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I apologize if this has been answered I searched. Does the skaen doom wheel only shoot its lightning through its front arc? Or can it be 360 around the model for purposes of closest unit? Thnx for any help.

Shooting is front arc unless given an exception, from memory - so does it have an exception?

Although, assumingnitbis a lone model, it may be forced to turn towards the closest unit (ie if the rule says shoot the closst unit rather than "shoot the closest unit in your front arc").

Each warp lightning bolt has a 18" range and will strike the nearest unit (friend of foe) regardless of terrain and line of sight
(if the first bolt kills the closest unit, then work out the second closest, etc)
So you can shoot lightning out your a**!

LOS != Arc of Sight. Two entirely different concepts.

Yes Nosferatu, and The Lightning bolts are not a regular shooting attack/magic missile nor do they follow the regular shooting rules
It is measured from the Doomwheel, but it might as well be thunderbolts striking down from the sky as far as rules are concerned
The Skaven book is full of toys and rules that weren't really translated in 8th edition rules (ie. you can "target" the Scorch spell at an enemy unit in CC for instance)

Shooting 360 at closest unit is how we played it the rules were not that clear thnx for the help any other insight is always welcome.
thank you.

OK, so prove that it has an exception to the shooting rules requiring you to shoot inside your front arc. Page and graph fgrom the skaven book / FAQ will be sufficient, thanks

I'm aware of some of the discrepancies, however in Scorch case that is actually as case of a change in restriction based on type, as opposed to here where there is a NEW restriction in place

No need for that tone Nosferatu I don't want that to degenerate into a mud brawling contest

I base my reasoning on the fact that every shooting weapon in the Skaven arsenal is very clear on how it is shooting, that is:
WLC = treated as a cannon
PWM = treated as a stone thrower
WFT = treated as a Fire thrower
Ratling = very specifically says it can turn on the spot, that you have to nominate a visible target
Jezzails/globadiers = direct references to the BRB for shooting rules

Doomwheel = full of exceptions:
hitting units in CC
"shooting" while in CC
ignores LOS and terrain
Is not specifically a shooting attack / magic missile + Doesn't have a weapon profile

Also I dug up the 7th edition BRB (to which those rules were linked), where a unit can see what is in his "line of sight" defined by his front arc minus obstructions
Agreed it might need an FAQ, but it is clearly designed as shooting all around

There was no tone - it was asking you to back up your argument with rules.

There is a split in 8th edition between LOS and Arc of Sight. Ignoring one does NOT allow you to ignore the other.

It is frankly irrelevant, from a rules perspective, what it was designed as. Currently it may only shoot in its front arc, as it has no exception to the rules stating otherwise.

Except that it is a lone model, so can freely swivel.

What does being able to wheel have to do with shooting?

That they don't have a set front arc in the way which units do.

No, they have a set front arc, but can pivot during moving as they wish.

That does not alter that WHEN it shoots, it only shoots in its front arc.

Interesting. I assumed that war machines swivelling was just a reiteration of this rule, but do you think it is seperate?

Correct.

The free pivots for lone models is during moves.

Niteware wrote:
Interesting. I assumed that war machines swivelling was just a reiteration of this rule, but do you think it is seperate?

Yes, because the rules for warmachines has a specific allowance to pivot while shooting. There is NO SUCH allowance in the rules for lone models. Ergo, while shooting, they are unable to pivot.

Hmmm. So for the OP, does the doom wheel say nearest legal target or nearest unit? It seems to break just about every rule for shooting already...

Nearest target has to be nearest legal target, by definition. It isnt giving you specific permission to break the requirement to fire within Arc of Sight, so you have to fire within Arc of Sight.

Niteware wrote:
Hmmm. So for the OP, does the doom wheel say nearest legal target or nearest unit?

Just to clarify, are you asking if the rules allow the targeting of an illegal target?
How could that possibly be a rule?

No, I was asking if it said the closest unit (which does imply that it could be 360º) or if it used some other language to indicate targets.

Given that this is a unique unit type, assuming that it follows standard rules seems like a bit of a jump. Especially since it can target friends and units in cc.

If it says "the closest unit", what gives you the right to add caveats?

The fact you are not given any permission to ignore the normal requirements?

You only get to do things when given permission. Find permission to targt an illegal target, i.e. one outside your front arc. Page and para will suffice

Counter: if it says nearest unit, show where that is restricted ie where it says the nearest target in your front arc.

Niteware wrote:
Counter: if it says nearest unit, show where that is restricted ie where it says the nearest target in your front arc.

The doom wheel is the closest unit to the doom wheel. It always shoots itself.

-Matt

What if the weapon is not on its front arc of sight though?
Wheel has 3.
Both sides and one at the front.

Would be nice if this was the case though and could only shoot forwards, as i wouldnt need a suicide unit beside it to protect my stormvermin.

Niteware wrote:
Counter: if it says nearest unit, show where that is restricted ie where it says the nearest target in your front arc.

Your counter ignores jhow the rules actually work

You have to have permission to do anything, and in order to override a restriction you must have specific permission to do so. You are only given permission to fire at units in your front arc Find permission, explicit, to fire at units NOT in your front arc. You can only shoot at unit you have LOS to - you HAVE specific permission to override that requirement.

So your counter doesnt hold, as it gives no permission to fire at units outside front arc. You need to find this permission. Failure to do so means you have to follow the rules for shooting as normal.

Interesting discussion so as a newer player it seems the Doom wheel must shoot in its front arc only? The wording for who it shoots at is nearest unit that makes no sense it would shoot itself? Really fairly new to the game but thnx for the help. I was hoping that some skaven players would chime in how they handle it :}

I am a skaven player, I was just pointing out the current rules that cover this

If you then decide to alter the rules that is fine, you just need to know that not everyone would play that way

Being "limited" to the forward arc is generally highly beneficial
Not that you'd care about frying a few rats/slaves, but you'd care about wasting those precious zzzaps!

As many things in the Skaven armybook, the rules are not that clear cut and there's a lot of shady areas

Meh, I would argue the rules ARE clearcut; if you JUST read 8th edition, and the separation of arc from LOS, then without kniwing what you USED to be able to do you would always come to the current RAW conclusion - you just Zzap to the front.

Every edition change brings these questions, especially such an overhaul as 7th to 8th. Similar query with the new Eldar codex with people asking if taking two weapons the same on a wraithlord makes them Twin Linked, whcih was a rule only in the old codex. Without that fore knowledge you would have no reason to think two weapons the same means twin linked.