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Hey there Dakka,

I'm planning to start a Warriors of Chaos force soon, and I want it (as always) to be heavily thematic and story-based, rather than purely effective.

The issue isn't a lack of ideas/inspiration, but rather too many ideas, and I'm having real trouble settling on anything. Here are my main "theme" ideas:

-1) Slaanesh Devotees that have been "stripped" of pleasure. The Idea behind this is that Slaanesh is my favourite Chaos god, but I'm really not a fan of having my badass warriors of the north wearing vibrant pinks/purples to battle So I thought perhaps an army that had become so self-indulgent they'd began venerating themselves rather than Slaanesh, and to punish them (and remind them whom they really serve) Slaanesh stripped them of the ability to feel pleasure outside of Slaaneshi worship, marking them all with his Sigil. To represent this I'd colour them in a an just-off-grey-purple sort of colour, and show their Slaaneshi allegiance through tattoos and other subtle devices.

-2) Lava-ish Undivided warriors. The idea here being a force of warriors that inhabit some kind of deep mountain hold close to large amounts of lava, with close ties to the Chaos Dwarves (allows me to buy/paint some ). Their armour retains the heat with which it was forged, allowing me to paint an awesome effect on the armour. My only issue being I like the Snow/Ice Norse warrior type feel, and would like to base my WoC as such, and this would pretty much disallow that.

-3) Big up the barbarianess!. An army with much more emphasis on the "Argh we're gonna ruin your day" bad-assery aspect of WoC than the Gods Worship side. Allows me to not worry about Godly themes, but also "weakens" them a great deal.

So what do you guys think of those ideas? Which do you prefer? Are there any themes you've seen before or would like to see done that you particularly like? Please say so!

Thanks everyone!

Anybody? I'd really appreciate some opinions on this

Well I do like the first one

Remember that Slaaneshi Warriors are wearing pitch black armour regulary.

Id go for three though, maybe because Im in a Marauder mood recently, but well..

Slaanesh isn't just pleasure. He's pretty much any sensory experience. I think a good analogy is the Cenobytes from Hellraiser.


Where pleasure and pain morphed and they practices self-mutilation.

"My notes say that he wanted ‘1. areas of revealed flesh where some kind of torture has, or is occurring. 2. something associated with butchery involved’ and then here we have a very Clive turn of phrase, I’ve written down, ‘repulsive glamour.’ And the other notes that I made about what he wanted was that they should be ‘magnificent super-butchers’. There would be one or two of them with some ‘hangers on’ as he put it, and that there would be four or five altogether.”

Barker drew inspiration for the Cenobite designs from punk fashion, Catholicism and by the visits he took to SM clubs in New York and Amsterdam.[2]

thenoobbomb wrote:Remember that Slaaneshi Warriors are wearing pitch black armour regulary.

Id go for three though, maybe because Im in a Marauder mood recently, but well..

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that. The Marauders are cool, they've always been a favourite of mine

DukeRustfield wrote:Slaanesh isn't just pleasure. He's pretty much any sensory experience. I think a good analogy is the Cenobytes from Hellraiser.


Where pleasure and pain morphed and they practices self-mutilation.

Ah yes! I remember reading about this actually, I'd forgotten about that aspect. So a much darker, almost sadist-like look would be okay? The Raiders from Fallout come to mind.

If you are going Slaanesh(which I might add is my least favorite of the gods) look for more of a dark, sadist appeal. Look at Sigvald along with a daemonette running a DE army and that would give you a good idea of what they should look like. I personally like the Marauders of the North idea, but you can still give them a god aspect. As i happen to build my army around theme more than tournament style my army is a Khorne/Nurgle army with my Lord having the MoK and his DP being a MoN ....this has been the most fun army I have painted as I went with a story type background and painted from there, I have even picked up certain named chars. along the way for story flow. If you like Slaanesh take it and go with it ....and have fun!

less Fallout Raiders, more Firefly Reavers for me...
batcrap crazy - check
self mutilation (for the kicks) - check
sadistic and cruel modus-operandi - check
enjoy going a rapin and a pillagin and a murderin? - triple check

could be quite a cool combo of one and three...

Nah. Beastmen are reavers. Slaanesh are still cognizant of their actions. They are just morally bankrupt. Their only goal is pleasure of the senses. They aren't insane. In fact, you have to CHOOSE to be Slaanesh, which you can't do if you're nuts. Which is why the dark gods don't care much for Daemons/Beastmen, because it is in their nature to be like that. Having a priest of sigmar have orgies is Slaanesh. Just burning the temple down and killing and mutilating everyone is Beastmen.

I personally got into WoC as my first army because I loved the 'evil Viking' thing they had going.

I always ran my army as a Norse tribe fanatically dedicated to Khorne, lots of (bearded) Chaos Warriors and marauders and a really badass Chaos Lord at the top who was the Jarl in charge of the whole thing. Fairly standard, but I like running it.

If I were to give my advice, I'll give what I'll always say; play up the Viking feel of the army. Who doesn't love Vikings?

Nah. Beastmen are reavers. Slaanesh are still cognizant of their actions. They are just morally bankrupt. Their only goal is pleasure of the senses. They aren't insane. In fact, you have to CHOOSE to be Slaanesh, which you can't do if you're nuts. Which is why the dark gods don't care much for Daemons/Beastmen, because it is in their nature to be like that. Having a priest of sigmar have orgies is Slaanesh. Just burning the temple down and killing and mutilating everyone is Beastmen.

Beastmen are cognizant of their actions, and there actually are Beastmen Chaos Champions. I can remember one BM Champion of Tzeentch from the old The Thousand Thrones WHFRPv2 supplement called Gronk. The Chaos Gods have as much an interest in their antics as they do those of any other mortal race.

Marauders for the win! They definetely give that pirate-y feel to the army, definetely take wulfric if you do go for that theme

Korm wrote:
Beastmen are cognizant of their actions, and there actually are Beastmen Chaos Champions. I can remember one BM Champion of Tzeentch from the old The Thousand Thrones WHFRPv2 supplement called Gronk. The Chaos Gods have as much an interest in their antics as they do those of any other mortal race.

You can't be a champion of Beastmen. Whether or not there was a supplement 20 years ago at a fan faire doesn't mean much. You can't now. It's not in the rules. The Chaos Gods do not have much interest in them because it says they don't in the very newest DoC army book.

A human can be Empire/Brettonian. Some shining flower of light and goodness. Or they can worship the gods of Chaos. A Beastman is a Beastman. The book never even remotely hints they can be anything other than that. Daemons care about choices. Beastmen don't have to be tempted and corrupted, they are already corrupt. A Jaberslythe will never be a mount for a holy knight of love. A minotaur will not run an orphanage for disadvantaged youths and teach them how to sew. More importantly, they will never fight against the Chaos Gods (barring some convenient reason why 2 such armies should fight, like weeding out the weak or boredom).

So yeah, they are cognizant of their actions, but they have little choice. DoC doesn't waste its time trying to convert those who are already converted. Beastmen are born children of Chaos. It is the very first sentence that describes them in the 8th edition BRB.

 FenWulf29 wrote:
Marauders for the win! They definetely give that pirate-y feel to the army, definetely take wulfric if you do go for that theme

Wulfrik's novel was exquisite. Anyone who wants to start a Chaos army really ought to give it a read to understand how the Northmen work. Ditto for Slaves to Darkness.

You can't be a champion of Beastmen. Whether or not there was a supplement 20 years ago at a fan faire doesn't mean much. You can't now. It's not in the rules. The Chaos Gods do not have much interest in them because it says they don't in the very newest DoC army book.

WHFRPv2 was actually fairly recent. Anyway, the third edition says roughly the same thing in regards to the Beastmen. GW's official stance on the subject is that 'everything and nothing is canon', primarily because they don't want to tie themselves down to one version of their fluff. So anything can be whatever you want it to be; it's a hobby.

A human can be Empire/Brettonian. Some shining flower of light and goodness. Or they can worship the gods of Chaos. A Beastman is a Beastman. The book never even remotely hints they can be anything other than that. Daemons care about choices. Beastmen don't have to be tempted and corrupted, they are already corrupt. A Jaberslythe will never be a mount for a holy knight of love. A minotaur will not run an orphanage for disadvantaged youths and teach them how to sew. More importantly, they will never fight against the Chaos Gods (barring some convenient reason why 2 such armies should fight, like weeding out the weak or boredom).

Are you saying that all Chaos Champions have to be 'fallen heroes'? Are you forgetting that the majority of them are tribal chieftains and war-leaders that come from the extreme North of the world where people are born into Chaos worship and see the gods as positive influences? And hence don't need to be subverted into that religion because to them, it's basically no different than Imperials obsessing over Sigmar and Ulric? Being "born children of Chaos" has no bearing on whether or not you're capable of being a Champion - the Norse, Kurgan and Hung are practically the same thing also despite being humans. And it's not like Chaos Champions have no lives off the battlefield, hell, Melekh the Changer had a son.

Of course, unless you subscribe to the misconception of "no no! the Chaos Gods are pure evil and that's final!". In which case, I'm not sure how far this can go.

I am not a Chaos fan, but when I played Warhammer Online, I found the Raven God (Tzeentch) faction the most convincing.
Maybe add Russian Alternative Barbarians and the Ultraforge Vrok as "Raven God":

 Kroothawk wrote:
I am not a Chaos fan, but when I played Warhammer Online, I found the Raven God (Tzeentch) faction the most convincing.
Maybe add Russian Alternative Barbarians and the Ultraforge Vrok as "Raven God":

Wow... Those are hardcore. I wish more people would put beards on their Marauders.

Vrok could be a stand in for a Lord of Change though. In case you're wondering, 'Raven God' is the name Tzeentch gets from the Northmen. Khorne, similarly, gets 'Blood Wolf' or 'Wolf-Father'.

I have to know though, is the first picture a conversion for actual Chaos Marauders? It's got the eight-pointed star and everything.

GW is not the only one who has borrowed Moorcock's Chaos star
Those are Russian miniatures as well.

 Kroothawk wrote:
GW is not the only one who has borrowed Moorcock's Chaos star
Those are Russian miniatures as well.

Yeah, but GW was the first to put them on Vikings. As far as I know, anyway.

Anyway, if they're not marauders, what game are they supposed to be for?

Going by the company name, they're alternative models for Fantasy.

Wolf-father? Never heard that name, But you forgot, the great hound and the Lord of Hounds (khorne in both cases)

Korm wrote:
Are you saying that all Chaos Champions have to be 'fallen heroes'? Are you forgetting that the majority of them are tribal chieftains and war-leaders that come from the extreme North of the world where people are born into Chaos worship and see the gods as positive influences? And hence don't need to be subverted into that religion because to them, it's basically no different than Imperials obsessing over Sigmar and Ulric? Being "born children of Chaos" has no bearing on whether or not you're capable of being a Champion.

Of course, unless you subscribe to the misconception of "no no! the Chaos Gods are pure evil and that's final!". In which case, I'm not sure how far this can go.

Let's see, it's irrelevant if someone is born into a religion. Mortals can choose anything. The vast majority of northerners aren't scary chaos guys. Because they'd have no food and wouldn't be making babies, because they'd be blooding them for the blood god, and they would die out after one season. But that's a far cry from Beastmen. Beastmen aren't born lower class and on the wrong side of the tracks. They are, let's quote this again: the children of chaos. They are monsters. There's a section in DoC that says the gods don't care about monsters or even daemons because they have no choice. Empire don't have to worship Sigmar, it's just a hip thing to do.

Being born of chaos certainly does prohibit you from being a champion. And I'll prove it: they can't be champions. Beastmen have no champions of Chaos. They have no Chaos Armor or Chosen or more importantly Daemon Princes--the greatest reward the gods can give.

The chaos gods ARE pure evil. They make it extremely clear in the DoC book. Just flipping through the front: "There is one cause in which they stand united: the damnation of the mortal realm and all who dwell within it." That's not sorta' mean. That's not sitting on the fence. The Dark Gods are called the Dark Gods not because they have suntans. There's pages and pages that detail how they are twisted versions of mortal emotions. That's how they came to be. They're just more concerned with fighting each other.

 TheDungen wrote:
Wolf-father? Never heard that name, But you forgot, the great hound and the Lord of Hounds (khorne in both cases)

It's mentioned in Knight of the Blazing Sun. Khorne gets associated with wolves a lot, for some odd reason. Wouldn't bears be better? He's all about strength, and wolves depend on teamwork and coordination to bring down prey.

Let's see, it's irrelevant if someone is born into a religion. Mortals can choose anything. The vast majority of northerners aren't scary chaos guys. Because they'd have no food and wouldn't be making babies, because they'd be blooding them for the blood god, and they would die out after one season.

Yes they are. Primarily for the reason that the vast majority of any Chaos incursion is made up of warriors from the Norse, Kurgan and Hung tribes. As described in their codex. Next, 9/10 times, the Everchosen has been a Northman. Morkar the Uniter was a Norscan, as confirmed by the Legend of Sigmar, Asavar Kul, quite obviously, was Kul Kurgan. Archaon as a Southman is an anomaly, and it's brought up in the Storm of Chaos codex that he keeps his birth a secret known only to his most trusted lieutenants because if the NORTHMEN who made up his army found out, they'd probably desert him for it.

Furthermore, read a novel depicting Chaos Warriors, you'll find that most of them tend to come from Norse or other Northman stock. Hell, it's not like the codex entry for Chaos Warriors says they come almost always from the best of the Northman tribes. Are all Northmen Chaos worshipers? Maybe not. But a lot of them are. This is worked around to death in any material where Chaos features.

And furthermore, there are many ways to worship the Chaos Gods. Just because you worship Khorne doesn't mean you have to kill everything you see all the time. Worshiping Khorne could be confined to dedicating those kills to him and invoking his name in battle. The list goes on.

Being born of chaos certainly does prohibit you from being a champion. And I'll prove it: they can't be champions. Beastmen have no champions of Chaos. They have no Chaos Armor or Chosen or more importantly Daemon Princes--the greatest reward the gods can give.

Yes they do because it's given in Thousand Thrones and Tome of Corruption, just because you don't regard either of those as canon doesn't change anything. There' even a Beastman Chaos Champion in Blood for the Blood God by C.L. Werner.

The chaos gods ARE pure evil. They make it extremely clear in the DoC book. Just flipping through the front: "There is one cause in which they stand united: the damnation of the mortal realm and all who dwell within it." That's not sorta' mean. That's not sitting on the fence. The Dark Gods are called the Dark Gods not because they have suntans. There's pages and pages that detail how they are twisted versions of mortal emotions. That's how they came to be. They're just more concerned with fighting each other.

And yet, tons of material from BL novels and background supplements like Liber Chaotica shows that there are interpretations of the Chaos Gods that can go from purely negative to somewhat positive. They're gods of emotions taken to extremes, but there are still positive concepts behind them. Khorne being for honour and bravery, Tzeentch being for knowledge, etc. The Chaos Gods have positive points behind them, else no-one would worship them.

Novels are novels. That is like individual player fluff. Meaning, you could have a human leading a tribe of Ogres. You could have a new birthing of Slann. You could have vegetarian hippie Orcs. But that's not canon. It's not wrong, but if you're asking do humans lead ogres, the answer is no. It's not impossible, because it's fantasy and anything is possible.

But you can't make a Beastman champion. They don't exist. They state DoC don't care about monsters. And WoC get all the goodies (even more than DoC).

There's nothing stopping you from making a Beastman champion. Giving him a ward save and spiffy gear and and gifts and say Nurgle himself has taken an interest. Knock yourself out. But you can do that with anything. Empire Steam Tank can be a walking robot instead. A High Elf dragon could be a biplane made by their super engineer. There's a difference between the book canon and what makes sense.

I actually preferred chaos before they rolled them in with norsca. When chaos warriors were people of any nation who sought power and wandered north. Maybe the northerners were more prone to do so but it wasn't state religion of the northern tribes. They fought as much against chaos as with it. good times.

Becoming evil because you seek power is a lot more interesting than being born into worshipping evil. One is active the other is passive.

 TheDungen wrote:
I actually preferred chaos before they rolled them in with norsca. When chaos warriors were people of any nation who sought power and wandered north. Maybe the northerners were more prone to do so but it wasn't state religion of the northern tribes. They fought as much against chaos as with it. good times.

Becoming evil because you seek power is a lot more interesting than being born into worshipping evil. One is active the other is passive.

Maybe, but I kinda like it better this way because now its more likely for Chaos's positive aspects to be given some representation. Rather than it merely being dumbed down to a corrupting force. Back in the old Enemy Within campaign for the first edition WHFRP, Chaos was basically just gribbly cultists dedicated to destruction just because. Now you have Norscan marauders dedicated to Khorne because he gives them strength to survive in the north, etc. The gist of it is; Chaos is supposed to be elemental, unbound, and in a word - Chaotic. Not strictly evil. They can seem like that, but Khorne's still just as for martial honour and excellence at arms as he is for "KILL! MAIM! BURN!". Wild, savage gods. It's more apparent know that they're worshiped by barbarians, and it serves to humanize Chaos Champions more. I wont go into detail with examples, but now that they're just as likely to be barbarian war-leaders as fallen knights and gak, they're heaps more interesting.

Anyway, if you really like the old Norscan fluff, you can pick up Sigmar's Heirs where there are some kingdoms of Northmen holding out against their brothers in Archaon's horde. For my part though, I like Chaos Vikings.

Chaos is a pretty theme heavy army when it comes to options
Soo many choices and soo many great ideas.


I'd still be tempted to run a kholek and throgg army, simply because an army made of trolls and dragon ogres is pretty damn nasty.




Also, for those saying about beasts having no real connection to the gods, please, dont go there
You must be new to chaos as a whole for such an opinion as they have allways been linked with the gods.

But since fluff changes, how about the army in general?

Chaos spawn - Either a gift or a punishment from a god bestowed on a champion.
Beastmen have spawn.

And then theres pestigors:



Of course, being disease ridden and holding a totem of 3 circles isnt related to anything though, is it?

Also, wasnt there khornate versions of these aswell?

 Jackal wrote:
Chaos is a pretty theme heavy army when it comes to options
Soo many choices and soo many great ideas.


I'd still be tempted to run a kholek and throgg army, simply because an army made of trolls and dragon ogres is pretty damn nasty.




Also, for those saying about beasts having no real connection to the gods, please, dont go there
You must be new to chaos as a whole for such an opinion as they have allways been linked with the gods.

But since fluff changes, how about the army in general?

Chaos spawn - Either a gift or a punishment from a god bestowed on a champion.
Beastmen have spawn.

And then theres pestigors:



Of course, being disease ridden and holding a totem of 3 circles isnt related to anything though, is it?

Also, wasnt there khornate versions of these aswell?

Yup. Khorngors.

There were Slaaneshi ones and Tzeentch ones also.

Go Beastmen. Baa~

Funnily enough, they are all dropped from GW's site.
Even using a link to get there shows them and a price, just no add to basket option

There were slaangors and tzeengors in the list no minis were ever produced.