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Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Yet again, Missouri manages to make me ashamed of living here.

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-remains-behind-bars-2m-bond-posted-071009002.html

Spoiler:
WARRENSBURG, Mo. (AP) — Ziyad Abid was a Missouri college student aspiring to become a pilot like his father back home in Saudi Arabia when he was accused of paying his roommate to kill a local bar owner. The judge set bond at $2 million, completely out of reach for his family — but not for the Saudi government.

The money came in. Yet two months later, Abid remains jailed because a judge is refusing to let him out. The judge acknowledged he may be violating the Missouri Constitution, which allows suspects to be held without bond only in capital murder cases.

But the judge won't budge. Or explain why.

Abid's lawyers, including a former U.S. attorney for Missouri, have asked a state appeals court to release Abid and remove Circuit Judge Michael Wagner from the case, arguing that he's biased in part by Abid's nationality. The court has given Wagner until Monday to respond.

Abid was studying aviation at the University of Central Missouri in Warrensburg when his roommate, Reginald Singletary Jr., was accused of killing popular bar owner Blaine Whitworth in September. Singletary admitted fatally shooting Whitworth in the bar owner's driveway but claimed Abid paid him to do it, according to court documents.

Prosecutors haven't disclosed an alleged motive, but defense attorneys said Abid had no personal connection to Whitworth and that Singletary had been fired as the bar's bouncer.

"There's no indication whatsoever this case has anything to do with any kind of subversive activity or terrorism," said defense attorney John Osgood, the former federal prosecutor. "This is a plain, old simple
murder of a bar owner done by a bouncer who was fired a week before. My client just happened to be his roommate."

Both men are charged with first-degree murder, but not capital murder, and armed criminal action. If convicted, they could face up to life in prison.

Johnson County prosecutor Lynn Stoppy declined to comment on case details, but said she agreed with a previous judge's ruling that Abid should be granted bond. An attorney for Singletary, who remains jailed on $1 million bond, declined comment.

Wagner hasn't returned messages from The Associated Press.

David Mitchell, a professor at the University of Missouri School of Law, agreed that Wagner may have "an unconscious bias that might be acting out" about Abid's nationality. He said the judge likely fears Abid could flee ahead of his Aug. 20 trial, noting that the involvement of the Saudi government, a U.S ally, is especially unusual and has increased that speculation.

"Imagine if this judge grants bail and this person flees. Think of the ramifications," Mitchell said.

Wagner's predecessor in the case, Johnson County Circuit Judge Jacqueline Cook, initially denied bond in November because she feared Abid would flee or be deported. She said Abid's revoked student visa — the result of him being expelled from school — could open the door for the government to deport him ahead of trial.

But two weeks later, she acknowledged Missouri's constitution required bond and set it at $2 million. That same day, she retired — and handed the case to Wagner.

David A. Martin, a law professor at the University of Virginia School of Law who specializes in immigration issues, said the judge's concerns weren't unfounded.

"There have been instances of this kind in the past where someone who bonded out from a criminal proceeding moved quickly through the deportation proceeding and was deported before local law enforcement knew about it," Martin said. "I know ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) was working on better communication in that kind of setting, but these instances have occurred."

That's what frightens the slain bar owner's mother. Diane Whitworth said she's afraid Abid would ask to be deported if he's released from jail.

"We understand nothing we can do will bring our son back," she told the AP. "It isn't just about one person. It's about anyone who comes to the U.S. to avail themselves of our educational system and commits a crime. They have the potential luxury of being deported before anything happens."

An ICE spokesman declined comment. But one of Abid's attorneys, Pat Peters, insisted the government rarely deports foreigners in such cases.

Peters also said Abid was expelled because he couldn't attend classes while in jail. But the university's associate provost, Corey Bowman, said Abid had violated school policies "not directly related" to his arrest. Bowman said he couldn't release details, citing privacy laws.

Still, defense attorneys insist Abid isn't going anywhere, arguing that prosecutors' case won't hold up. In a recent court motion, they said Singletary gave investigators several stories — including saying a Kansas City gang put him up to the killing, then agreeing with interrogators that the mafia made him do it — before saying Abid was involved.

"While there is overwhelming evidence that Singletary killed Whitworth, there is no corroborating or physical evidence suggesting Abid was involved: no DNA, no fingerprints, nothing. There is only the statement of confessed murderer Singletary," the attorneys wrote.

In unsuccessfully trying to lower his bond, Abid's attorneys argued it would bankrupt his family to post the 10 percent — or $200,000 — that bond companies require before posting bail.

Abid's father, Saudi Airlines pilot Tariq Abid, eventually persuaded the Saudi government to post the $2 million bond, according to court records.

The younger Abid was equipped with an electronic monitoring device on April 2. His family paid $2,500 for the device and pays $15 per day to have someone monitor it, even though Abid is in jail, his attorneys said.

During a hearing April 5, Wagner told Peters the court would be satisfied if $2 million were deposited in its bank account. The money was wired that day, according to court documents. But a few days later, Wagner reversed himself.

Peters confronted him, according to court transcripts, saying: "I just want to make sure I heard this court just say that despite the law, despite Judge Cook's order, despite the representations by the prosecutor and defense counsel, you have just said 'no bond' in this case."

"That is correct, counsel," Wagner said, according to the transcript.

It's not unusual for the Saudi government to help its citizens who get into trouble in the U.S., but Wagner's response is far from the norm, said John Leger, an attorney for the Saudi government who handles legal matters for the Saudi consulate overseeing Missouri and 15 other U.S. states.

"I've been doing this over 40 years, and I've never seen this," Leger said, estimating that about 47,000 Saudi students are in the U.S.

"It's not whether (Abid) deserves it or does not, or if he's guilty or not guilty," he said. "The rules say he's entitled to a bond."

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
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Elephant Graveyard

That is horrendous...

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The Great State of Texas

He's a flight risk. Suck it.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

Would that prevent him from using a boat? What about private airplanes?

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight




Philly

Clearly this guy is a flight risk. However, that being said, bail should not have been set at all if that is the case.

"It's bigger then all of us. Winston's in the air duct with a badger." 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 purplefood wrote:
Would that prevent him from using a boat? What about private airplanes?


Flight as in flee, not as in commercial flight. The odds that he will go on the run are apparently enough to keep him in jail.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

Yep, flight risk. Gak happens when you're accused of murder and look like you might haul donkey out of the country.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

Shouldn't flight risk determine eligibility for bail and the level of bail if eligible?


If he made the bail set by the judge, you let him go. That is what bail is for.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Cortez667 wrote:
Clearly this guy is a flight risk. However, that being said, bail should not have been set at all if that is the case.


Bail can be changed or eliminated. He should do that. Then, at the hearing, he should throw barbeque at everyone in front of him shouting "ASK ME WHAT FAHRVERGUGEN MEANS YOU ERS!!! I KNOW! I KNOWWWW!!!!!" Then he should do the Hustle as he walks away from the bench.

I'd pay good money to see that.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 CptJake wrote:
Shouldn't flight risk determine eligibility for bail and the level of bail if eligible?


It can be, but later new information can come to light to change that, or get it revoked.

 CptJake wrote:
If he made the bail set by the judge, you let him go. That is what bail is for.


Unless of course after they got the bail they found out he had multiple passports, a plane/boat/car under an assumed name, or any other issue, at which time they can revoke it. Now they should give the bail back, unless there are hearings still to determine if he should be granted it, in which case they would hold the money until it is decided.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Ahtman wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
Shouldn't flight risk determine eligibility for bail and the level of bail if eligible?


It can be, but later new information can come to light to change that, or get it revoked.

 CptJake wrote:
If he made the bail set by the judge, you let him go. That is what bail is for.


Unless of course after they got the bail they found out he had multiple passports, a plane/boat/car under an assumed name, or any other issue, at which time they can revoke it. Now they should give the bail back, unless there are hearings still to determine if he should be granted it, in which case they would hold the money until it is decided.


The article gives no indication any of the scenarios you posed are taking place, and hypothetical scenarios don't help justify keeping a specific individual incarcerated. The gov't is overstepping its authority. It needs to do what is right, let the dude go or show cause to revoke bail eligibility. The judge acknowledged he may be violating the Missouri Constitution, he should be hammered.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Ahtman wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
Shouldn't flight risk determine eligibility for bail and the level of bail if eligible?


It can be, but later new information can come to light to change that, or get it revoked.

 CptJake wrote:
If he made the bail set by the judge, you let him go. That is what bail is for.


Unless of course after they got the bail they found out he had multiple passports, a plane/boat/car under an assumed name, or any other issue, at which time they can revoke it. Now they should give the bail back, unless there are hearings still to determine if he should be granted it, in which case they would hold the money until it is decided.


These are true.
I'd like to amend my earlier post as well. In addition to doing the Hustle, I'm think the judge needs to leave the courtroom only after having successfully completed The Electric Slide.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Yep, flight risk. Gak happens when you're accused of murder and look like you might haul donkey out of the country.

Especially when your government pays your bail, and it appears that your father may be well connected

 
   
Made in us
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USA

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Yet again, Missouri manages to make me ashamed of living here.


I hear its quite Missoriable. I know I'm terrible

   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

The story that got him accused in the first place does look incredibly weak...

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

If he's a flight risk, and that is why he is being denied release, then at least say so. At the very least, remove the monitoring device and refund the family for it.

I don't know enough about the exact in and outs of the Missouri constitution, but if it says he must be released after paying bail, then release him, but you can't just arbitrarily pick and choose when to follow the law. Don't like it? Work to change the law.

The case against him does sound weak as hell, but then again, we are mostly being given the defense attorney's story, so yeah...that's the picture he's going to paint.


11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

I would think that your country posting a 2 million dollar bail on your half would reasonably define 'flight risk' in any court of law.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

There's gotta be more to the story than this...

We'll see.

Also, the judge as mucho descretion in regards to bail/release process.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
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Member of the Ethereal Council






 Frazzled wrote:
He's a flight risk. Suck it.

IF he was a flight risk, Remand would have been used.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
He's a flight risk. Suck it.

IF he was a flight risk, Remand would have been used.


I think that was the point of the $2mm bail, and now refusing to release him.

Hustle, Electric Glide, and a maybe a good moonwalk.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

If the judge returns the bail and states the reason is that he is a flight risk, then okay.

If the judge does not return the money and does not release him, he should no longer be a judge.

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

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MN (Currently in WY)

If he is a flight risk, why doesn't the judge just say, "I'm not releasing him because he is a flight risk." Instead, he isn;t saying anything about it.

Wierd.

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The Great State of Texas

 Easy E wrote:
If he is a flight risk, why doesn't the judge just say, "I'm not releasing him because he is a flight risk." Instead, he isn;t saying anything about it.

Wierd.


This is true. Proper motions will be made and the judge will have to do something or a higher court will do it for him.

I still wan to see the electric boogaloo.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Frazzled wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
He's a flight risk. Suck it.

IF he was a flight risk, Remand would have been used.


I think that was the point of the $2mm bail, and now refusing to release him.

Hustle, Electric Glide, and a maybe a good moonwalk.

So, Set bail for the intent of him not being able to pay it, OK.
Have it paid, go back on the law.

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, Set bail for the intent of him not being able to pay it, OK.


We have no way of knowing that; speculation is not a strong foundation for an argument.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Have it paid, go back on the law.


There have been several reasons listed as to why this could have happened, none of them require the law to be broken.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Ahtman wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, Set bail for the intent of him not being able to pay it, OK.


We have no way of knowing that; speculation is not a strong foundation for an argument.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Have it paid, go back on the law.


There have been several reasons listed as to why this could have happened, none of them require the law to be broken.


So, your speculation is good and his is bad?

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 CptJake wrote:
So, your speculation is good and his is bad?



I never speculated, I just explained reasons why bail might be held. Saying it is illegal without knowing the facts is speculation, giving examples of reasons why an event could occur is not; I haven't proffered a theory as to why this may be going on. I don't know why they are holding the bail, and have not said otherwise.

Do you not see the difference between saying 'here are reasons why event x may happen' and 'this is why x has happened'?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/06 20:31:47


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
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Gitzbitah wrote:
I would think that your country posting a 2 million dollar bail on your half would reasonably define 'flight risk' in any court of law.


Nope. The fact that you made bail is inadmissible.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I'm speculating the guy was dating his daughter and thats just no bueno. Can we honestly say he can't do the boot skoot boogie in the middle of the courtroom before starting into the Hustle, complete with disco ball? Won't someone please think of the children?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Ahtman wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
So, your speculation is good and his is bad?



I never speculated, I just explained reasons why bail might be held. Saying it is illegal without knowing the facts is speculation, giving examples of reasons why an event could occur is not; I haven't proffered a theory as to why this may be going on. I don't know why they are holding the bail, and have not said otherwise.

Do you not see the difference between saying 'here are reasons why event x may happen' and 'this is why x has happened'?


The judge himself says he may be violating the state constitution according to the article. It may be speculation to state it is illegal when even the judge admits it maybe, but it is reasonable speculation for sure.

The judge acknowledged he may be violating the Missouri Constitution, which allows suspects to be held without bond only in capital murder cases.

But the judge won't budge. Or explain why.


On the other hand, you are speculating as to why the judge may be doing so.

It is not speculation to state that this guy is eligible for bail, this is not a capital case. I am pretty sure that if someone makes bail, the right thing to do is let them out or rescind the eligibility for bail and refund the bond. In this case the eligibility cannot be taken away. The rules are what they are. The judge is damned well supposed to follow them.


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
 
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