The Euro Is Ripping Europe Apart

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**whembly**

Say wut?

To my European brothers and sisters... is this really a concern, or is this normal?

Greece is dredging up some ugly memories in Europe with a new push for German war reparations from World War II.

Two weeks ago, a “top-secret” report from the Greek Finance Ministry was leaked that claimed that Germany still owes Greece €162 billion in reparations. The report made waves, but it wasn’t clear whether the Greek government was serious about pressing ahead with the claims or was planning on burying them in the interest of smoothing over its relations with Germany.

Under pressure from the anti-bailout parties, the ruling coalition has finally decided that it will, in fact, be asking Germany for the money. Germany has made it clear that its debt to Greece has long since been paid, and it considers the issue to be closed.

This is bad news for Europe. It will make it harder for German politicians to support bailouts and additional relief for Greece, and it will further embitter discussions in European institutions. (Oh, and we doubt Greece will be seeing any reparations from Germany anytime soon.)

The monetary union and the European project as a whole were supposed to help the continent pull together and put its troubled past behind it. Instead, its failures of design are kindling old grudges from a war that ended nearly 70 years ago and tearing the union apart.

**Ratbarf**

I'm pretty sure no one actually take Greek Government accounting seriously anymore.

**Mr. Burning**

The 'Greek Finance Ministry' is just the title of a new Greek kebab shop.

You get horrible food and moaning about how things are compared to years ago,

**kronk**

Didn't the head of the "Greek Finance Ministry" go to the same PR School as Iraqi information Minister?

**ExNoctemNacimur**

kronk wrote:
Didn't the head of the "Greek Finance Ministry" go to the same PR School as Iraqi information Minister?

And Ahmedinejad and Kim Jong-Un, can't forget those hallowed alumni

**Kilkrazy**

It doesn't sound like a BBC report.

**whembly**

Kilkrazy wrote:
It doesn't sound like a BBC report.

? What do you mean?

Isn't BBC supposed to be more "accurate" than Rueters?

**purplefood**

Is it from the BBC?

**djones520**

Did you have a link for the original articel Whembly?

**whembly**

djones520 wrote:
Did you have a link for the original articel Whembly?

Sorry guys... honestly forgot... Edited the OP and here's the linky.
Here's Rueters too:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/24/us-greece-germany-war-idUSBRE93N0IV20130424

**Dreadclaw69**

I don't know if its the Euro causing the problems, or Greece. They seem to be getting very nationalistic and the rise of Golden Dawn isn't likely to help matters.

**Kilkrazy**

Well Reuters is pretty reliable.

At some point the Germans are going to be pushed too far, and they will take their ball (in other words, all the money) and go home.

Then the Greeks will have to spend the next 25 years eating tree bark.

**whembly**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I don't know if its the Euro causing the problems, or Greece. They seem to be getting very nationalistic and the rise of Golden Dawn isn't likely to help matters.

I have to find the article... I think it was Reuters... but, they claim that there's this weird dichotomy in Europe that places like Germany and UK it's really expensive to live, but the median income is lower. Compared to Europeans that's not doing well (ie, Greek/Cyprus/Spain/Italy) that the median incomes are HIGHER and that standard of living is lower (or more subsidized).

If true, that's ass'ed backwards to what we have here in the states...

**purplefood**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I don't know if its the Euro causing the problems, or Greece. They seem to be getting very nationalistic and the rise of Golden Dawn isn't likely to help matters.

I do know Greece isn't particularly fond of Germany...

**Dreadclaw69**

purplefood wrote:
I do know Greece isn't particularly fond of Germany...

True as that may be, it looks like the Greek government is trying to distract the citizens from the problems at home with this

**purplefood**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
purplefood wrote:
I do know Greece isn't particularly fond of Germany...

True as that may be, it looks like the Greek government is trying to distract the citizens from the problems at home with this

Even that might be difficult considering their problems...
That said dredging up the War does tend to work in Europe...

**whembly**

purplefood wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
purplefood wrote:
I do know Greece isn't particularly fond of Germany...

True as that may be, it looks like the Greek government is trying to distract the citizens from the problems at home with this

Even that might be difficult considering their problems...
That said dredging up the War does tend to work in Europe...

Really? It still does?

I'm just a red-neck 'Murrican (apparently...), so I wouldn't know.

**Kilkrazy**

The euro has caused problems in Greece and elsewhere because the financial muscle of Germany made the exchange rate artificially low for nations like Greece and Spain. This made borrowing easier than it should have been and led to property and building bubbles, etc.

Greece's public finance problems are greatly increased by the traditionally lax attitude to paying tax coupled with quite generous social provisions such as university tuition and early retirement ages.

**whembly**

Kilkrazy wrote:
The euro has caused problems in Greece and elsewhere because the financial muscle of Germany made the exchange rate artificially low for nations like Greece and Spain. This made borrowing easier than it should have been and led to property and building bubbles, etc.

Greece's public finance problems are greatly increased by the traditionally lax attitude to paying tax coupled with quite generous social provisions such as university tuition and early retirement ages.

Isn't that systemic in the Eurozone as well?

Also: Do you really live in japan?

**Kilkrazy**

I used to move to and fro and it was too much trouble to get Legoburner to change the flag.

As for systemic tax avoidance and generous social provision, it isn't a problem in a lot of European countries that have a healthy economy and low rates of tax avoidance.

**Grey Templar**

So it really was just a mistake to let the more economically unstable countries join the EU.

**Grundz**

In the past its always been a good idea to pick a fight with Germany when they are the only country in the continent not in financial ruin.

**Sigvatr**

The entire problem of the EU is that it's Germany, France, UK,Scandinavia and then the rest. Those countries are a long shot ahead of the others in regards to their economy. It's those countries pulling the others behind them.

...and seriously, Greece can go wherever they want.

**uk_crow**

The Euro was doomed from the start, it makes no sense to have a single currency for a multitude of nations that have totally different countries. How can the northern industrialised nations like France, Germany etc use the same monetary policy as nations like Greece and Spain? Countries like Greece and Spain should never have been allowed to join in the first place. Their careless spending in the 'booming years' were their own downfall. Also i can't see the Germans taking the Greeks very seriously with their war reparations threats as they along with France and the UK provide are the largest net contributors to the EU budget and so are the ones calling the shots. The Germans are the ones being made out to be be the bad ones in this, which is the most disappointing fact.

**hotsauceman1**

topical

Spoiler:

**Kilkrazy**

Grey Templar wrote:
So it really was just a mistake to let the more economically unstable countries join the EU.

A lot of people said that at the time. It is an example of how political drive overrode economic good sense.

Of course it didn't help that when a couple of countries like France broke the rules on their deficit, they were not punished as should have been done. That merely set a bad example for the countries with real problems.

**Da Boss**

Unfortunately, the economic project of the European Union was melded with a poltical movement for peace in europe. Some nobility there, but it has proven short sighted.

But this is really a non story. Just political rabble rousing from the Greeks. If they go, no one will particularly miss them. The only problem is contagion.

**Dreadclaw69**

Da Boss wrote:
But this is really a non story. Just political rabble rousing from the Greeks. If they go, no one will particularly miss them. The only problem is contagion.

Maybe that's their end game, leave the Euro and hope that their complaints dating back to WW2 offset the cash they've gotten to bail them out

**Frazzled**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
purplefood wrote:
I do know Greece isn't particularly fond of Germany...

True as that may be, it looks like the Greek government is trying to distract the citizens from the problems at home with this

Greece should immediately declare war on Germany and launch their secret weapon, the gyro bomb.
OPA!

**Da Boss**

Well, if it weren't for the fact that even asking for reparations at this stage makes them look like petulant children, yeah