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Looking for help with some details for the list ideas I have. I don't want to be running spammed wraiths or flyers (although I do have 2 anni barges because I love the model too). So firstly here's the list:
HQ
Destroyer Lord (sw, mss) - 160
Obyron - 160
Royal Court (I know I can't get it with the above, see questions below)
Veiltek - 30
Stormtek - 35
Anni Barge - 90
Anni Barge - 90
Doomsday Ark - 175
= 1965
So my initial plan - fire platform from the barges, ark, and warriors. Everything else is fast moving. There are some outstanding things:
- How do I get my Royal Court?? Do I find points for Zahndrek, or drop Obyron, or something else?
- Best use of royal court?? This kind of depends on the next question - veiltek obviously with the deathmarks but depends on if I put them in the nightscythe if he gets the veil or not. Stormtek can go with the Lychguard or Immortals.
- Where do I put my nightscythe?? Option A) Deathmarks with despair tek. Option B) Lychguard with stormtek (this could mean its easier to drop Obyron as they'd still be mobile). Option C) Immortals with Stormtek.
I have lots of different hq models available, a monolith, 8 more warriors, triarch stalker, and more destoryers. I love wraiths but don't want to spam them. I've been looking into buying some spyders / tomb blades / more immortals or deathmarks / triarch prets.
Any help on those specific questions would be great, or any advice on the list! Thanks!
I think that you're doing fairly well with what you have to field, but the first thing that jumps out at me is how troop light you are at 2k; 5 immortals and 20 warriors on foot will die very quickly. You may not have any ghost arks, but they're a must have imo. In order for the immortal to be effective, I'd either put them in the nightscythe, or add 3-5 to the squad and give them a res orb, which is what I recommend, but if you're taking your deathmarks, they'd be most effective in the nightscythe.
Concerning Obyron, Obyron w/ lychguard is my favorite deathstar unit because of his veil, allowing him to deepstrike into the enemy's back field turn one. It's a really cool unit, but I wouldn't consider it ultra competitive because of how expensive it is and how unreliable and dangerous the scatter can be.
My verdict is that you drop Obyron, the lychguard, free up 360 points by doing so and purchase an Overlord w/ Orb to go with a larger immortal squad. So you net +240pts, enough to buy two ghost arks (230pts).
I'd rework the destroyer squad so that you're running either 2 or 3 heavy destroyers, this will give you ample long range high AP, which is something that a necron army could always use imo. Regular destroyers aren't bad, but if you're going to take a mixed squad, to me it makes sense to start with one or two HD's and then add regulars if you've got the points. Reg destroyers fulfill an anti-marine role, whereas HD's are for MC's, terminators and vehicles, so a mixed squad seems somewhat inefficient to me, not even considering how expensive (200-260pts) it can be.
Your Heavy Support looks solid. At 2k points you could potentially take more Anh. barges. I know you're trying to avoid the spam though.
Answering your questions:
I. You can obtain a royal court by switching out Obyron for an Overlord. Zahndrekh is a pretty wicked guy, and Obyron is just as wicked in CC, but maybe more effective in a different list. Like I said before, the lychguard with Obyron combo is good but pricey. Wraiths simply outclass lychguard. In more casual games, take the lychguard, because they're pretty cool regardless of how slow and unreliable they can be at times.
II. Despairtek w/ Deathmarks in a nightscythe gets a lot of love, although I've yet to try it myself. Putting them in a nightscythe makes their entry a lot more smooth. If you've got extra space in ghost arks, you can buy destruction crypteks and probably buy a solar pulse to help either give your jinking skimmers extra cover or deprive the enemy of cover before hitting him with the Doomsday cannon and HD's. I would drop the stormtek for a dude with a solar pulse. I'd put the stormtek w/ lychguard or immortals. For a take-all-comers list, solar pulses win over lightning fields, unless half your local meta is nids/orks.
III. Option A. Lychguard would be unable to charge after hopping out and would have to take some rapid fire in the face before doing anything. Putting immortals (give them gauss and fly them into rapid fire range) in the nightscythe with the stormtek would be a better idea if you had a second flyer; I think that the deathmarks should get the seat before anyone else in your list.
A lot of my advice revolves around units that you don't immediately have at hand. I hope I was able to provide some good info though.
quick question Magpie, but were the immortals 3x 5-man squads for objective sitting? If so, then fine, but if not and they were in one big blob, its illegal, as Immortals are squad cap 10.
Looking for help with some details for the list ideas I have. I don't want to be running spammed wraiths or flyers (although I do have 2 anni barges because I love the model too). So firstly here's the list:
HQ
Destroyer Lord (sw, mss) - 160
Obyron - 160
Royal Court (I know I can't get it with the above, see questions below)
Veiltek - 30
Stormtek - 35
Anni Barge - 90
Anni Barge - 90
Doomsday Ark - 175
= 1965
So my initial plan - fire platform from the barges, ark, and warriors. Everything else is fast moving. There are some outstanding things:
- How do I get my Royal Court?? Do I find points for Zahndrek, or drop Obyron, or something else?
- Best use of royal court?? This kind of depends on the next question - veiltek obviously with the deathmarks but depends on if I put them in the nightscythe if he gets the veil or not. Stormtek can go with the Lychguard or Immortals.
- Where do I put my nightscythe?? Option A) Deathmarks with despair tek. Option B) Lychguard with stormtek (this could mean its easier to drop Obyron as they'd still be mobile). Option C) Immortals with Stormtek.
I have lots of different hq models available, a monolith, 8 more warriors, triarch stalker, and more destoryers. I love wraiths but don't want to spam them. I've been looking into buying some spyders / tomb blades / more immortals or deathmarks / triarch prets.
Any help on those specific questions would be great, or any advice on the list! Thanks!
As for this list, it seems pretty solid. I would however, drop an annihilation Barge and shuffle a few more points around, get a TLHGC Stalker to mark targets for a twin linked S9AP1 Pieplate. If you are going to run 3 Destroyers, all must be heavy IMO, they will also benefit from the Stalker. This gives you some solid fire support between Stalker, DDA & Destroyers.
answers to your questions:
- to get an RC, I would drop the wraiths + DLord, as I dislike them, but if you want to keep them, id say drop Obyron for an Overlord with WS, SW, MSS, RO for less points (Oby = 165 yeah?) if you have enough points spare, add a few Immortals, you'll see why later
- Best use of Royal Court IMO is to tank shots towards your Warriors. for 180 points, you can get 2 Lords, both with Warscythes, ResOrbs and Semps. placed at the front of your units of Warriors, they vastly increase survivability of the unit.
- Option D, Overlord + Tesla Immortals to just drop into the enemy's DZ. Disembarking at 36" means snapshots. Tesla + Snapshots = fun. and 11 bodies with a 2+ save at the front can be *very hard to shift*
Hope this helped
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
Wow thanks everyone!! Awesome detailed replies! I will reply properly when I'm on my laptop instead of a small phone screen, but initial replies would be its great to see some love for the stalker, I love the model and thought it was a cool unit but have heard it take it's fair share of stick so left it out.
I should add this is for mainly friendly games, we are a competitive bunch, but I'm not planning on heading to any tournaments soon. Maybe a game or two at my local store but that's it.
Finally I think everyone's replies are showing how varied the codex can be without spamming wraiths and fliers. So many other options. Lychguard I know have their problems, but I would like to keep them in they're just too cool to drop.
Guess the main issue Ill look into will be troops. As I said I nearly bought more immortals yesterday, and I have another 8 warriors to bump both squads up to 14 each. I'm thinking 10 immortals and 28 warriors would substantially increase their staying power - if I can find the points!
Looking for help with some details for the list ideas I have. I don't want to be running spammed wraiths or flyers (although I do have 2 anni barges because I love the model too). So firstly here's the list:
HQ
Destroyer Lord (sw, mss) - 160
Obyron - 160
Royal Court (I know I can't get it with the above, see questions below)
Veiltek - 30
Stormtek - 35
Anni Barge - 90
Anni Barge - 90
Doomsday Ark - 175
= 1965
So my initial plan - fire platform from the barges, ark, and warriors. Everything else is fast moving. There are some outstanding things:
- How do I get my Royal Court?? Do I find points for Zahndrek, or drop Obyron, or something else?
- Best use of royal court?? This kind of depends on the next question - veiltek obviously with the deathmarks but depends on if I put them in the nightscythe if he gets the veil or not. Stormtek can go with the Lychguard or Immortals.
- Where do I put my nightscythe?? Option A) Deathmarks with despair tek. Option B) Lychguard with stormtek (this could mean its easier to drop Obyron as they'd still be mobile). Option C) Immortals with Stormtek.
I have lots of different hq models available, a monolith, 8 more warriors, triarch stalker, and more destoryers. I love wraiths but don't want to spam them. I've been looking into buying some spyders / tomb blades / more immortals or deathmarks / triarch prets.
Any help on those specific questions would be great, or any advice on the list! Thanks!
If you dont like spamming there are many optons to play. However if you wanna play competetive spamming is best way to get powerful list, wh40k works this way, you have to take a lot of things in order to have strong list, balanced lists provide targets for every enemy weaponry so basically thats it.
Sadly you gonna play foot infantry till first dragon, since you dont have any decent AA- 2 barges are far not enough. Dont field lychuards since they are crapy as hell, one of worst nec units at all. Deathmarks best use is in night scythe with despairtek, deep striking them is bad idea. 3 destroyers is bad idea, too expensive too vulnerable unit. I think it may be decent to use 3x3 h. destroyer but sadly one small unit composed of 2 dest and 1 h.dest is worthless.
I know that its a lot of critiscism, I play competetively so I have some notices, if its fun list so not problem at all. I just want to direct your thoughts on some weaker elements.
If you wanna buy some spyders then farm list may be option for you, its definately not spammy list.
Best uses of royal court are- stormscythe warriors with 1-2 stormteks tank-hunting, 1-2 despairteks with deathmarks for ap1 wounding on 2+ templates, chronometrontek with Imotekh, solartek with lance boosting your survivability. I think you gonna need more night scythes. Dont have to spam them but you have to have more mobile troops (GA is also a choice) and some AA, cause 2k pts means 2-3 drakes, a lot of scythes, vendettas, stormravens and so on.
The thing about spamming is that it depends on what level of points you are playing imho. At 1000pts, 3 anni barges I would say is spamming, but at 2000, its probably ok (call it redundancy ).
I'm trying to work a 1250 list which has praetorians in it, and am having the same problem (in that the destroyer lord is critical but then I can't take a RC). In the case of Praetorians, I reckon that the Destro Lord IS critical, but not in the case of a big unit of wraiths like you have.
So, when tweaking your list, don't consider the destro lord an auto take.
In particular, you have some units that NEED crytpeks or lords because otherwise they are expensive and will not be effective. In your list, Deathmarks are definitely in that category (5 plain deathmarks by themselves just don't do enough damage, particularly if the target is in cover). I also have Lychguard in that category. Lychguard are awesome when accompanying a OLord/Lord with orb, plus have a stormtek with lightning (ie for a mini deathstar. (BTW, I assume yours are warscythe? I prefer sword and board).
So, some suggestions:
1) If anything, there is not enough redundancy in your list at 2000 points. I know you don't want to Spam, so maybe set a limit at 2 of anything.
2) 2 groups of walking warriors doesn't work for me at 2000. You need to get some mobility in here because of the number of objective based games. Obyron MIGHT work, but that is a hell of a footprint (better than 20 walking warriors i suppose). If anything, I would switch it around. Have 3 x 5 warriors plus a blob of walking immortals.
3) Review your list. 3 Heavy destroyers? What do they contribute to your plan. what happens if they die early? Do this for each unit you have 1 of. Then ask "do i still want to play this because the model is cool!" - which is the real point here, but it is helpful to know what sort of damage you are doing to yourself .
4) Look for army wide buffs if you are taking 1 of anything. What I mean here is - The Destro Lord buffs the wraiths (possibly scarabs). So, 2 units. Zahndrekh USR's could benefit ANY unit AND is a perfect choice for a Lychguard bodyguard. So, you get better synergy.
Likewise, a Stalker will buff all the warrior squads, plus the destroyers AND adds a tough walker. Question is, for your revised attack plan, what happens if it dies early? Do you need redundancy (ie 2)?
In tweaking the list you posted, I would look hard at the Destroyers, the deathmarks, the Doomsday Ark and the Destro lord to see what each contributes. The reason for picking these units is because as it stands you don't have enough points to make them all work effectively (and the Doomsday ark is taking up a HS slot which Spyders would fit into nicely).
It would be helpful to know what units you REALLY want to have in the list. Also, are you ok with 2 of something? I know that the idea is to have fun, but getting wiped is not fun for you or a good game for your opponent.
hth
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/09 12:26:47
Thanks everyone! Thinking about everyone's advice I think I can tweak my list effectively.
Units I want to include:
Lychguard
Death & despair unit
Wraiths
Night scythe / doom scythe
Doomsday ark
Anni barge
I want to like destroyers a lot, but to be honest I could drop them and not feel aggrieved. Same with the scarabs.
Definitely thinking about dropping the destroyer lord. If I drop him, the scarabs, the destroyers, leaves me like 400pts to play with for an overlord (preferable named character like anrakry, trazyn, or zhandrek), get more troops and a proper royal court.
I do though like the idea of 3 heavy destroyers and a triatch stalker plus the ark. Good firepower potential.
It's tough there's so many units I would like to take! I don't have time to play too many games which is why I want a list that means I can use all the things I want to when I get chance to play.
Looking at the list of things you want to keep, you have 2 counter assault/assault units (Lychguard and Wraiths). Coincidentally, those units are going to chew up between 200-300 points each (once you factor in how you are going to move the lychguard around).
Of your 400 points, Zandrekh is 185, which leaves you 215. Another scythe (ie 1 for D&D, plus the one you already have for the Lychguard) leaves you 115. 2xDespairtek = 60, 2x Stormtek = 50) uses the rest.
Seems to fit (and you still have Obyron to move the immortals around).
Updated list using all the feedback. It has increased number of troops. Changes the destroyer unit slightly. I have dropped the d lord for zhandrek and dropped the scarabs. Planning on putting despairtek with death marks in the scythe. Obyron with the immortals and stormtek. Zhandrek with the lychguard. This leaves them immobile however so I'm wondering about using obyron to veil the lychguard and zahndrekh turn 1 to a decent spot, then turn 2 sending him back to join the immortals, and turn 3 setting them up, or vice versa... Any good?
Long term I'd like to get a second scythe. I'd also like to try out spiders and scarabs and also give the triatch another go. But for now I'm quite happy with this except the issues above:
I suggest that you trim a couple of warriors or immortal and put a Veil on the Despairtek. Then you can use the veil with the Deathmarks, give the scythe to Z and the Lych, then ghostwalk O and the immortals.
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
Ok so how about using the 85 points from 5 immortals for a veil tek and stormtek. I'd like obyron with the lychguard as they're there for combat and so is he, but then I'd also like zahndrekh there and that's a lot in one unit!
@ihatenids. - I'd love that, especially with the heavy destroyers in there and I love the stalker.... But I have no idea what I'd drop to fit it in :/!
its 165 points, so I would say drop enough of the Wraiths to make room, unless you want to run a full 6
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
If you break the warrior squads up into groups of 5, drop the immortals you'll have enough points. Or drop 5 immortals and 5 warriors. Then, drop a wraith for another storm or lanceteks, as having one of those helps with reanimation.
Ok so this last list has everything I want to include, but low troop numbers. Veil tek with the death marks. Obyron with immortals, and zahndrekh with lychguard in scythe. Thanks for all the advice everyone!
One suggestion : Given that you have dropped to 5 Immortals, I suggest you start Zandrekh and Oby together with the Lych on the table. Put the Deathmarks in the Scythe. (drop the veil).
Then, with the points from the veil, get another despairtek and put that with the Lych (you don't need a veil because you have Oby) because that gives you the AP1 flamer as CC defense.
Move the Lightning tek to the warrior blob of 10.
This will mean that you can use Z's buffs from Turn 1 (tankhunters or stealth could be useful), the warrior blob has an everliving cyptek in it (potential scoring cryptek) and you can get the Lych into assault Turn 2 guaranteed.
Sekhmet - Dynasty 4000pts 
Greenwing - 2000pts 
Deathguard - 1500pts 
Daemons of Nurgle - 1000pts 
~320pts 
Iron Hands - 12k 
The Shadewatch - 3k 
Cadmus Outriders - 4k 
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k 
).
.
: 2000pts