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Grey Hunters
IG platoon
IG Vets
Ork Boyz
GKTDA
Newcron Warriors
Kroot
DA Tactical
GKSS CSM Fire Warriors
BA assault marines
C:SM scouts
C:SM Tactical
DE warriors
Dire Avengers
DE wyches
Cultists
Sisters
Guardians
not including force mod choices. Like PM, DW etc
not including BT, 'Nids, or Daemons as I dont know
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
1. Tervigon... come on. 210 points standard, and will mess up any other troops in the game.
2. GH, still the best possible Tac equivalent
3. Necron Warriors: Cheap, RP, Gauss and decently tough, plus access to Night Scythe
4. IG blob, lots of bodies and good shooting, plus hidden Heavy weapons.
5. Strike Squad: A bit pricey, but good dakka and nice CC bonuses, but die too easy to be top tier Troops. Very good though.
6. Zombies: I hate the Typhus tax, but big blobs of these are a PITA big time. Tough to kill and fearless, ugh
7. Kroot Sniper Blob: In the context of the army they're great bubble wrap and decent shooters.
8. Pink Horrors: Still the best Daemon Troop in my mind, can go to ground behind Aegis for REROLLABLE 2++. ow, plus decent shooting even in small units.
9. SMTac squad: Having Combat Tactics means they are useful for a smart general.
10. BA Assault Squad: Not quite as good, jump packs are meh and can't assault from transports at all.
11. CSM squad: Not great due to LD issues, and get pricey fast. Access to autocannon makes me want these to be higher.
12. DE Warriors: Still annoying as heck with all splinter weapons and their fast transports.
13. Ork Boys: Im biased cause Nids ruin them, but PK is subject to challenges, and lack of Psychic Defense really hurts. Every time I play them, Iron Arm or Enfeeble and a Tervigon into the squad, they'll never escape.
14. Sisters of Battle: Never played SoB, but they don't look great. Then again, I've seen other players use them, so maybe?
15. Eldar Guardians: Low BS, Low range guns, weak guns, Low LD, Low Toughness, Low save, and way too expensive.
I'd switch CSM with C:SM Tactical squads. ATSKNF is so much better than paying a lot for a piece of wargear that will die and you lose fearless.
C:SM tacs just arent that flexible in my book. You basically must run 10 to get the free weapon, must run them at 10 to get a heavy weapon. cannot get a dual special.
I rank DA tacticals much higher because tehy have that flexibility(stubborn not withstanding)
CSM dont have ATSKNF, a huge hit. But they are cheap and very flexible.
I see your point though. CSM might be too high, but I will put them down with C:SM tacs, not moving C:SM tacs up.
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
Two questions:
What makes BA-tacticals so much better than other tactical squads? I play BA, but don't know much about other SM-armies.
Shouldn't Necron Immortals be in that list?
For one point more than a Tactical SM they have str5, ap4 weapons or str5 tesla.
Same armour-save, better transport and RP.
Kangodo wrote: Two questions:
What makes BA-tacticals so much better than other tactical squads? I play BA, but don't know much about other SM-armies.
Shouldn't Necron Immortals be in that list?
For one point more than a Tactical SM they have str5, ap4 weapons or str5 tesla.
Same armour-save, better transport and RP.
Although other people have ignored OP, I said one unit per army. For me, Necron Warriors are better than Immortals for the point cost.
jifel wrote: 1. Tervigon... come on. 210 points standard, and will mess up any other troops in the game. 2. GH, still the best possible Tac equivalent 3. Necron Warriors: Cheap, RP, Gauss and decently tough, plus access to Night Scythe 4. IG blob, lots of bodies and good shooting, plus hidden Heavy weapons. 5. Strike Squad: A bit pricey, but good dakka and nice CC bonuses, but die too easy to be top tier Troops. Very good though. 6. Zombies: I hate the Typhus tax, but big blobs of these are a PITA big time. Tough to kill and fearless, ugh 7. Kroot Sniper Blob: In the context of the army they're great bubble wrap and decent shooters. 8. Pink Horrors: Still the best Daemon Troop in my mind, can go to ground behind Aegis for REROLLABLE 2++. ow, plus decent shooting even in small units. 9. SMTac squad: Having Combat Tactics means they are useful for a smart general. 10. BA Assault Squad: Not quite as good, jump packs are meh and can't assault from transports at all. 11. CSM squad: Not great due to LD issues, and get pricey fast. Access to autocannon makes me want these to be higher. 12. DE Warriors: Still annoying as heck with all splinter weapons and their fast transports. 13. Ork Boys: Im biased cause Nids ruin them, but PK is subject to challenges, and lack of Psychic Defense really hurts. Every time I play them, Iron Arm or Enfeeble and a Tervigon into the squad, they'll never escape. 14. Sisters of Battle: Never played SoB, but they don't look great. Then again, I've seen other players use them, so maybe? 15. Eldar Guardians: Low BS, Low range guns, weak guns, Low LD, Low Toughness, Low save, and way too expensive.
Sorta along the lines of what I thought, but i want to expound on some choices that i hold differently:
C:SM tacs should be slightly higher: Free anti-horde weapons, and the no sweeping ability and being immune to fear is pretty big imo. Also their weapon upgrades are pretty cheap. Almost as good DA tacs, but C:SM tacs they can't get a SW in 5 man squads, and are more expensive.
Zombies should be lower: Basically switch guns for FNP & fearless along with not overwatch and not +1A on the charge. Considering they only have a 6+ save, any blob killing weaponry will rip these guys a new one.
IG blob should be slightly lower: BS3 is not very good, combined with you needing the bodies to do anything with your shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 19:19:11
jifel wrote: Sisters of Battle: Never played SoB, but they don't look great. Then again, I've seen other players use them, so maybe?
It's the only troop choice in the SoBWD Codex so anyone playing sisters will have them. They're solid if you know what to do with them, good armor and LD, good shooting at short ranges. Really requires a transport to get into the best position and avoid getting shot up though.
I'll only rate troops I've used Eldar and Dark Eldar. I factor them in a vaccuum except for their transports.
1. Eldar Guardian Jetbikes. 3+, jinky, 48" total potential movement. If you go 2nd you WILL get Linebreaker and deny as amnay objectives = to the amount of squads you have! Gold.
2. Dark Eldar Warriors. Lots of shots that just wound you on 4s, so there! Dismounted they die too quick but, they can take dedicated Raiders, greatly increasing their killing ability and slightly increasing their longevity. Silver.
3. Eldar Dire Avengers. Lots of shots on guys with 4+ armor. A Shimmershield Exarch can make that squad surprisingly good in close combat (for their price). Bronze.
4. Dark Eldar Wyches. Haywyches; put 5 in a Venom, charge'em at a tank and blow it up. That's about it.
5. Eldar Pathfinders. Anything that voids cover or can get to assault quickly nullifies these extreme over(point)costed dudes. Even Space Marine snipers aren't that good and they're 6 points less with better armor.
6. Eldar Wraithguard. Too expensive, in points and money. The squad is at least 350 pts. for 12" 1 shot weapons. Oh and you can only take 5 in the overpriced Serpent negating their troop ability. All they got going for them is innate fearless. The only reason I don't sell them to try and get back some of my money is the new codex is rumored to come out in the next 2 or so months.
7. Eldar Guardians. Trash. They are 8pt. Guardsmen; with less weapon options. They can take their heavy weapon on an overpriced Serpent and, they are I4, so yay??
NOTE: I have not fielded Dark Eldar Wracks or Dark Eldar Hellions as troops.
Also are we only counting "natural" troop entries? Or do Paladins (DraigoWing), Wolf Guard (LoganWing), DA Terminators (BelialWing), Henchmen (CoteazWing) also count?
Eldar (Craftworld Sahal-Deran) 2500pts. 2000pts Fully Painted.
Dark Eldar (Kabal of the Slashed Eye) 2000pts. 1250pts Fully Painted.
RancidHate wrote: I'll only rate troops I've used Eldar and Dark Eldar. I factor them in a vaccuum except for their transports.
1. Eldar Guardian Jetbikes. 3+, jinky, 48" total potential movement. If you go 2nd you WILL get Linebreaker and deny as amnay objectives = to the amount of squads you have! Gold.
2. Dark Eldar Warriors. Lots of shots that just wound you on 4s, so there! Dismounted they die too quick but, they can take dedicated Raiders, greatly increasing their killing ability and slightly increasing their longevity. Silver.
3. Eldar Dire Avengers. Lots of shots on guys with 4+ armor. A Shimmershield Exarch can make that squad surprisingly good in close combat (for their price). Bronze.
4. Dark Eldar Wyches. Haywyches; put 5 in a Venom, charge'em at a tank and blow it up. That's about it.
5. Eldar Pathfinders. Anything that voids cover or can get to assault quickly nullifies these extreme over(point)costed dudes. Even Space Marine snipers aren't that good and they're 6 points less with better armor.
6. Eldar Wraithguard. Too expensive, in points and money. The squad is at least 350 pts. for 12" 1 shot weapons. Oh and you can only take 5 in the overpriced Serpent negating their troop ability. All they got going for them is innate fearless. The only reason I don't sell them to try and get back some of my money is the new codex is rumored to come out in the next 2 or so months.
7. Eldar Guardians. Trash. They are 8pt. Guardsmen; with less weapon options. They can take their heavy weapon on an overpriced Serpent and, they are I4, so yay??
NOTE: I have not fielded Dark Eldar Wracks or Dark Eldar Hellions as troops.
Also are we only counting "natural" troop entries? Or do Paladins (DraigoWing), Wolf Guard (LoganWing), DA Terminators (BelialWing), Henchmen (CoteazWing) also count?
Is it me, or all of your choices are eldar-related? Seriously, just cuz some of them got bieks doesn't mean they can beat GHs or tervies w/ shootygaunts
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/06 22:30:16
RancidHate wrote: I'll only rate troops I've used Eldar and Dark Eldar. I factor them in a vaccuum except for their transports.
*snip*
Is it me, or all of your choices are eldar-related? Seriously, just cuz some of them got bieks doesn't mean they can beat GHs or tervies w/ shootygaunts
I am very fond of noise marines as a troop choice. Only bad part to me is they are a little pricey but if you build them for different rolls they are quite effective.
RancidHate wrote: I'll only rate troops I've used Eldar and Dark Eldar. I factor them in a vaccuum except for their transports.
*snip*
Is it me, or all of your choices are eldar-related? Seriously, just cuz some of them got bieks doesn't mean they can beat GHs or tervies w/ shootygaunts
I'm surprised that Ork Boys, the apparantly super-efficient infantry choice in the best infantry army in the game, are so low down many of the rankings.
Anyone seen 30 Shoota Boys, 3 Big Shootas, PKBP Nob w/ Big Shoota, with attached Painboss and KFF Mek? That 5+ FNP makes them goddamn tough as nails
Dakkamite wrote: I'm surprised that Ork Boys, the apparantly super-efficient infantry choice in the best infantry army in the game, are so low down many of the rankings.
Anyone seen 30 Shoota Boys, 3 Big Shootas, PKBP Nob w/ Big Shoota, with attached Painboss and KFF Mek? That 5+ FNP makes them goddamn tough as nails
Yeah but now we're talking troops with attached characters. That's opening a whole other level of discussion probably better for another thread.
For troops I love my CSM, I can take up to 20, make them fearless (for the same price as if there were 5, or 10) take a whole bunch of weapon options and even add toughness, initiative, attacks or save depending on my mood. Not the best in game but certainly a better choice than a standard C:SMTac.
These rankings swing massively depending on whether or not you include transports and FOC modifiers. Necron Warriors are fairly average scoring units, but imo jump into the top 3 if you include the Night Scythe - it makes them incredibly durable, has very solid damage output and it still probably the cheapest option in the top 10. I would definitely rate the Tervigon as the best troop unit in the game if you allow FOC modifiers, at ~200pts its around the same cost as most loaded out troop units, but spawns more scoring units and with psychic powers can do basically anything. Imo all the factors listed are valid, but by far the most important role for a troop unit is to be alive at the end of the game and grab objectives.
@RancidHate. Eldar Jetbikes are good, but you can't rely on them as your only scoring units as they are way to fragile. Yes they can grab objectives from anywhere late, but even going second you can get screwed over by random game length. If you allow buff units/support then Wraithguard should definitely be second on that list, with Fortune and the Baron for Hit and Run they are an absolute nightmare to deal with. All the rest of the Eldar and Dark Eldar scoring options are pretty much trash though, they all die far too easily (including Pathfinders) and buying them transports doesn't help because you have to disembark to do anything and said transports are either massively overpriced or made of paper. I find Guardians far more helpful than Avengers since they can bring a heavy weapon to chip away at things from long range, and despite them being overpriced I can still get more bodies around my Farseer/Eldrad, which is all I care about.
My list:
1. Tervigon
2. Necron Warriors in Nightscythe
3. Guard Blob (again its not great without support units, as soon is a Marine character is in there they become pretty crazy though)
4. Ork Boyz
5=Grey Hunters
5=Grey Knight Strikes
7. IG Vets
8. Grey Knight Terminators
9. Wraithguard (with support)
10. Eldar Jetbikes
The ability of Heldrakes to single handedly win games against MEQ infantry means only Strikes and Grey Hunters make the top 10, normal Tacticals don't bring enough to balance out their extreme vulnerablity to the Helturkey. Otherwise the focus is on hordes (Cultists don't make the cut since are terrible by themselves since they aren't Fearless, and the characters you attach to give them Fearless has to challenge) or seriously tough units (Tervigon, Terminators).
Kangodo wrote: Two questions:
What makes BA-tacticals so much better than other tactical squads? I play BA, but don't know much about other SM-armies.
Shouldn't Necron Immortals be in that list?
For one point more than a Tactical SM they have str5, ap4 weapons or str5 tesla.
Same armour-save, better transport and RP.
Although other people have ignored OP, I said one unit per army. For me, Necron Warriors are better than Immortals for the point cost.
you should do the math then.
170 points of warriors wil have less wounds than 170 points of immortals (by .2 or 3) against meqs they also have a better armor save and ap 4
I also agree about GH being the pinnacle and the third or so post about the CSM needing icon for fearless. It makes no sence that you should have to pay what is it, 25 points for something that all other MEQ has stock for the same or less points.
Worst troops choice in the game: everything that is not a DKOK Leman Russ Demolisher or Executioner.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
I need to return some video tapes. 
Skulls for the Skull Throne 
4000p
1500p
Eldar (Craftworld Sahal-Deran) 2500pts. 2000pts Fully Painted.
Dark Eldar (Kabal of the Slashed Eye) 2000pts. 1250pts Fully Painted. 
Seriously, just cuz some of them got bieks doesn't mean they can beat 
Sorry, didn't see it.
5000 
4500
