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Which space marine codex represents best the Spartans?

Anything with a low model count, since there isn't a space marine chapter that partakes in pederasty.

Voted DA mainly due to the availability of thunder-hammer storm sheild termies (especially the Knights). Deathwing Knights have the same sorta style of forming a shield wall with heavy armor (special rule that gives them +1T), staying together in formation with little shooting, and smashing the face of anything that gets into CC with them.

Something tells me he might be referring to Halo Spartans...

Not sure if you mean rules or fluff?

Fluff-wise, it is the Minotaurs for sure. Asterion Moloch is lucky he wasn't named "Chapter Master Leonidas".

As far as rules, it is probably still Minotaurs, using the Siege Assault Vanguard list, since they can get shields on almost all of their models.

 ashrog wrote:
Not sure if you mean rules or fluff?

Fluff-wise, it is the Minotaurs for sure. Asterion Moloch is lucky he wasn't named "Chapter Master Leonidas".

As far as rules, it is probably still Minotaurs, using the Siege Assault Vanguard list, since they can get shields on almost all of their models.

I agree with this but I'm not sure he means Sparta Spartans. But Halo Spartans

I wouldn't suggest Space marines at all.

I'd suggest Inqusitional Henchmen, who can be equipped with a variety of equipment and special weapons which can easily represent Spartans. I'd suggest giving them storm Bolters and carapace armour, or whatever equipment you see fit. I'm currently doing a Halo army with the Grey Knights codex using said rules.

"300" Spartans, HALO Spartans, or *actual* Spartans?

"300" Spartans would probably be best just with the basic SM codex, they have most of the Greek/Roman thing going and the Minotaurs FW list coming out has a lot of such imagery. Grey Knights fit best in terms of "ridiculously elite vs megahordes" though.

HALO spartans? 40k doesn't really have a good direct equivalent, you could really use any SM codex for that.

For *actual* Spartans, well, they relied heavily on Helot slaves, with nearly 30 slaves for every Spartan warrior, CSM's with lots of elite units and troops largely of Cultists (to represent Helots) would fit.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

 ashrog wrote:
Not sure if you mean rules or fluff?

Fluff-wise, it is the Minotaurs for sure. Asterion Moloch is lucky he wasn't named "Chapter Master Leonidas".

As far as rules, it is probably still Minotaurs, using the Siege Assault Vanguard list, since they can get shields on almost all of their models.

I agree with this but I'm not sure he means Sparta Spartans. But Halo Spartans

Hmmm, you are probably right. But in that case, it should be spelled SPARTANS, not Spartans!

Honestly... Grey Knights.

I didn't vote, as if you want spartan marines, you should just buy marines, paint them your own color, and then buy spartan looking heads (ie helmets with plumes) from a different company, like off eBay.

I say none, cuz they dont go barechested or wield shields, Go to fantasy!

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Something tells me he might be referring to Halo Spartans...

No I am not referring to Halo Spartans but thanks for your reply.

ashrog wrote:Not sure if you mean rules or fluff?

Fluff-wise, it is the Minotaurs for sure. Asterion Moloch is lucky he wasn't named "Chapter Master Leonidas".

As far as rules, it is probably still Minotaurs, using the Siege Assault Vanguard list, since they can get shields on almost all of their models.

I rather prefer non forge world lists and I think I want them to represent spartans' rules as I will make them my own fluff.

Vaktathi wrote:"300" Spartans, HALO Spartans, or *actual* Spartans?

"300" Spartans would probably be best just with the basic SM codex, they have most of the Greek/Roman thing going and the Minotaurs FW list coming out has a lot of such imagery. Grey Knights fit best in terms of "ridiculously elite vs megahordes" though.

HALO spartans? 40k doesn't really have a good direct equivalent, you could really use any SM codex for that.

For *actual* Spartans, well, they relied heavily on Helot slaves, with nearly 30 slaves for every Spartan warrior, CSM's with lots of elite units and troops largely of Cultists (to represent Helots) would fit.

I think that I like best the "300" Spartans as even though they are not real Spartans I like them more.

juraigamer wrote:Honestly... Grey Knights.

I do not think that I would like Grey knights as they don't have shields.


I have been thinking that I should use blood angels as they have the death company which I hope I could arm with spears and shields. Plus they have jump packs so all foot list is not a problem. I rather prefer them to be close combat troops.

thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

phatonic wrote:
I say none, cuz they dont go barechested or wield shields, Go to fantasy!

Thanks for the idea, but I prefer to stick to 40k.

None of them, Spartans are closer to Storm Troopers or Kasrikin. Maybe Sisters of Battle could be a stand in, but Space Marines proper definitely not.

Minotaurs chapter.
Asterion Moloc reminds me of Spartans everytime I look at him.

Iron Snakes chapters, so vanilla.
They're organized in 10-men squad rather than battle companies, they use shield and lance, they're more assoult than fire.
They or the Minotaurs.
Your choise.

 Grey Templar wrote:
None of them, Spartans are closer to Storm Troopers or Kasrikin. Maybe Sisters of Battle could be a stand in, but Space Marines proper definitely not.

Yes but I would like to have close combat orientated troops.

But remember too that I am here to ask too which non forge world codex should I use.

Khartas wrote:

I have been thinking that I should use blood angels as they have the death company which I hope I could arm with spears and shields. Plus they have jump packs so all foot list is not a problem. I rather prefer them to be close combat troops.

thoughts?

It IS possible to give Death Company Power Lances/Spears(in fact, you could give every member one if you wanted), but not shields.

You could, of course, model them having shields and say that it's what grants their FNP since they're not actually Death Company but Chapter X's Assault Phalanx squad or something.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Khartas wrote:

I have been thinking that I should use blood angels as they have the death company which I hope I could arm with spears and shields. Plus they have jump packs so all foot list is not a problem. I rather prefer them to be close combat troops.

thoughts?

It IS possible to give Death Company Power Lances/Spears(in fact, you could give every member one if you wanted), but not shields.

You could, of course, model them having shields and say that it's what grants their FNP since they're not actually Death Company but Chapter X's Assault Phalanx squad or something.

What do you think then how should I arm them? Maybe power sword and spear?

Scibor makes great spartan bits....any chapter will do, just use those helms and bits

I voted vanilla marines. Here's how I'd run it:

Counts-as Pedro Kantor, so the whole army is Stubborn (very 300 in my opinion).

Sternguard with melta/flamer combis in one hand, combat blades/swords in the other, and plumed helmet crests.

Terminators with TH/SS.

Lots of 10 man scout squads as your Troop choices. Spear as their cc weapon and combat shield with bolt pistol in their other hand (just say the shield is part of their 4+ save).

Vanguard (or assault marines) with helmet crests, power lances (or just spears as cc weapons), and the same combat shield/pistol trick, just make sure your opponent knows they don't actually have shields.

Throw in a Stormtalon, vindicator and a few thunderfires and you're good to go.

Halo Spartans?

Imperial Guard.

IG as UNSC marines, vets as ODST's, Vendetta's as Pelicans, and Sly Marbo as Master Chief.

Tau

BrotherVord wrote:
Scibor makes great spartan bits....any chapter will do, just use those helms and bits

Seriously good suggestion by Vord here. Behold:



My immediate thought on rules was Space Wolves.

Reason - their Counter-Attack special rule reminds me of the 300.

Generic Space Marines use Combat Tactics to deliberately retreat (a good tactic).

But a Spartan never retreats, a Spartan never surrenders (as per 300).

So I felt a gunline of Counter-Attacking Space Wolves really fit well.

Then, their special characters like Arjac Rockfist felt pretty 300.

That said, I liked the Pedro Kantor idea, that works well, too.

Their excessive dedication to war, the god of war & the mightiest warrior ever (achilies) id say Khorne. There's also their excessively cruel & evil treatment of all around them. They were also an extremely elite military. So go with decked out Berserkers of Khorne.

the Spartans weren't cruel AFAIK. They were harsh certainly, but they did have a strong sense of martial honor and pride.

They looked down on the Athenians for their different customs, but it was almost the way an adult may look down at the behavior of a child. it wasn't hatred or cruelty, just a sense of superiority. Which was hardly uncommon or out of place back then.

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:I voted vanilla marines. Here's how I'd run it:

Counts-as Pedro Kantor, so the whole army is Stubborn (very 300 in my opinion).

Sternguard with melta/flamer combis in one hand, combat blades/swords in the other, and plumed helmet crests.

Terminators with TH/SS.

Lots of 10 man scout squads as your Troop choices. Spear as their cc weapon and combat shield with bolt pistol in their other hand (just say the shield is part of their 4+ save).

Vanguard (or assault marines) with helmet crests, power lances (or just spears as cc weapons), and the same combat shield/pistol trick, just make sure your opponent knows they don't actually have shields.

Throw in a Stormtalon, vindicator and a few thunderfires and you're good to go.

Kommissar Waaaghrick wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:
Scibor makes great spartan bits....any chapter will do, just use those helms and bits

Seriously good suggestion by Vord here. Behold:



My immediate thought on rules was Space Wolves.

Reason - their Counter-Attack special rule reminds me of the 300.

Generic Space Marines use Combat Tactics to deliberately retreat (a good tactic).

But a Spartan never retreats, a Spartan never surrenders (as per 300).

So I felt a gunline of Counter-Attacking Space Wolves really fit well.

Then, their special characters like Arjac Rockfist felt pretty 300.

That said, I liked the Pedro Kantor idea, that works well, too.

Good points, but my problem with both codexies is that I would probably need to use rhinos and I prefer a foot list. And I think that neither of those codexies is enough close combat orientated. I had a thought that maybe I should use codex blood angels as they have jump packs so no need for rhinos. Plus they have death company which can be armed with power weapons and what I have heard that they are quite destructive in close combat. What do you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS The scibor spartans look quite good but they seem to be expensive.

Khartas wrote:
Good points, but my problem with both codexies is that I would probably need to use rhinos and I prefer a foot list. And I think that neither of those codexies is enough close combat orientated. I had a thought that maybe I should use codex blood angels as they have jump packs so no need for rhinos. Plus they have death company which can be armed with power weapons and what I have heard that they are quite destructive in close combat. What do you think?

I hear you. Reason - I considered the very same issue for my upcoming army.

Only recently, about a month ago, did a friend convince me to return to The Hobby.

He did so with a pure footslogging Marine force. No Rhinos, no Drop Pods.

It was inspirational. It turns out 6th edition made Rhinos an option rather than a necessity.

My feeling was this - wars should be won with men (perhaps supermen), not metal boxes.

I considered many options, and for Marines, it came down to Blood Angels vs. Space Wolves.

--- Blood Angels ---

A pure Blood Angel force was very attractive. Everyone in Jump Packs, flying in.

Then I started to put a Blood Angels list together...and the points cost was too ineffective.

What I found was to make it effective, you starting adding things like Sanguinary Priests, etc.

Moreover, initiating Assault was less effective than before, with the 6th edition Overwatch rules.

Then I found a lot of dedicated Blood Angels players they shelved the armies for 6th edition.

I hope to do a Blood Angel force 1 day (in my case, Flesh Tearers). But not for 6th edition.

--- Space Wolves ---

So I started looking at Space Wolves, considered by many to be among the best point-for-point Troops.

After further research, I agreed. IMHO, for a pure footslogger army, Space Wolves'd be it.

Their approach to close combat is different. Instead of charging, they're like, "Come at me."

For a pure "hold the line" approach, without basically no support, their basic Grey Hunters are a best buy.

Now, I understand you want more Close Combat options. No problem, as they have many options.

Close combat special characters, options to put a Terminator in each squad, Mark of the Wulfen...

...they got it all.

--- 300 Spartans ---

I actually own the original 300 comics. I was re-reading them. And here's the thing about their Spartans:

They actually didn't charge much. They held the line at the Hot Gates. And they PUSHED back.

And that's what Space Wolves do. They get charged, they hold the line, and push back hard.

So this Space Wolves idea...I think it actually works for you and your theme even better than it does me.

Khartas wrote:
PS The scibor spartans look quite good but they seem to be expensive.

True, probably reserve them for your special characters, or just buy the helmets for your Wolf Guard leaders and characters.

My 2500pt "This is Sparta!" list, for 'Hard Boyz and few years back:

HQ: Logan Grimnar

HQ: Njal Stormcaller w/ Runic TDA

Wolf Guard Pack (10-man) w/ Arjac, 9x TDA, 9x Storm Shields, 8x Melta Bombs, 2x Cyclones, 1x Thunder Hammer

Wolf Guard Pack (10-man) w/ 10x TDA, 10x Storm Shields, 8x Melta Bombs, 2x Cyclones, 2x Thunder Hammers

Wolf Guard Pack (10-man) w/ 10x TDA, 10x Storm Shields, 8x Melta Bombs, 2x Cyclones, 2x Thunder Hammers

32 models build from BA Sanguinary Guard with round shields from WHFB (with Lamdas on the shileds) and capes instead of wings, all mounted on 40mm bases. The Cyclones were modeled Chaos Havoc missile launchers. Arjac's hammer was a spiked ball and chain (ie, an Olympic styled "Hammer-Toss" hammer), while his shiled was made from a bowed piece of square cut plastic card. Njal I green-stuffed am eyepatch, while Logan got a "Leonides" cut over his helmet's eye.

However, my painting skills at the time were pretty bad, and the army did poorly at 'Hard Boyz, so I never bother to take pictures. Maybe one day I'll revisit them with a better paint job and take some pics.

SJ

 Kommissar Waaaghrick wrote:
[

But a Spartan never retreats, a Spartan never surrenders (as per 300).

The ironic thing is that according to Herodotus the spartans actually did feign retreats to disrutp the persian line the slaughter their troops as they broke formation. He specifcally mentions them doing this at thermopylae

Any of the marines codexs could be used really, if you're going to write your own fluff especially then just pick the one with the most spartan units