium) rancher finds that one of his bugs has broken into the bunker, and in being curious he accidentally releases the nanobots. If you've seen the Dr. Who episodes "the Empty Child" and "the Doctor Dances" you know where this is going. the nanobots think they are supposed to be repairing Tau, so when they come in contact with a human they assume that it is a Tau and begin "repairing" it based on Tau physiology. would that work?

 yeri wrote:
Ok I can see that this current story will not likely work, but what if the release of the plague was a mistake? Say that some Tau Earth Caste was working on nanobots for medical purposes, and during the Damocles Gulf Crusade he or she was forced to abandon the work in an underground bunker. then years later a local Promethbug (a native giant insect that urinates promethium) rancher finds that one of his bugs has broken into the bunker, and in being curious he accidentally releases the nanobots. If you've seen the Dr. Who episodes "the Empty Child" and "the Doctor Dances" you know where this is going. the nanobots think they are supposed to be repairing Tau, so when they come in contact with a human they assume that it is a Tau and begin "repairing" it based on Tau physiology. would that work?

I don't think so, the humans organs, still, are different from the Tau's one. Plus, I don't think this would make the Humans change into Tau.
I'd say: a poison, a machine, a plague that make the humans brainless slaves. Like zombies .
So you can even use 'em as auxiliar in your Tau army

what is it with you and organs?
the nanobots would basically break down the human's body and reshape it into that of a Tau. the nanobots are unfinished, so they assume that the things that make a human human are errors, and it attempts to correct them. yes it's not a 100% success rate, but a good portion of the population of the planet would be converted into Tau. those that are incompatible with the nanobots would die a slow and painful death as their bodies are broken down, but not rebuilt.

 yeri wrote:
what is it with you and organs?
the nanobots would basically break down the human's body and reshape it into that of a Tau. the nanobots are unfinished, so they assume that the things that make a human human are errors, and it attempts to correct them. yes it's not a 100% success rate, but a good portion of the population of the planet would be converted into Tau. those that are incompatible with the nanobots would die a slow and painful death as their bodies are broken down, but not rebuilt.

Nope, nanobots are configurated on the Tau's anatomy, right? If they detect even the lightest difference they probably won't work, or even if they do they'll screw up the human's body.
What conversion? Do you understand that there is a difference bigger than DNA or organs? You can't trasform Iron in Gold, even with the technology.

but iron and gold are elements, the proteins that make up the bodies of living creatures are fairly interchangeable. that's how we can use insulin from cows to treat diabetes. I claim nowhere that this is hard science (ok maybe I did with the retrovirus thing) and I just said that the nanobots were configured to Tau anatomy, but that if they come in contact with anything closely resembling Tau (mammalian, humanoid, intelligent) they will assume it is a heavily mutated Tau, and attempt to correct the mutation. I think we're losing something in translation.

The long and short of it is, do what you want, it's your army, your fluff, but the storyline as it stand's, will most likely garner a lot of rolled eyes to those you tell it to.

But thinking about it:

1. The tau are the least xenophobic race in the galaxy, thus the least likely to attempt something like this. They take in kroot, vespid, and a whole other host of alien species, including humans.
2. Wouldn't these viruses/nanobot's just be, the best weapon in the universe? Drop it on a planet, and create your own tau-marines, tauranids, torks, taudar, and in the case of nanobot's, taucrons.

yeri wrote:but iron and gold are elements, the proteins that make up the bodies of living creatures are fairly interchangeable. that's how we can use insulin from cows to treat diabetes. I claim nowhere that this is hard science (ok maybe I did with the retrovirus thing) and I just said that the nanobots were configured to Tau anatomy, but that if they come in contact with anything closely resembling Tau (mammalian, humanoid, intelligent) they will assume it is a heavily mutated Tau, and attempt to correct the mutation. I think we're losing something in translation.

IIRC Tau aren't mammals. Do you know that? Tau and mammalians haven't the same anatomy, so is a big "feth YOU" to everything real science and WH40k Science tell us

Evileyes wrote:The long and short of it is, do what you want, it's your army, your fluff, but the storyline as it stand's, will most likely garner a lot of rolled eyes to those you tell it to.

^This, all of this.

Well trust me, it will be much more interesting and grimdark in long form. even I think the short form is kind of corny, but I've got a story planned out that makes a lot more sense.

 yeri wrote:
Well trust me, it will be much more interesting and grimdark in long form. even I think the short form is kind of corny, but I've got a story planned out that makes a lot more sense.

If I can tell my opinion freely I'd say: really, really bad. I approve the whole "we have to submit the PUNY HUMANZ!1!" thing, very grimdark indeed, but this... man this is beyon corny, this is KHORNEy.
No, really. I have pretty much a very open mind, but this... no.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

yeri wrote:but iron and gold are elements, the proteins that make up the bodies of living creatures are fairly interchangeable. that's how we can use insulin from cows to treat diabetes. I claim nowhere that this is hard science (ok maybe I did with the retrovirus thing) and I just said that the nanobots were configured to Tau anatomy, but that if they come in contact with anything closely resembling Tau (mammalian, humanoid, intelligent) they will assume it is a heavily mutated Tau, and attempt to correct the mutation. I think we're losing something in translation.

IIRC Tau aren't mammals. Do you know that? Tau and mammalians haven't the same anatomy, so is a big "feth YOU" to everything real science and WH40k Science tell us

Evileyes wrote:The long and short of it is, do what you want, it's your army, your fluff, but the storyline as it stand's, will most likely garner a lot of rolled eyes to those you tell it to.

^This, all of this.

actually they are evolved from mammalian ungulates according to everything I've read. the signs are there, they have hair (not much but they do have it) they give live birth apparently, the only thing I can think of that would stop them from being mammals is if they did not produce milk for their young, and that is unconfirmed.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 yeri wrote:
Well trust me, it will be much more interesting and grimdark in long form. even I think the short form is kind of corny, but I've got a story planned out that makes a lot more sense.

If I can tell my opinion freely I'd say: really, really bad. I approve the whole "we have to submit the PUNY HUMANZ!1!" thing, very grimdark indeed, but this... man this is beyon corny, this is KHORNEy.
No, really. I have pretty much a very open mind, but this... no.

Agreed. I have to say, if I were to rank it, i'd say.

3rd place - Playing the ork's who just happened to mutate to be super-intelligent.

2nd place - Playing the undiscovered space marine legion whose primarch was the emperor.

1st place - Transform'a'Tau

Ehm... the 2nd is known... you know, Grey Knights... btw, yeah.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
Ehm... the 2nd is known... you know, Grey Knights... btw, yeah.

If were looking at corny fluff, I still rank it as second, even if GW wrote it...Damn Draigo...Damn Matt Ward... xD

 Evileyes wrote:

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
Ehm... the 2nd is known... you know, Grey Knights... btw, yeah.

If were looking at corny fluff, I still rank it as second, even if GW wrote it...Damn Draigo...Damn Matt Ward... xD

Matt Ward is the Evil, is the Chaos that fight against himself... he's... an Ultrasmurf fanboy! *Psycho soundtrack*

The main fault in your argumentation is the assumption, that Tau and humans share the same basic biology despite being life forms of different planets that developed separately from the start. Who says that Tau have DNA, who says that they use the same molecules? looking similar doesn't mean they are related or even share biochemistry.

Also, the new book is a bit more complicated than "ethereals enslave Tau via pheromones", esp. the pheromone thing is practically gone. Don't trust lexicanum in this either. As an example: Ethereals have more control over Vespids than over the Fire caste. And the Tau Empire is based on diversity and exchange of cultures.

 yeri wrote:
Well trust me, it will be much more interesting and grimdark in long form. even I think the short form is kind of corny, but I've got a story planned out that makes a lot more sense.

Okay, as a writer, don't do this. If something doesn't pass the sniff test on the short term, saying "oh it'll be so much better when I write it out!" is the equivalent of clapping your hands over your ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU." It's lazy writing and trust me, if the initial sum up of the idea does not get people interested, they are simply not going to go for the big version.

This is such a bad habit of writers. Listen to your critics. These people are taking time to show you ways to improve or change the idea, they are not hating on you. If they were, why would they take so much time and thought to give you other ideas. I think you need to crank down your pride a few notches and listen to some of this stuff.