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Was going to start a 40k army because of its vast and amazing fluff/lore but the armies are a little too pricy for my taste. I checked out the Hordes tabletop and the units looks pretty cool. For those of you that played it, how are the rules, balance, and lore? is it good? And what other good tabletop would you recommend thats pretty good as in lore, balance, rules and of course cheaper than 40k. Thanks in advance!

The lore is mediocre but the rules are fantartic and most of the models are solid.

The Malifaux lore is pretty solid and that's another really great TTG. It is diceless and that doesn't appeal to all. It think its lore is better than Warmahordes.

Infinity has great rules and great models, but the lore is the worst of the 3.

I would refer you to the Warmachine/Hordes subforum for more information on those games. They are essentially the same game with some altered mechanics. I can highly recommend both.

Warmachine/Hordes has a tighter ruleset (in that it's less ambiguous) and the models do look fantastic if you like their style.

However, check out the prices closely - if you are to buy at retail you can end up spending just as much as a GW army. I suggest going used as the models seem to be dumped at 50% off starting (at least whenever I look).

 cincydooley wrote:
The lore is mediocre but the rules are fantartic and most of the models are solid.

The Malifaux lore is pretty solid and that's another really great TTG. It is diceless and that doesn't appeal to all. It think its lore is better than Warmahordes.

Infinity has great rules and great models, but the lore is the worst of the 3.

I was wondering what warmachine was since it was in the same site, i know its a tabletop game but does it take place in the same planet as hordes lorewise? or is it a completely different series, just made by the same creators like warcraft and starcraft?

Warmachine and Hordes are the same game, same setting, they just have a different mechanic that powers the army leader's magic and big beasties.

Hordes has one distinct advantage over warmachine.
IT has wolves/

 AduroT wrote:
Warmachine and Hordes are the same game, same setting, they just have a different mechanic that powers the army leader's magic and big beasties.

I think this always needs more emphasis, as in they're the same game and armies from Hordes can fight armies from Warmachine. The game(s?) are placed in the exact same setting and are designed to be used with each other.

 econtutor wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Warmachine and Hordes are the same game, same setting, they just have a different mechanic that powers the army leader's magic and big beasties.

I think this always needs more emphasis, as in they're the same game and armies from Hordes can fight armies from Warmachine. The game(s?) are placed in the exact same setting and are designed to be used with each other.

Yeah, Warmachine and Hordes are very much the same game. Anymore the distinction between the two only really exists as a means for how they do their release cycles.

I find that the Iron Kingdoms background (which Hordes is set in) in general is quite good. It has a decade of both RPG and tabletop writing behind it and is considerably more fleshed out than any game mentioned here except 40k. The 40k universe and the IK world are the only two universes mentioned here I'd consider playing RPGs in, for exampe - the others are just too patchy and/or limited in scope to work for me. The Hordes "part" of it - the wilderness areas of Immoren and the East - has a bit less meat on its bones than the human kingdoms, but we're still looking at hundreds of pages of background spread over the Hordes book, the faction books, the Monsternomicon books from the old RPG...and there is an RPG supplement covering the wilds coming up next year.

The rules are rock solid and probably the main cause of the game's popularity. Models is, as always, subject to individual taste. I like most of the Hordes factions except Legion stylistically.I strongly recommend the game.

Swan-of-War wrote:
Warmachine/Hordes has a tighter ruleset (in that it's less ambiguous) and the models do look fantastic if you like their style.

However, check out the prices closely - if you are to buy at retail you can end up spending just as much as a GW army. I suggest going used as the models seem to be dumped at 50% off starting (at least whenever I look).

Counter-point being that you need to buy less items (generally) to get a usable army.

The two-player starter boxes are great value if you compare them to buying the individual items at retail, particularly if you can find a friend to split it with.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I find that the Iron Kingdoms background (which Hordes is set in) in general is quite good. It has a decade of both RPG and tabletop writing behind it and is considerably more fleshed out than any game mentioned here except 40k. The 40k universe and the IK world are the only two universes mentioned here I'd consider playing RPGs in, for exampe - the others are just too patchy and/or limited in scope to work for me. The Hordes "part" of it - the wilderness areas of Immoren and the East - has a bit less meat on its bones than the human kingdoms, but we're still looking at hundreds of pages of background spread over the Hordes book, the faction books, the Monsternomicon books from the old RPG...and there is an RPG supplement covering the wilds coming up next year.

The rules are rock solid and probably the main cause of the game's popularity. Models is, as always, subject to individual taste. I like most of the Hordes factions except Legion stylistically.I strongly recommend the game.

Don't forget the novels and novellas. The Makeda short alone provides a pretty awesome look into how their society works, and their mindset.

I am...not too happy about any established universe fiction. I have not read anything that can be described as better than "readable" and a LOT of stuff that can best be described as "awful" to "burn before reading". And I've read all the recommended ones. My eyes bled and my brain hurt as fan favorites were revealed as barely competent hacks.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I am...not too happy about any established universe fiction. I have not read anything that can be described as better than "readable" and a LOT of stuff that can best be described as "awful" to "burn before reading". And I've read all the recommended ones. My eyes bled and my brain hurt as fan favorites were revealed as barely competent hacks.

well, you know how opinions are.... pretty sure lots of people would say the same thing about 40k's "fluff" and background. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, and that is why this is a hard question to answer. Rules for WM/H are absolutely rock solid compared to 40k and Fantasy, I think the fluff for either is OK, but that isn't really why I play a game... That is just me though!

I was talking about both the Black Library, Skull Island Expeditions, the Star Wars EU novels, etc etc. Established universe is really difficult to pull off and most good authors only do it early for funding reasons. Sadly.

Ya... Star Wars EU is pretty rough.... unfortunately. Could be some good stuff, but none of it really appeals to me either...

I can say that Makaeda's story and The Butcher's Origin are both snappy and interesting reads. No more predicatable than normal hollywood summer fare.

Not all the fluff can be considered be good. But IK is getting better all the time.

 gunslingerpro wrote:
No more predicatable than normal hollywood summer fare.

That is not exactly a recommendation But we are veering off topic.

 Laughing Man wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I find that the Iron Kingdoms backgroundo (which Hordes is set in) in general is quite good. It has a decade of both RPG and tabletop writing behind it and is considerably more fleshed out than any game mentioned here except 40k. The 40k universe and the IK world are the only two universes mentioned here I'd consider playing RPGs in, for exampe - the others are just too patchy and/or limited in scope to work for me. The Hordes "part" of it - the wilderness areas of Immoren and the East - has a bit less meat on its bones than the human kingdoms, but we're still looking at hundreds of pages of background spread over the Hordes book, the faction books, the Monsternomicon books from the old RPG...and there is an RPG supplement covering the wilds coming up next year.

The rules are rock solid and probably the main cause of the game's popularity. Models is, as always, subject to individual taste. I like most of the Hordes factions except Legion stylistically.I strongly recommend the game.

Don't forget the novels and novellas. The Makeda short alone provides a pretty awesome look into how their society works, and their mindset.

Yeah, skull island expeditions (the PP version of the Black Library) has only just started, but they're doing some terrific work with some great established authors.

In general, what I really love about the Warmahordes fluff is that it's a real moving storyline, and each new set of expansion books brings in new twists and turns in the storyline, and the story is interwoven between all the factions. You might read about some adventure involving one faction, and then later read about the ramifications of those actions from the point of view of another faction, who's response might help or hinder the plans of a third faction and so on. There's also a hell of a lot of background in the RPG books (and more to come) that really make it a quite vibrant world, and PPs head writer and Lore Keeper, Doug Seacat, is often seen chatting and answering questions on the PP forums about the minutiae of the settings, from the workings of warjacks to the life cycles of gobbers. Those sorts of things really help flesh out the world, and now with the new novellas they're putting out, the lore is only getting better.

 cincydooley wrote:
The lore is mediocre but the rules are fantartic and most of the models are solid.

The Malifaux lore is pretty solid and that's another really great TTG. It is diceless and that doesn't appeal to all. It think its lore is better than Warmahordes.

Infinity has great rules and great models, but the lore is the worst of the 3.

I can not comment on the first two(due to lack of knowledge), but I disagree with the last. The lore/fluff for Infinity is very good IMHO, as it has many references to the present world and explores the idea of a post earth humanity that is not centered around the "normal" power structure. As a IR student the idea of "American decline" which is what happens to the US in the lore, the whole balance of power between the various nations, the role of the O-12 being an analog to the UN, the outside threat of the EI, and the colonies all make the lore very attractive to me because I could write a paper about the politics of the Human sphere with what has been given to us. Plus there is some very strong fan fiction.

It also helps that the rules and models are solid.

 VampireDeLaVega wrote:
Was going to start a 40k army because of its vast and amazing fluff/lore but the armies are a little too pricy for my taste. I checked out the Hordes tabletop and the units looks pretty cool. For those of you that played it, how are the rules, balance, and lore? is it good? And what other good tabletop would you recommend thats pretty good as in lore, balance, rules and of course cheaper than 40k. Thanks in advance!

There's actually a decent amount of lore for Hordes. The Primal Rulebook plus the Forces of Hordes book for your favorite faction will provide a solid basis and then there's the stuff in every other faction book and the Warmachine books. I'm not a big "lore" person myself, but my friends who are really seem to like it.

The game play is rock solid, but it is a game, focused on game play and not on being a realistic simulation (much like 40k's approach). Where it differs from 40k is that the rules are really well tested and there won't really be too many surprise interactions that people haven't thought of before. Privateer also has a great rules questions section on their forum and I bet you could find pretty much any question you could think of already asked and answered. Usually it's the release of new models that creates new questions as well as new players not knowing exactly what terms to search for.

To get a full sized army together, it will definitely be cheaper than 40k. If you end up wanting to collect every model and built multiple armies, then you could theoretically spend infinite dollars on any miniature game though.

Another plus for Hordes is that releases come out in anthologies where every faction gets new stuff. Whatever faction you choose, every few months something will likely be released for it, so you don't have to wait years for a new codex like the way GW does it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you don't have a local store you are buying from, definitely check out:

Miniature Market
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/warmachine-hordes/hordes.html

The War Store
http://www.thewarstore.com/hordes.html

Discount Games Inc
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/

Discount Games Store
http://stores.ebay.com/Discount-Warhammer-Fantasy-and-40K/Discount-Hordes-/_i.html?_fsub=3688692016&_sid=104011766&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

MWG Store
http://stores.ebay.com/MWG-Store?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Also, check out Forward Kommander, it's a website you can use to build your army lists:
http://www.forwardkommander.com/

 Maddermax wrote:

Yeah, skull island expeditions (the PP version of the Black Library) has only just started, but they're doing some terrific work with some great established authors.

I think "terrific" is a bit much here, but it's not bad. I've thusfar read the Caine and Shaw/de Rossi novellas, and they were serviceable. I generally like CL Werner (especially his skaven writing) but his novella was pretty paint by numbers pulp. The two I have haven't been particularly compelling, but they're serviceable poolside reading, about on par with the Space Marine Battles series. I've got Dark Convergence downloaded, so we'll see if they fare any better in a full sized book. It's still early in the game for them, so it should only get better. But let's not go and throw out "terrific" just yet .

Besides, my main problem with their fluff is the lack of any consequence. I won't go any further for those that haven't read it, but it doesn't ever feel like anyone is in any actual peril. It's a bit too 80s comic book cheese, if you ask me.

Then there's the fact that I still hate that they named their publishing arm "Skull Island eXpeditions" which might possibly be the worst publishing company name ever, but that's another story.

As to Infinity: I mean, it's pretty generic Sci Fi... That's not to say its horrible, but it certainly isn't anything to write home about. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the story, but there's just not much 'oomph' in the books for me. Maybe it's better in Paradiso, but I haven't read through that.

 VampireDeLaVega wrote:
Was going to start a 40k army because of its vast and amazing fluff/lore but the armies are a little too pricy for my taste. I checked out the Hordes tabletop and the units looks pretty cool. For those of you that played it, how are the rules, balance, and lore? is it good? And what other good tabletop would you recommend thats pretty good as in lore, balance, rules and of course cheaper than 40k. Thanks in advance!

Bolt Action, RAFM's USX line, Helldorado, Superfigs, Pulp City, That Batman Arkham one looks cool, but you can't get it easily, I got some gear the other day from a game called 1650, Songs of Blades and Heroes, Warzone, Dr Who and 7TV's stuff from Crooked Dice, Blackwater Gulch, Golgo Island, .45 cal adventure, wargods of... looks cool, Clan War, Cutlass, Mordhiem, All Things Zombie, Empire of the Dead, War Lands, Secrets Of the Third Reich/ Incursion...

I'd recommend these.

Hordes/ Warmachine is cool, because the games and RPG interrelate and you can use them, but the prices are getting to be up into the suck stage on par with GW. They charge that because they can mentality keeps my from buying more of them then I want to. Good game, though. If you find your feel in there.