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I am looking to dip a toe into some of the Iraq/Afghan themed skirmish sets that are doing the rounds at the moment and I wondered if anyone has any experience playing these rule sets and can offer some recommendations. I am aware of 'Force on Force' from Osprey but are there any others in direct competition? Which is the 'best'? I picked up a copy of 'Wargames Soldiers & Strategy' at my local newsagents this weekend, mainly out of curiosity and saw a feature on a modern rule set called 'Skirmish Sangin' from a New Zealand publisher - it looked quite spiffy but I am not sure where/if it is available here in the UK.

The checklist of things any potential game needs to have are:

Hardcopy rules - I don;t have any truck with PDF downloads so a physical copy is a must.

As per the above, rules need to be available from the UK

Needs to be a modern rules set, set in either Iraq/Afghanistan or a fictional version thereof.

Needs to be skirmish.

Ideally should be around 28mm scale as this fits easily with existing scenery + stuff already on the market.

So give me your suggestions please, denizens of the Misc section!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually this should really go in the Historicals section so I shall shift it there now!

Well your options really are;

Force-on-Force

Skirmish Sangin


When you say 'skirmish' how many figures do you want to use? F-on-F will handle up to a reinforced platoon (say 40 odd figs plus vehicles) while SS is aimed at a squad aside really.

Both are excellent games, just depends how you want to focus your games.

Bear in mind, I helped write the Osprey F-on-F and the sourcebooks... So Im a little biased!

That said, you wont find better soircebooks that the F-on-F ones, especially the A'stan book. Its written by an author who has several books on the subject with input from several veterans.

All that said, both are really good games, so which ever you choose, you will have a good core game.

Well skirmish is a fairly nebulous term, I will concede, but I guess I am aiming at squad based level so, say 10 figures per side up to, say 30 - and that's plucking some random figures out of my bum!

Skirmish Sangin looks good but after googling it, it seems if I want the hardcopy book, I have to order it direct from the manufacturer in New Zealand, which is a bit of a pest, as they don't seem to have European distributor yet. So it looks like Force on For e it is then! Where is the best place to start? Do I just need the Force on Force book or is there a master rule book or additional supplements or something? I am assuming I need just the rulebook and two small forces and I am good to go.

Face of Modern Battle is the main competitor to Force-on-Force that i have seen.

http://www.thefaceofbattle.com/

I like Force-on-Force a lot, but have not played Face of Modern Battle.

Edit: Here is a review of the Face of Modern Battle I found: http://dhcwargamesblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/the-rules-we-use-the-face-of-modern-battle/

Force on Force tends to abstract things a bit. You focus less on the equipment (really, the only thing you need to know equipment wise for Infantry is if it is a significant tech advancement over your opponent. An M16 wouldn't give you a bonus over an AK, but an M16 would over a bolt action rifle) and more on the actual skill of the soldier.

FoMB is more accurate in differentiating between weapons. An example used in the review above was that an MG42 and Maxim were both heavy machine guns, but they were two really different behaving weapons.

I personally didn't like FoMB as I didn't like it's card based system. You can play it without however, only it takes a bit of the battlefield randomness and havoc like in real life away.

Thanks for the replies all - much food for thought. I have taken the plunge and ordered a bunch of Force on Force books off Amazon as they were priced reasonably competetively - I got the FoF main book and the Iraq and Afghan sourcebooks. Now I need to find some minis. Anyone suggest some 28mm minis that are easily obtainable from UK? I like the Black Scorpion USMC and Militia models and having bought their stuff before, I may well use them again but I also will need some other assorted militia and SAS troopers so anyone got any good links? Potentially some armoured vehicles too like Warrior etc etc?

Links to some terrain manufacturers would be nice too - I would like some of those flat roofed-type buildings, palm trees etc etc.

Enjoy the books... I illustrated all those with miniature pics...

28mm you want Empress Miniatures.

http://www.empressminiatures.com





Personally, I'd go with 20mm Elhiem Figures...

http://www.elhiemfigures.com



...but if your scenery is 28mm then best sticking to that...

Loads of terrain for 20mm around, but I dunno who does 28mm in the UK. Vehicles are easier in 20mm too... and cheaper. But in 28mm check out Imprint Models.

28mm moderns. Hmm, not my forte (I play 15mm).

Honestly, 20mm is the best way to play moderns (as that lines up with 1/72 and you can use all those modeling kits available). But, if you are set on 28mm, I know Eureka, Empress, TAG (The Assault Group)....but not a whole lot else. I'm not too well versed on vehicles either, as all I ever did in 28mm was infantry squad on squad fighting.

EDIT: Ah, Piers ninja'd me. Listen to him, HE knows what he's talking about quite nicely!

Hmm OK, maybe I shall run with 20mm then! There is no particular reason to pick 28mm other than that is what the Black Scorpion figures are scaled at but if there are plenty of credible alternatives at 20mm then I shall switch to that.

Cheers for the links, will check them out.

Far more available at 20mm... In fact anything you could want or need is available.

The books are almost solely illustrated with my 20mm stuff.

I understand the very good reasons for using 20 mm, the problem is, the Empress stuff is really, really nice

Airfix now make 1/48 scale British vehicles...

Huey11 wrote:
Airfix now make 1/48 scale British vehicles...

I thought 1/48 was slightly larger than 28mm?

Anyway, I have definitely decided to go 28mm - yes, I know it is more expensive but I like the look and range that Empress produce. Another question - who would you recommend for decent and affordable generic middle- eastern buildings/terrain? The sites I have been looking at so far are:

http://www.colonialsteamboat.co.uk/products/products_buildings_middle_east_28MM.html

http://www.tablescape.co.uk/Catalogue/MiddleEastern/MiddleEasternRange.htm

I prefer the Tablescape Mediterranean range but I am not sure if it quite fits the middle-eastern aesthetic:

http://www.tablescape.co.uk/Catalogue/Mediterranean/MediterraneanRange.htm

Anyway, I could use a few more options! As usual, there are a bunch of US manufacturers but I fear shipping would be too dear.

In regards to scale, 28mm tends to vary from 1:64 to 1:48 depending on the maker. Vehicle wise, 1:48 should look okay (it may seem a bit disproportionate but military vehicles tend to be bigger than people would first assume. Except some Humvees, I am 6 foot and I can see pretty decently over the top of some of the models. Not sure which ones though...)

1/48th scales to 36mm.

As Washout says, some look ok, others dont.

Personally I'd go for 1/50th or 1/56th if you can like these;



http://www.imprintmodels.co.uk/Shop.aspx