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Not sure if this belongs here, but anyway I've been reading lots of Babylon 5/Halo Crossovers, and have noted they always end up biased in favor of the UNSC (against the Minbari). Not that I have any complaints considering the utter bastards the Minbari in the backstory; anyway, my question is: is it justified (the bias I mean)?

The Minbari against the post-war UNSC; and please try to keep it reasonable.

If this goes anything like your Forerunner vs Eldar thread, this should be fun.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Not sure if this belongs here, but anyway I've been reading lots of Babylon 5/Halo Crossovers, and have noted they always end up biased in favor of the UNSC (against the Minbari). Not that I have any complaints considering the utter bastards the Minbari in the backstory; anyway, my question is: is it justified (the bias I mean)?

The Minbari against the post-war UNSC; and please try to keep it reasonable.

This again........

The Minbari would wipe the floor with the UNSC, they lost ONE ship in their war against man. But then again seeing how anyone who makes such stories can not keep themselves in line when it comes to fanwank I would expect anything else either.

 Trondheim wrote:


The Minbari would wipe the floor with the UNSC...

Care to explain why?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
If this goes anything like your Forerunner vs Eldar thread, this should be fun.

This...

Don't you get tired of posting HALO VS X threads in which you have already decided the winner is Halo?

 Corpsesarefun wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
If this goes anything like your Forerunner vs Eldar thread, this should be fun.

This...

Don't you get tired of posting HALO VS X threads in which you have already decided the winner is Halo?

Not this time. This time I'm really unsure who would win.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:


The Minbari would wipe the floor with the UNSC...

Care to explain why?

Watch the Babylon 5 series and you will understand shy.

 Trondheim wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:


The Minbari would wipe the floor with the UNSC...

Care to explain why?

Watch the Babylon 5 series and you will understand shy.

I did. And TBH, I'd rather watch Deep Space Nine, considering the Minbari were no better than Nazis (or the Imperium but that's beside the point) in the backstory but became the 'good guys' in the series.

In any case, I still fail to see how the Minbari would utterly curbstomp the post-war UNSC.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:


The Minbari would wipe the floor with the UNSC...

Care to explain why?

Watch the Babylon 5 series and you will understand shy.

I did. And TBH, I'd rather watch Deep Space Nine, considering the Minbari were no better than Nazis (or the Imperium but that's beside the point) in the backstory but became the 'good guys' in the series.

In any case, I still fail to see how the Minbari would utterly curbstomp the post-war UNSC.

Im sorry what? You have some really weird views on things. But then again regarding your history of these treads I am not really surprised either. Keep your fanboy goggles on until further notice.

Well, they did commit genocide during first contact.

After mankind provoked them, keep your facts correct if your going to play that card in particular.

Religious Warriors have historically been guilty of such things before .............. total unwavering belief that you are doing this for your God/Gods and that the enemy is just heretics/unbeliivers etc usually means little or no mercy. See the Imperium of Man..............

I am not keen on the Minbari - but I understand what they did, especially given the Vorlon manipulation of their racial psyche. This added to a overely arrogant warrior caste who are "honourable" (but hide behind stealth fields- bit like the Klingons really ) but like most "honourable" warriors in history - like say Samurai - they often have only contempt for non warriors.

I have no idea about the military capabilities of the Halo military and crossovers are always hugely difficult to try and call as the assumptions about technology in one universe seldom hold true in another.

Although if they are getting destroyed by the Minbari - maybe a "nice" guy will come and offer them some help form his associates........

Yes, I know the Humans fired first, but only because the boneheads opened their gunports on approach. They all but shouted "We're going to attack!" Heck, even Dukhat said it was reckless/unwise to do so.

 Mr Morden wrote:
This added to a overely arrogant warrior caste who are "honourable" (but hide behind stealth fields- bit like the Klingons really

Or the Sangheili

Although if they are getting destroyed by the Minbari - maybe a "nice" guy will come and offer them some help form his associates........

You mean the Librarian/IsoDidact?

And the human commander had clear orders.... Yet he disobeyed them. Funny you let that one out

I haven't watched Babylon 5 series but lemme esplain something. The UNSC has a bunch of cheap, outdated and ineffective junk that is probably only used because it's durable and easy to make (I assume). For example, the Scorpion is actually worse than our tanks. It's armor is penetrated by a .50 caliber machine gun and it only fires 90mm rounds. The M1 Abrams fires a 105mm round for comparison and it can take RPG rounds like there's no tomorrow.

Then there's the Warthog. Hard to maneuver, underarmored and is only saved by it's excellent turret system. Even then the gunner is -easy- prey for any enterprising jackal sniper. In fact, there are no bleeding doors on the thing! It's a sniper's best friend! It also lacks anti tank rocket defense which our HMMVs have.

The mongoose. Easy to wreck and is used on frontline service. They actually expect soldiers to fire off rockets while riding on the back of this thing. Why is that part of UNSC tactical doctrine? Why are they trained to do this?

The Pelican. Easily downed by a single shot from a banshee as seen in Halo 3. In fact, most of the time these things crash. Cool looking vehicle but it's a death trap.

The MA5B assault rifle. Who the hell designed this piece of crap? It's devastating in tight quarters, yes, but why would they expect marines to use this? The MA37 is an all around better weapon but they gave the MA5B to their elite troopers to use! The thing wastes ammunition and can't hit the side of a barn. More dakka isn't always a good thing.

The M7 SMG. Again, who designed this? Did Misriah armories forget how to rifle barrels? Was it a cost cutting method? Are the "Best of the Best" really expected to fight a war with such inaccurate weapons?

Their body armor. Not too bad since it seems to stop bullets reliably but really in 500 years we can expect stuff that can stop our bullets entirely.

Why does future humanity still rely on cased ammunition? They -have- caseless ammunition so why not universally adopt it? Also, why don't Marines get sentry turrets?

The M90 Shotgun. Not a bad weapon seeing as it could stop even zealots well but it seemed like, as time went on, the UNSC made cost cutting measure after cost cutting measure. It got to the point where a military shotgun can't hit anything beyond 20 feet and had only 6 rounds.

Why do UNSC soldiers only carry 3 spare mags for the BR55? It's standard issue for some units. Too heavy? Seems like the caseless ammunition you have thar would work well don't it?

Orbital MACs. How does the UNSC expect this to hit anything? It's a slow loading single shot mounted on a space station. It's a stationary cannon. Do they wait until covenant ships line up in front of it? It could be that the gun itself moves but we never see it do that.

The pistols. M6D is a great weapon but why did they see fit to replace it with the inferior M6G? Wanted to give the covenant a fighting chance?

Hornets. Weak as crap for an aircraft from 500 years in the future. We have better guns today that can easily be mounted on similar platforms. To quote 1d4chan, it's so bad that adding two schmucks with rocket launchers noticeably increases it's firepower.

The UNSC has terribad weapons, vehicles and armor by -our- standards. Our standards. We could beat them in land battle. Our guns fire the same cartridges but much more accurately and our body armor is just as good. Our vehicles are far more durable. Our aircraft has far better weaponry and speed. This is an army that is supposed to take place in the future. They are pathetic for a future army and I have a feeling the only reason the incompetent covenant got as far as they did is because their foe was just as bad.

 Trondheim wrote:
And the human commander had clear orders.... Yet he disobeyed them. Funny you let that one out

Field commanders are supposed to make adjustments if necessary. In this case, it proved disastrous.

And like a fool I ask yet again: why would the Minbari curbstomp the UNSC?

 TheCustomLime wrote:


Orbital MACs. How does the UNSC expect this to hit anything? It's a slow loading single shot mounted on a space station. It's a stationary cannon. Do they wait until covenant ships line up in front of it? It could be that the gun itself moves but we never see it do that.

It's not slow. The shots have a speed of 12,000km/sec. And they can fire one shot every five seconds.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Yes, I know the Humans fired first, but only because the boneheads opened their gunports on approach. They all but shouted "We're going to attack!" Heck, even Dukhat said it was reckless/unwise to do so.

 Mr Morden wrote:
This added to a overely arrogant warrior caste who are "honourable" (but hide behind stealth fields- bit like the Klingons really

Or the Sangheili

Although if they are getting destroyed by the Minbari - maybe a "nice" guy will come and offer them some help form his associates........

You mean the Librarian/IsoDidact?

nope I meant Mr Morden and his associates the Shadows (the polar opposite of the Vorlons - they believe in building strength through forced evolution, Chaos and conflict - the Vorlons belive in buidling strength through Law, unity etc). They, like their rivals are incredably advanced and fond of lending assistance and technology to bring about conflicts that will wead out the weak and strengthen the survivors.

TBH, I found the Shadows' philosophy as more attractive compared to the Vorlons'.

For one thing, it's easier to answer the Shadow's question "What do you want?" than that of the Vorlons' "Who are you?"

The path to darkness is easier, more seductive etc

Neither side is really good for you - you need a healthy balance of both the forces of Chaos and Order.

but then I too really like the Shadows - hence my forum name, picture,game supplements etc

 Mr Morden wrote:
The path to darkness is easier, more seductive etc

Shadow: What do you want?

Me: Power; power to make my visions real.

Shadow: How far are you willing to go?

Me: As far as it takes.

(Humanity burns the galaxy to the ground in the process of 'ascension')

but then I too really like the Shadows - hence my forum name, picture,game supplements etc

Oh yeah, I just noticed 'Mr. Morden'

Actually Sheridan nuked the Blackstar and three other Minbari cruisers. Was only mention once of the total loss. Blackstar was mention like five times.

USNC is outclassed, out gunned, out weighted, and out tech. Minbari had their regular fleet(s) but also the Vorlon/Minbari breed of ships. Also remember. The Minbari had the Rangers.

Jihadin, don't forget that there was only one human commander to ever survive contact with the Minbari, and he's not in the UNSC!

Yeah, wouldn't Minbari cloaking just seal the deal as well?

The only successful engagements the EA had was when their cloaking was down (First Contact) and against a mine which doesn't require target lock.
And Minbari would be able to call in the rangers and possibly the vorlons 'if' they needed to.

And how exactly are they Nazis? They were attacked by humans and had their greatest leader since Valin and responded by fighting back, and seeing how much humans fought on when they had lost they killed all possible combatants

The minbari were the Only younger race to survive the first Great War, they have been an advanced spacefaring race for over a thousand years. The Earth Alliance were not a weak power when we had our 'falling out', having really messed up the Dilgar, a race which had previously been on an equal footing with the Narn and Centauri. (EA did get a sizable amount of support from the forming LoNAW, but the EA did the majority of nose to nose combat with this advanced species). The Dilgar were nothing like as powerful as the Minbari. They bridge the gap between First Ones and the younger races.

They would take the UNSC down a dark alleyway and teach it new ways to scream.

There is no contest here at all.

And really glad to see the OP invoke Godwyn so early.

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
And how exactly are they Nazis? They were attacked by humans and had their greatest leader since Valin and responded by fighting back, and seeing how much humans fought on when they had lost they killed all possible combatants

Combatants, civilians, innocents - ALL were targeted by the Minbari - even Delenn says they went mad in their drive to exterminate the human race - and she was the first member of the Grey Council to say "Kill them All".

It was not a war - it was an attempt at genocide.....and if you consider the rpg material as canon (which not everyone does) it was not the first time they had done this.

But then B5 has alot of shades of grey and I can't think of a major race that has not done terrible things to other races.............

There are some other races on a par with them - the Hyach for instance that survived the previous Shadow War.

If the Halo forces are no more advanced than humans in B5 in the time of the Earth Minbari war (or less so as the post seem to imply) they, like the mighty Earth Alliance, have absoultely no chance unless assisted by outside forces.... even the Centauri (even in thier declinning state, probably the most powerful and advanced Young Racec power at the time) apparently warned Earth to stay away from the Minbari.....

Yeah, there's no contest. The Minbari would annihilate the UNSC and the Covenant at the same time for giggles.

I think that MAC cannons mounted on UNSC ships would be able to destroy Minbari Warships, but all in all the Minbari would obliterate them.

Edit: If I remember the Halo novels correctly, the MAC guns were literally the only effective weapon against Covenant ships. The issue was getting them lined up before the UNSC vessel was melted by those homing plasma torpedoes.

Membari have bio organic warships. In addition to massive firepower its difficult to actually track them.

The Whitestars Frazz...the Whitestars...Mimbari/Vorlon tech. As for the tracking on sensors.....depends if USNC and EA ships had the same contractors As for weapons compare to the MAC....I have to go with sustain firepower. How fast can the MAC cycle through rounds compare to the Mimbari cruisers...off the top of my head....three main lasers and like at least two burst laser/plasma main guns?....though I think the Mimbari fighters woould eat alive the UNSC top teir ships before their main ships nail them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think an even match for the Mimbari would be the Imperials (Star Wars)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Space battle....now ground battle...infantry vs infantry that be a no brainer.....because we can't compare the Mimbari infantry

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


Orbital MACs. How does the UNSC expect this to hit anything? It's a slow loading single shot mounted on a space station. It's a stationary cannon. Do they wait until covenant ships line up in front of it? It could be that the gun itself moves but we never see it do that.

It's not slow. The shots have a speed of 12,000km/sec. And they can fire one shot every five seconds.

The loading is slow not the actual speed. 5 seconds is admittedly rather fast for a gun of it's size but it's still a stationary platform. If it had excellent rocket systems that could aim it around quickly then a MAC would be an effective weapon. As is it's just somewhat of an area denial platform. Even then orbital MACs are stupid easy to board/destroy considering the crap troops defending them.