Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi!
I've played 40k for a year or so now, and being totally new to WHFB I have a few questions before i get into it.

1. How similar are the rules? Is it like learning a totally different game?

2. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the high elves?

3. I think i want to go for high elves, would it be a good start to buy a cuple 'island of blood' sets?

3.1 Considering the new high elves codex comes out soon and will the units in the package still be of interest to most?

3.2 If it is a good starting package, what would be the best units/ to accompany these units?

4. Painting wise are WHFB models smaller and harder to paint with an airbrush?

5. Are the high elves competitive with the current army list and are there any theories on how and what will change in the new one?

I would appreciate if you could answer any of these questions, I'm sure it will be useful to anyone considering to start high elves.
Thanks!

1. How similar are the rules? Is it like learning a totally different game?

Nope, basic mechanics are more or less the same. The movement phase is slightly different though.

2. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the high elves?

Strengths = Very strong in magic and early phases of close combat. Shooting not too bad either.
Weaknesses = You can grind them down

3. I think i want to go for high elves, would it be a good start to buy a cuple 'island of blood' sets?

Check ebay and pick up the IoB minis you actually want, but yes, Lothern Sea Guard are good unit to start with

3.1 Considering the new high elves codex comes out soon and will the units in the package still be of interest to most?

We'll have to wait and see.

3.2 If it is a good starting package, what would be the best units/ to accompany these units?

See above.

4. Painting wise are WHFB models smaller and harder to paint with an airbrush?

Pretty much the same, though there are less helmets and more faces on Fantasy miniatures

5. Are the high elves competitive with the current army list and are there any theories on how and what will change in the new one?

They're currently considered mid tier by most unless you take Teclis who makes them unbeatable. New book may change that, but most of the books since 8th have aimed for greater balance

WFB models are smaller, if only because the standard is a human not a human inside power armour, but that really depends on the army. Ogres are rather bigger than Orks, after all. But I'd say that High Elves are ever so slightly below Guardians and Cadians in size.

The games are pretty similar, but there is an entirely new phase (magic), and lots of the little rules are different (e.g. modifiers to shooting and armour, movement). It isn't that hard to pick up - the game is designed to be easy to start with.

Replies in Red.

killerpenguin wrote:
Hi!
I've played 40k for a year or so now, and being totally new to WHFB I have a few questions before i get into it.

1. How similar are the rules? Is it like learning a totally different game?
The Basic Mechanics are the same. Everything has a similar profile and the whole move, shoot, fight part is the same. However, there's a lot of rules regarding ranks, reforms, different unit types and magic that you'll have to learn. You'll pick it up quicker than someone who hasn't played 40k before though

2. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the high elves?
The HE have excellent Magic users as well as very elite units that are almost always more skilled than their counterparts. However, being T3 and generally having poor saves, HE are very flimsy and they're almost always outnumbered.

3. I think i want to go for high elves, would it be a good start to buy a cuple 'island of blood' sets?

3.1 Considering the new high elves codex comes out soon and will the units in the package still be of interest to most?

3.2 If it is a good starting package, what would be the best units/ to accompany these units?
ARMY BOOK. It is not a codex!! But yeah, it's quite hard to answer these questions at the moment. I could answer well for the current setup, but most of my answers could become complete wrong in a matter of weeks. The IoB set is a good purchase almost purely for the rulebook, but many of the units could become obsolete. I'd just wait a few weeks and see what happens.

4. Painting wise are WHFB models smaller and harder to paint with an airbrush?
There's not much difference in my opinion, but I've never really used an airbrush. You have to get them to rank up as a unit though, which is different, but this is rarely a problem with HE since they're so regimented and orderly.

5. Are the high elves competitive with the current army list and are there any theories on how and what will change in the new one?
Again, this question is quite hard to answer. At the moment they're mid-tier, but one of the higher ones in said tier in my opinion. As for changes, I'm not sure how it will effect the army as a whole. I could also reel off some rumoured changes but, as you don't know the rules, it would probably all mean nothing to you.

Hope this helps

Thanks guys! This helps a lot! I was eager to throw myself over a cuple ile of blood sets, but i guess i should wait.

Basically the statline is the same with the addition of a Movement characteristic.

Ballistic Skill is the same, although there are shooting modifiers that will change when you need to hit. For example a BS4 elf needs 3s to hit normally. But if he's taking a shot at long range and against a target in Hard Cover he'll need 6s to hit. This mechanic can make BS based shooting pretty weak overall.

Ruleswise its not going to be hard to learn, except the movement phase. Movement is very precise and deliberate, and also the most important phase.


High Elves are the faction that uses, and needs, magic buffs to be competitive. Their Special choices are also very good, Swordmasters and White Lions are amazing. But their Core units are pretty lackluster. Massed Str3, even with rerolls to hit isn't all that scary.

They also have the most overpowered and broken special character in the game. Teclis. Partly tied to magic being powerful, but Teclis is OTT even for a fairly average army book.

The magic item Book of Hoeth is also a broken item.

 Grey Templar wrote:


Ruleswise its not going to be hard to learn, except the movement phase. Movement is very precise and deliberate, and also the most important phase.

This. A thousand times this.

Nobody's pointed it out yet, but unlike 40k strength affects your armour save rather than having an AP value that either does nothing or negates the armour completely.

Indeed, a 3+ armor sounds nice, till you get smacked by a str6 attack and you only have a 6+ armor save actually. Of course this is balanced by being able to take armor and ward/regen saves against the same wound.

MarsNZ wrote:
Nobody's pointed it out yet, but unlike 40k strength affects your armour save rather than having an AP value that either does nothing or negates the armour completely.

There's tons of other, relatively minor, differences like this between the two games, for example, the fact that CR is affected by other things besides casualties. It'd take ages to explain them all!

warhammer is a more complex version of warhammer 40k.

High elves are expensive (points wise) and are limited in armour and toughness, this they make up for with magic. I'd not call high elves a good beginners army but on the other hand I started with them so...

Wait one more week and you can find out for real what they're like when the new books comes out!

 John Rainbow wrote:
Wait one more week and you can find out for real what they're like when the new books comes out!

I wouldn't know the difference between up and down on the new codex. Not having played WHFB before..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
come to think of it, that might be a Norwegian expression, but you understand

killerpenguin wrote:

 John Rainbow wrote:
Wait one more week and you can find out for real what they're like when the new books comes out!

I wouldn't know the difference between up and down on the new codex. Not having played WHFB before..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
come to think of it, that might be a Norwegian expression, but you understand

I get what you mean and you have a good point. I almost dare not say it, but, worst come to worst, if the book is really bad, then you won't be as disappointed.

But worry not, what I've seen so far looks really promising!

 The Shadow wrote:

killerpenguin wrote:

 John Rainbow wrote:
Wait one more week and you can find out for real what they're like when the new books comes out!

I wouldn't know the difference between up and down on the new codex. Not having played WHFB before..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
come to think of it, that might be a Norwegian expression, but you understand

I get what you mean and you have a good point. I almost dare not say it, but, worst come to worst, if the book is really bad, then you won't be as disappointed.

But worry not, what I've seen so far looks really promising!

All i can predict it will be cheese, Matt ward wrote it.

phatonic wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

killerpenguin wrote:

 John Rainbow wrote:
Wait one more week and you can find out for real what they're like when the new books comes out!

I wouldn't know the difference between up and down on the new codex. Not having played WHFB before..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
come to think of it, that might be a Norwegian expression, but you understand

I get what you mean and you have a good point. I almost dare not say it, but, worst come to worst, if the book is really bad, then you won't be as disappointed.

But worry not, what I've seen so far looks really promising!

All i can predict it will be cheese, Matt ward wrote it.

Well, you never know... But even so, I'd prefer it to be cheese than to be useless. You can de-cheese an army yourself, but you can't make it better.

I've always looked at movement in fantasy as being more about countering your opponent's moves to get the right charges/match ups where as in 40k its more about moving your troops through cover to grab the objective. Its also important to have your units support eachother. (infantry charge head on while cav/chariots/monsters/heavy hitters compliment with a side flank charge) From the few games I have played against High Elves I can say beng on the receiving end of their magic phase is nothing but brutal. They usually strike first in CC and have great leadership but the ol' elven T3 means they can be squished pretty easily.

I hear that the new Teclis can do a "craft your own lore" thing letting you choose spells from any of the 8 lores. Its a fun idea I guess but there must be more to this Lore of Cheese.

Opeth30 wrote:
I've always looked at movement in fantasy as being more about countering your opponent's moves to get the right charges/match ups where as in 40k its more about moving your troops through cover to grab the objective. Its also important to have your units support eachother. (infantry charge head on while cav/chariots/monsters/heavy hitters compliment with a side flank charge) From the few games I have played against High Elves I can say beng on the receiving end of their magic phase is nothing but brutal. They usually strike first in CC and have great leadership but the ol' elven T3 means they can be squished pretty easily.

I hear that the new Teclis can do a "craft your own lore" thing letting you choose spells from any of the 8 lores. Its a fun idea I guess but there must be more to this Lore of Cheese.

We're unsure of the wording of the rule yet. It might be one of those things that will crop up in YMDC as soon as it comes out - or get FAQ'd promptly. Basically, like you say, he may be able to choose one spell from each lore, or he might get to roll once for each Lore. The former would be pretty powerful, the latter would not.

I think IoB is a good purchase still, LSG have improved slightly as they are a point cheaper and get a free reform after getting charged if accompanied by the new sea helm hero this will allow them to make better use of their dual bow/spear nature. Reavers are now core which is good as they are good fast Cav. Mages are always useful but the prince on griff is an anomaly still as we don't know the pricing on character mounts yet but it prob wont be stellar. Sword masters will always have their uses.

If you're particularly good with Green Stuff (or your group don't mind half-believable proxies) you could always use the Griffon as a Pheonix.

 The Shadow wrote:
If you're particularly good with Green Stuff (or your group don't mind half-believable proxies) you could always use the Griffon as a Pheonix.

Just paint it red, tadaa.

Here you can find a fair number of new rules

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2013/04/huge-high-elves-info-dump.html#more

Hard to tell but I would say that the HE book will be very competitive. They have one item that is a hard counter to an entire army (Demons) and I see a lot of really good army rules but none that are disadvantageous. Whether they are really good or too good will depend on point cost of units.

JWhex wrote:
Here you can find a fair number of new rules

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2013/04/huge-high-elves-info-dump.html#more

Hard to tell but I would say that the HE book will be very competitive. They have one item that is a hard counter to an entire army (Demons) and I see a lot of really good army rules but none that are disadvantageous. Whether they are really good or too good will depend on point cost of units.

From what i can see so far, the new codices of 40k(CSM - Tau) seem very balanced. Is it the same way In the newer fantasy hardback codices? I guess there Are always certain units to keep away from, but i can't go totally wrong buying two ile of blood sets can I?

JWhex wrote:
Here you can find a fair number of new rules

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2013/04/huge-high-elves-info-dump.html#more

Hard to tell but I would say that the HE book will be very competitive. They have one item that is a hard counter to an entire army (Demons) and I see a lot of really good army rules but none that are disadvantageous. Whether they are really good or too good will depend on point cost of units.

Hmmm, I'm quite liking the Sisters of Avelorn's bows. S4 is always good, and AP against FoD is pretty awesome too. If they're not too expensive and if the Shadow Warriors aren't that awesome I may include a unit.

Teclis looks decent. He got appropriately nerfed.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Teclis looks decent. He got appropriately nerfed.

And is still usable, so that's all good

He gets his statline cut in half if he uses his Staff