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Anyone else see Wraithblades armed with Ghostaxe and forceshields becoming the new must-have melee unit like TH/SS Termies? 32 points for a T6 guy with a S7 AP2 weapons and 3+ and 4++ sounds like it could steam roll over many things...

I havent seen the new codex but wow! That does sound like a beatstick from eldar hell

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Anyone else see Wraithblades armed with Ghostaxe and forceshields becoming the new must-have melee unit like TH/SS Termies? 32 points for a T6 guy with a S7 AP2 weapons and 3+ and 4++ sounds like it could steam roll over many things...

Is there any speed modifier, slower or faster?

Delivery system remains to be seen.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Anyone else see Wraithblades armed with Ghostaxe and forceshields becoming the new must-have melee unit like TH/SS Termies? 32 points for a T6 guy with a S7 AP2 weapons and 3+ and 4++ sounds like it could steam roll over many things...

Is there any speed modifier, slower or faster?

Delivery system remains to be seen.

I have the codex in front of me right now. Says they can take a Wave Serpent for a transport, limits them to 6 models (they're bulky) but that should be more than enough for most things.

I wouldn't get too excited. They might be decent, but 3+/4++ is a huge step down from 2+/3++ against both volume of fire spam and dedicated anti-TEQ weapons.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Anyone else see Wraithblades armed with Ghostaxe and forceshields becoming the new must-have melee unit like TH/SS Termies? 32 points for a T6 guy with a S7 AP2 weapons and 3+ and 4++ sounds like it could steam roll over many things...

This unit strikes me as potentially very strong, especially when joined by a Spiritseer for a potential 2+ armor save. Toughness 6 also means they are much better than Terminators against volume of fire from strength 4 weapons, which are very common. However, the Wraithblades also have a lot of weaknesses-- poisoned weapons, snipers, etc. being the most obvious. I think these guys are likely going to prove a powerful but not overpowered option.

 Peregrine wrote:
I wouldn't get too excited. They might be decent, but 3+/4++ is a huge step down from 2+/3++ against both volume of fire spam and dedicated anti-TEQ weapons.

Wouldn't T6 put them equal to T4 termies in terms of fire spam survivability?

They are nice, but slow and dont really throw out alot of attacks, so unless you aiming to smash a small unit apart, they dont do a great deal.
However, if you want to chew through units then i guess harlies or scorps are there for that.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Anyone else see Wraithblades armed with Ghostaxe and forceshields becoming the new must-have melee unit like TH/SS Termies? 32 points for a T6 guy with a S7 AP2 weapons and 3+ and 4++ sounds like it could steam roll over many things...

Is there any speed modifier, slower or faster?

Delivery system remains to be seen.

Are these axes unwieldy? Because if they aren't, then I can see them as potentially useful (what is a WB's initiative?). But, at S7, you're not instagibing MEQ dudes with multiple wounds.

I think the Ghostsword option is the better one. It kills all GEQ and MEQ, and give them a Spiritseer with Conceal and they will get a 3++ save vs shooting most of the time. They can stand toe to toe with most of the hardier CC squads that aren't 2+ saves (Lychguard, Incubi). They get beat up by Terminators and MCs, and that's pretty much it.

5 ghost axe/ shield dudes and a spiritseer in a waveserpent. (Spirit seer rolls twice on war making one power conceal what other power does he get? hopefully the +1 armor!!)

Conceal the serpent so its 3+ cover as it crosses the board on top of its serpent shield making pens glances on 2+, they will get where they need to be. Want them to assault turn 2? give them star engines for 24" flat out with a 2+ cover save from conceal.

Theorius wrote:
Conceal the serpent so its 3+ cover as it crosses the board on top of its serpent shield making pens glances on 2+, they will get where they need to be. Want them to assault turn 2? give them star engines for 24" flat out with a 2+ cover save from conceal.

Conceal targets the psyker, meaning you can't use it on the Waveserpent.

erfunk wrote:

Theorius wrote:
Conceal the serpent so its 3+ cover as it crosses the board on top of its serpent shield making pens glances on 2+, they will get where they need to be. Want them to assault turn 2? give them star engines for 24" flat out with a 2+ cover save from conceal.

Conceal targets the psyker, meaning you can't use it on the Waveserpent.

duh, I brain farted that one....still 3+ cover with holo fields.

Theorius wrote:
5 ghost axe/ shield dudes and a spiritseer in a waveserpent. (Spirit seer rolls twice on war making one power conceal what other power does he get? hopefully the +1 armor!!)

Conceal the serpent so its 3+ cover as it crosses the board on top of its serpent shield making pens glances on 2+, they will get where they need to be. Want them to assault turn 2? give them star engines for 24" flat out with a 2+ cover save from conceal.

The Conceal mistake has already been covered, but there's no way you Assault that far on turn 2, Star Engines or no. Wave Serpents aren't Assault Vehicles or Open-Topped, so if you disembark you can't assault. If you want to Assault turn 2 you'll have to disembark turn 1, and that means you'll only be getting a 6" boost to your movement because of the Disembarking rules.

Chrysis wrote:

Theorius wrote:
5 ghost axe/ shield dudes and a spiritseer in a waveserpent. (Spirit seer rolls twice on war making one power conceal what other power does he get? hopefully the +1 armor!!)

Conceal the serpent so its 3+ cover as it crosses the board on top of its serpent shield making pens glances on 2+, they will get where they need to be. Want them to assault turn 2? give them star engines for 24" flat out with a 2+ cover save from conceal.

The Conceal mistake has already been covered, but there's no way you Assault that far on turn 2, Star Engines or no. Wave Serpents aren't Assault Vehicles or Open-Topped, so if you disembark you can't assault. If you want to Assault turn 2 you'll have to disembark turn 1, and that means you'll only be getting a 6" boost to your movement because of the Disembarking rules.

good grief I had to go re-read vehicles and assault, been a tau player for to many years.

I cant believe they cant even assault if the vehicle was stationary, that supremely sucks for assaulty armies......(mind blown)

So as far as a unit can get in turn 1 to assault is be in a vehicle move 6" deploy out 6" then run, so they pick up another 6"......or they are not assaulting till turn 3.

No star engines needed then!

Hence why I don't see them being used as a melee unit except in a counterattacking role to shove people off objectives. As it is the rules for vehicles and disembarking seem to punish trying to get assaulty units upfield via transport. I'll probably be using them with the stock w cannon.

think about the 10 man flamer wraıthguard unıt wıth the ınfıltrate dude.

That's a unit that will fry sth if you start first.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
think about the 10 man flamer wraıthguard unıt wıth the ınfıltrate dude.

That's a unit that will fry sth if you start first.

That's a shedload of points in a unit that can only target one unit with those flamers. 5 is more realistic...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I wouldn't get too excited. They might be decent, but 3+/4++ is a huge step down from 2+/3++ against both volume of fire spam and dedicated anti-TEQ weapons.

Wouldn't T6 put them equal to T4 termies in terms of fire spam survivability?

No. A good terminator assault will do it's job and kill its target, without getting crazy spammed. The spam comes afterwards, and that's spam that's usually focusing on the large LR/LRC/LRR that's wreaking havoc in their lines.

Considering that both units are trucking up to a point in a safety box, to ensure maximum delivery, we need to look at the two forces side by side.

36 points for low initiative S7 AP2 with 3+/4++ T6
vs.
40 points for low initiative S8, AP2, concussive, with 2+/3++ T4

That's 4 points more for one more strength, one more armor save, and one more invuln save point, and 2 less strength.

The Termies come ahead in my book

 Hashbeth wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I wouldn't get too excited. They might be decent, but 3+/4++ is a huge step down from 2+/3++ against both volume of fire spam and dedicated anti-TEQ weapons.

Wouldn't T6 put them equal to T4 termies in terms of fire spam survivability?

No. A good terminator assault will do it's job and kill its target, without getting crazy spammed. The spam comes afterwards, and that's spam that's usually focusing on the large LR/LRC/LRR that's wreaking havoc in their lines.

Considering that both units are trucking up to a point in a safety box, to ensure maximum delivery, we need to look at the two forces side by side.

36 points for low initiative S7 AP2 with 3+/4++ T6
vs.
40 points for low initiative S8, AP2, concussive, with 2+/3++ T4

That's 4 points more for one more strength, one more armor save, and one more invuln save point, and 2 less strength.

The Termies come ahead in my book

Wraithblades are only 32 points each.

 Hashbeth wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I wouldn't get too excited. They might be decent, but 3+/4++ is a huge step down from 2+/3++ against both volume of fire spam and dedicated anti-TEQ weapons.

Wouldn't T6 put them equal to T4 termies in terms of fire spam survivability?

No. A good terminator assault will do it's job and kill its target, without getting crazy spammed. The spam comes afterwards, and that's spam that's usually focusing on the large LR/LRC/LRR that's wreaking havoc in their lines.

Considering that both units are trucking up to a point in a safety box, to ensure maximum delivery, we need to look at the two forces side by side.

36 points for low initiative S7 AP2 with 3+/4++ T6
vs.
40 points for low initiative S8, AP2, concussive, with 2+/3++ T4

That's 4 points more for one more strength, one more armor save, and one more invuln save point, and 2 less strength.

The Termies come ahead in my book

Keep in mind that only Vanilla have the 40 point TH/SS Termies. They have been going up in every codex ever since then. While a bit off tangent, I thought it would be worth a mention, since supposedly the SM codex is up next.


The Main problem I have with he Wraithblades is you only get two attacks with the Ghost Swords, and 1 with the Axe. 32 PPM really isn't that bad though, at the very least they can cause a disruption. They really aren't as good as TH/SS termies, but they are cheaper, and can handle most things in assault fairly well.

I see them as lychguard (which we know everyone is bringing), I would rather have the wraithguard over wraithblades. Use harleies or scorpions to assault (or use your wraithknight with wraithlord sized sword, muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) Sorry, I just got done reading the wraithknight thread, and I know how people feel about said unit and unit upgrade in particular.

CrimsonKing wrote:
I see them as lychguard (which we know everyone is bringing), I would rather have the wraithguard over wraithblades. Use harleies or scorpions to assault (or use your wraithknight with wraithlord sized sword, muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) Sorry, I just got done reading the wraithknight thread, and I know how people feel about said unit and unit upgrade in particular.

Well, they are 6PPM cheaper than Lychguard (11 if you count the sword and board), can be scoring. They also have Higher T and I than Lychguard, as well as the ability to get an Invul save at no additional cost. So, they do have quite a few advantages over Lychguard.

 Sasori wrote:

CrimsonKing wrote:
I see them as lychguard (which we know everyone is bringing), I would rather have the wraithguard over wraithblades. Use harleies or scorpions to assault (or use your wraithknight with wraithlord sized sword, muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) Sorry, I just got done reading the wraithknight thread, and I know how people feel about said unit and unit upgrade in particular.

Well, they are 6PPM cheaper than Lychguard (11 if you count the sword and board), can be scoring. They also have Higher T and I than Lychguard, as well as the ability to get an Invul save at no additional cost. So, they do have quite a few advantages over Lychguard.

True, I'll not disagree with you, but I feel like they don't have enough attacks, or I would just shoot at whatever you would assault them with, and use harlies or scorpions to assault everything else.

CrimsonKing wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

CrimsonKing wrote:
I see them as lychguard (which we know everyone is bringing), I would rather have the wraithguard over wraithblades. Use harleies or scorpions to assault (or use your wraithknight with wraithlord sized sword, muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) Sorry, I just got done reading the wraithknight thread, and I know how people feel about said unit and unit upgrade in particular.

Well, they are 6PPM cheaper than Lychguard (11 if you count the sword and board), can be scoring. They also have Higher T and I than Lychguard, as well as the ability to get an Invul save at no additional cost. So, they do have quite a few advantages over Lychguard.

True, I'll not disagree with you, but I feel like they don't have enough attacks, or I would just shoot at whatever you would assault them with, and use harlies or scorpions to assault everything else.

I'm personally on the fence about them. The Number of attacks is their biggest drawback, but being scoring is pretty huge as well.

 Sasori wrote:

CrimsonKing wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

CrimsonKing wrote:
I see them as lychguard (which we know everyone is bringing), I would rather have the wraithguard over wraithblades. Use harleies or scorpions to assault (or use your wraithknight with wraithlord sized sword, muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) Sorry, I just got done reading the wraithknight thread, and I know how people feel about said unit and unit upgrade in particular.

Well, they are 6PPM cheaper than Lychguard (11 if you count the sword and board), can be scoring. They also have Higher T and I than Lychguard, as well as the ability to get an Invul save at no additional cost. So, they do have quite a few advantages over Lychguard.

True, I'll not disagree with you, but I feel like they don't have enough attacks, or I would just shoot at whatever you would assault them with, and use harlies or scorpions to assault everything else.

I'm personally on the fence about them. The Number of attacks is their biggest drawback, but being scoring is pretty huge as well.

A unit of ten Wraithblades with GA/FS fortuned by a Farseer would IMO be all but impossible to remove from an objective...

I guess I didn't think about the scoring part. They have durability (which for eldar is great).