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I am making my first IG army but I don't know what kind of tank to use. My question is what tank should I use for any situation?

Leman Russ Demolisher. Good against pretty much any target type besides flyers, and fairly cheap. If you aren't sure what the rest of your army is going to be it's probably the safest purchase to make.

It really does determine what kind of army you're going for. Each tank can perform a valid, cool rule.

Are you going to be a tactical genius with CREEEEEEEEEED!?

Are you going infantry with artillery and possibly helhound/devildog support?

Are you bringing Punish Russ' with Knight Commander Pask and a Space Wolves rune priest to give the his tank squadron prescience pumping out all the S5 shots in the world?

IG has an infinite amount of options, but I do enjoy the artillery tanks, the devildog (primarily due to the 6E change on blasts, and the Executioner Russ with 5x Plasma blasts (potentially?)

The answer is going to be different depending on what you want them to do. Do you magnetize models? Magnetizing the turret of a Russ is difficult, but doable. Do be warned, though, that the two kits (Battle/Exterminator/Vanquisher/Eradicator, Demolisher/Executioner/Punisher) use a different internal assembly, so a completely universal turret is going to be a serious pain to assemble. You can also get extra turrets off bitz sites, or Forge World (their turret replacements aren't that bad by their price standards, and they look pretty awesome).

I think the best bet is to try them out before finalizing the build. Build the chassis but leave the turret unassembled until you've tried out several variants. The Executioner and Demolisher are probably the two best variants in the current meta.

I am also quite fond of Hellhounds, but if you want to run Vendettas you won't have the Fast Attack slots for them. Hellhounds can cover large amounts of ground and cause utterly godawful numbers of wounds, particularly to armies with 4+ or worse saves.

The best bang for your buck, is probably the standard leman russ. It is a steal at 150 points for the battle cannon, and armor 14.

Its a workhorse, and a bad bitch altogether.

If you feel you need a different gap filled, is when the other Leman russes start to play a more important roll. Horde? Anti Tank? Killin' termies? Killin' marines? Killin' sneaky eldars? Lighting up hordes? Killin' big ol' critters? You can kit out one of those 9 tanks to do anything, but the stop gap that can do a little of everything at a great range is the standard leman russ.

 ADustyMan wrote:
The best bang for your buck, is probably the standard leman russ. It is a steal at 150 points for the battle cannon, and armor 14.

Its a workhorse, and a bad bitch altogether.

Except the battle-cannon isn't all that good, nor is it worth 150 points.

 ADustyMan wrote:
The best bang for your buck, is probably the standard leman russ. It is a steal at 150 points for the battle cannon, and armor 14.

Its a workhorse, and a bad bitch altogether.

If you feel you need a different gap filled, is when the other Leman russes start to play a more important roll. Horde? Anti Tank? Killin' termies? Killin' marines? Killin' sneaky eldars? Lighting up hordes? Killin' big ol' critters? You can kit out one of those 9 tanks to do anything, but the stop gap that can do a little of everything at a great range is the standard leman russ.

The only ordinance gun worth taking on a Leman Russ is a demolisher cannon. The Battle cannon just doesn't cut it following the loss of Lumbering Behemoth.

Yeah, the best thing, by far, is to make the weapons swappable. The hull and turret weapons are already great for this, what just fitting in their respecitve slots and just not getting glued down. The turrets are doable with some pretty light conversion work.

If you could only take one tank though, and it had to be able to do anything, I'd probably go for an exterminator with hull lascannons and sponson multimeltas. The main gun has decent range, and doesn't force the hull weapons to snap fire. It's got volume of decent strength shots to handle medium vehicles, fliers, and monstrous creatures. It's also got a bit of S8+ Ap2- weapons to be able to do some damage to terminators (especially paladins).

Really, it does basically nothing poorly, and you're pretty much guaranteed to do some kind of damage, no matter what you're up against.

If you have more points to throw around, you take this tank and upgrade it to a punisher, and if you're not facing against hordes really ever, then upgrading the turret to a vanquisher cannon isn't bad either.

There are other tanks that do things just fine, but they can't be nearly so ubiquitously plugged into a guard list.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Except the battle-cannon isn't all that good, nor is it worth 150 points.

IMO it can be, but it's a specialist marine killer and you have to know why you're taking it before you include one. It's certainly not a good general-purpose unit that you should buy as your first vehicle.

 Ailaros wrote:
If you could only take one tank though, and it had to be able to do anything, I'd probably go for an exterminator with hull lascannons and sponson multimeltas.

This is really bad advice. It costs almost 200 points, and the random mix of weapons means it isn't very good at killing any individual target types. Usually either the sponson/hull guns or turret will be wasted, and you don't want that kind of waste on a 200 point vehicle.

I remember a nine LRD charge. It sucked in control point games, but in a kill point game I saw it in, it pretty much obliterated everything that got in it's way.

Punisher with Heavy Bolters is a good all rounder. It has volume of fire to deal with most infantry, and can glance AV10 and 11 to death.

I probably wouldn't go with the Demolisher. Unless your opponent deep-strikes non-stormshield terminators next to it, it's unlikely to get its points back. The scatter is just too inacturate, and spacing by your opponent means even a perfect hit will usually get you only 3 wounds, and cover will probaly save one or two of them.

The Executioner is *definitely* worth taking if you're facing MEQ. At 1500 points I'd take two executioners and a punisher with Pask and Heavy Bolters. Every single one of those tanks can reliably inflict heavy damage on all enemy infantry and light vehicles, and being AV14 are very survivable and will probably get 2 or 3 turns of shooting in before the enemy can close in with melta/power fists. You don't need to worry about lascannons too much - a BS4 lascannon has a 3% chance of blowing up a russ outright.

BryllCream wrote: Every single one of those tanks can reliably inflict heavy damage on all enemy infantry and light vehicles,

That's the thing, though, that's made me reluctant about executioners. They can't target fliers, and the main gun can't handle heavier armor, and something just feels a little strange about taking an executioner with multimeltas instead of plasma cannons...

Can someone summarize how "Lumbering Behemoth" was changed? I get the question a lot at the local store with newer players, and I feel I always give terrible advice since I do not play IG.

 TheKbob wrote:
Can someone summarize how "Lumbering Behemoth" was changed? I get the question a lot at the local store with newer players, and I feel I always give terrible advice since I do not play IG.

Sure I'll field that.

It's gone.

The FAQ removed it I believe.

Griddlelol wrote:Sure I'll field that.

It's gone.

lol.

Yeah, they're now just "heavy" vehicles. Ordnance causes snap fires, but you can now fire every non-ordnance weapon while on the move.

 Ailaros wrote:

Griddlelol wrote:Sure I'll field that.

It's gone.

lol.

Yeah, they're now just "heavy" vehicles. Ordnance causes snap fires, but you can now fire every non-ordnance weapon while on the move.

Good to know, thanks guys. I just read the FAQ. Sorry I even asked!

 Peregrine wrote:
Leman Russ Demolisher. Good against pretty much any target type besides flyers, and fairly cheap. If you aren't sure what the rest of your army is going to be it's probably the safest purchase to make.

Demolishers are great. I run two and they work great in pairs.

Depending on your local meta, the Eradicator might not be a bad choice. Most of the people here moved from 3+ to 4+ saves, and while I have no experience with one, the local IG players swear by it.

I think the best answer is: What are you fighting/trying to do with the LRBT? Try fielding each one as you see fit (magnetizing works great here) and see what sort of turnout you get. There are variants that people claim to be the best, or the most well-rounded, but in the end it's something you have to discover for yourself.

Truthfully the only variant I've run that has sucked 10/10 times was the Demolisher. It's a giant target, made moreso by that insane cannon, and your enemy is afraid of it so it gets a fair amount of attention. I tend to run cheaper loadouts so I'm not so depressed when I lose two or three, but I'm sure there'll be a post telling me that I suck at IG and the Demolisher is better than any tank ever made.

 Ailaros wrote:

BryllCream wrote: Every single one of those tanks can reliably inflict heavy damage on all enemy infantry and light vehicles,

That's the thing, though, that's made me reluctant about executioners. They can't target fliers, and the main gun can't handle heavier armor, and something just feels a little strange about taking an executioner with multimeltas instead of plasma cannons...

squandering two of those russes and grabbing a couple of hydras will take care of flyers. Even if they struggle to shoot down av12, they will dominate the opposing players attention. Two hydrants and a master of the fleet is all that I usually need to see off flyers.

As has been said, depends heavily on your meta.

My solution is I simply have one of almost every loadout possible.

In my experience (Local meta is low on marines, high on vehicles, lots of xenos and Guard) the Pask Punisher is a wrecking ball that everyone seems to underestimate. It only has St 5 weapons, but boy does it get to shoot lots. With Pask, it becomes a decent situational Anti-tank vehicles (29 effective St 6 shots will wreck anything lighter than a Predator consistently), and it can do nasty things to MCs, especially deep strikers. That trygon you've dropped in front of me? Eat 10+ wounds, see how many you save.

For more dedicated anti-tank, the Forgeworld vanquisher rules with the co-axial heavy stubber, allowing you to re-roll a miss within 36'' makes it a viable tank, if you're in a no-FW area, or don't have the turret, don't really bother with it. It needs Pask to function anywhere near effectively, and even then, it's a dubious investment of 230 points. The alternative is Ailaros's recommendation of the Exterminator with LC/MM, it's still pricey, but has a much higher chance to actually kill vehicles at medium-close ranges. The Autocannons can't hurt the heavier targets, but nothing, not even Titans like eating 2 multi-meltas if you can get in close (and AV14 gives you some flexibility at closing with the enemy). It also provides a stopgap against Terminator-equivalents with high strength Ap2 and 1 weapons.

These three are my first choices, but other tanks have some utility to, but is more dependent on other variables; the above will almost always have some use.

The Demolisher is also loads of fun, but it's effectiveness depends heavily on keeping it out of combat until it can shoot at something; it's a giant target most players will do their utmost to murder, though the concerns about spacing people bring up I have not often encountered outside of full terminator armies like GK, DA or some Ork armies with loads of Meganobz. Even so, forcing the enemy to spread out creates other vulnerabilities you can exploit, so don't discount this tank.

The Executioner, while one of my favourite tanks in the fluff, isn't terrible exciting on the table. Even if a terminator unit is packed right beside one another, base to base, which doesn't happen that often, it'll only get a few wounds per blast. With even minimal spacing of the units it is designed to kill, even 1 inch, which is fairly common compared to the 3'' optimal the internet bangs on about, will result in you getting maybe 2 guys a blast, and with Guard BS, scattering is almost assured. As such, this tank has rarely made its points back with me, but being one of the only non-gets hot plasma guns in the game, it still has a place in my army. It also looks cool, so rule of cool over actual battlefield performance for me.

The Eradicator is hugely dependent on your local meta; if you face marine spam around every corner, this tank has zero purpose. If you're in a more balanced environment, it starts to become more useful. For me, facing Chaos, Orks, Tau, Eldar, Guard and Tyranids on a regular basis, this thing is pretty useful in objective based games (which is 5/6 of the normal selection). People seem to like putting lightly armoured targets on objectives to hold them, and often use wargears, characters or psychic powers to improve their cover save. The eradicator cares not for that. Guardsmen getting a 3+ going to ground behind an aegis? Blast, they die. Pathfinders hitting you with rail rifles in a building? Blast, they die. Units tend to clump to get into cover, so the concerns over blasts is mitigated, and if they move out of cover to avoid being Eradicated, they become vulnerable to your other weapons. Useful tank in hunting elusive infantry and clearing objectives, but completely dependent on your meta.

Lastly, the old Leman Russ Battle Tank. This old girl was a good weapon in 5th, hard to kill, and hit pretty hard back, but now, with the loss of Lumbering Behemoth, there are much better choices. Basically, against anything other than a marine footslogging list, there are better weapons in your arsenal. The only reason to use them these days is in Apocalypse where throwing around blast templates into tightly packed formations with no room to spread out across long ranges is handy. I'm hoping the basic Russ sees some love in the next codex, as by rights, it should be the most common variant on the table, as it is in the fluff, but for now, look elsewhere.

 Ailaros wrote:
They can't target fliers, and the main gun can't handle heavier armor,

So what? You have Vendettas, why do you need your heavy support to be able to ineffectively (and yes, every LR variant is ineffective at AA) throw a few dice at a flyer?

As for heavy armor, what can? Vanquishers and demolishers are the only option there, and the vanquisher is a single-purpose specialist that makes no sense as a first tank purchase.

 Frankenberry wrote:
It's a giant target, made moreso by that insane cannon, and your enemy is afraid of it so it gets a fair amount of attention.

This can often be a good thing. The LR Demolisher attracts a lot of attention, but it's still AV 14 and can soak up a lot of fire that would otherwise be going to your fragile troops. Plus, I'm not a fan of the whole "take weak units so they don't draw attention" plan, it's much better to make sure that every single unit in your list is a massive threat and there's no way your opponent can stop all of them at once.

I'm sure there'll be a post telling me that I suck at IG and the Demolisher is better than any tank ever made.

It's not the best, but it's the best generalist if you aren't sure what to do. You can put it into pretty much any list and get good results, and it will almost always have good targets to shoot at. The other options are just more specialized, you have to know what role you need before you choose one and the OP doesn't.

The Executioner, Punisher, Vanquisher and Demolisher have my votes.

Punishers put out insane amounts of dakka and even the toughest units will fall to it. But you need to kit it out just right for how you want to play it. It can get really expensive.

The Executioner is a pricey workhose, IMO. It excels at anti heavy infantry, can glance vehicles to death and it can handle hordes with some competence. I've gotten tank kills with it. Again, needs to be kitted out right and it can get -pricey-.

The Demolisher is awesomesauce. Take em cheap and take at least two.

The Vanquisher... it's a gamble really to take it, especially with Pask. With Pask it can one shot just about anything with at least average rolling. However, it's still only one shot and if you want to increase the amount of anti tank it gets then it really gets pricey. My Vanquishers haven't let me down yet but then again I'm new so this can be chalked up to luck.


The LRBT is okay. It can do anything but not too good. Take em if you want a ton of cheap AV14.

The Exterminator is good base but it needs upgrades to fullfill it's potential. Take Pask for glancing goodness.

Eradicator is meta specific, really. If you face SV 4+ armies a lot or you like thick terrain, this is your tank.

Thanks for all the help guys. I will be posting a army list in a while if you want to get check that out be my guest.

Im thinking of starting an ig allied detachment so this thread has been so useful. I was going to get an exterminator but i take it the punisher would be a better infantry slayer? I thought the 4 str 7 shots with re rolls would be good but clearly im missing something?

pax_imperialis wrote:
I thought the 4 str 7 shots with re rolls would be good but clearly im missing something?

You're missing the AP 4. You don't have the AP to make each shot dangerous to MEQs, and you don't have the volume of fire to really do anything to hordes or overwhelm marines with a giant pile of armor saves to make.

The LR Punisher is not bad. It's worse than a Vulture with TL punisher cannons and it's stuck in a fairly narrow role as a horde killer but if you know you need more anti-infantry shooting there are worse things you could do with your heavy support slots.

Yeah, autocannons have been overrated by guard players for awhile now. That said, exterminators are still better than regular russes. Depending on how you feel about 2x lascannons worth of killing power against vehicles, they might be better than the vanquisher as well.

Of course, the punisher is doing more against infantry, and does more damage in general, but if what you're facing off against is a lot of AV11 vehicles, or really want that first turn killing power (due to range), or just flat don't have the points, then the exterminator can be a better choice than the punisher.

My favorite has always been the crazy plasmastorm executioner.

It's probably not the most sensible/efficient/sane choice, but man is it fun.

I've watched it kill entire armies, and I've watched it kill one thing and then get shaken every turn afterwards until it died. It always contributes though.

As for it not being able to kill AA/Heavy vehicles, when you have a tank that can kill darn near anything you point it at in one shot (ok technically 5) you start to notice you have a lot more points to devote to things like anti tank/air

But Demolishers/Punishers/Exterminators/Vanquishers are probably more "competitive" choices though. I just use my Executioner because it's fun and it's one of the only variants I actually own the model for.