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What sort of builds would you recommend for the Stormraven?

Is there anything that you'd put in that you think would fill in for a weakness that vanilla SM have?

Also, can it carry Terminators?

Yes, but why would you put anything in a Stormraven? I have beat several GK lists because of their use of Stormraven cargo capacity. Marines need to reduce the amount that they present themselves piecemeal, not increase.

How would you equip it? Would you be better off with 2x goldfish instead rather than 1 turkey?

Depends on meta. Lots of AA makes the Stormtalon cry. It's also susceptible to Str 6 which I see a lot of with the new Eldar launch. The Raven doesn't care as much.

I prefer a Talon escorting a Raven in for saturation on interceptor fire and a big knockout punch.

Run the Raven naked. I prefer the AC versus PC as you can't shoot the PC at other flyers. Melta on the nose is too good to pass up, especially with PotMS.

Would you take AC over the Lascannon as well?

The Melta on the nose does look the best. I don't know why they value the missiles so much that it's much more expensive. Maybe a few points more, but at the current cost, considering it's replacing a twin-linked weapon?

It's in another thread, but I prefer the lascannon purely for anti-helldrake purposes. The lascannon has roughly double the chance from the AC to explode the helldrake.

If you are playing C:SM, you really don't care about the anti-infantry because you have thunderfire cannons. Also, I have just found the AC to be a very meh weapon. Maybe I've just been unlucky. I don't know. I don't use any ACs in my lists anymore.

I'll probably try and make mine modular, the turret weapon looks pretty exchangeable.

Is the Transport capacity a massive red-herring?

(Disclaimer, I don't own one, so this is just my thoughts, not experience)

How much of your army do you want to keep in reserve? Remember: the rest of your forces are going to be outnumbered and outgunned until the cavalry arrives. Loading up a SR is putting a lot of eggs in one basket, that might not show up until it's too late, or may eat a interceptor shot and blow up when it comes on the table. The most I would put in one at any reasonable point game would be a small unit of scouts for a late game objective grab.

As for guns, It's primary job is as an AA gunship, so weapons should be taken accordingly. I think the assault cannon/multi-melta is probably the best. The hurricane bolters might be worth it, but the price is getting quite large at that point. PotMS lets you shoot your AT gun at one target, and the rest at another, so you can actually get some use out of a diverse payload.

As with all weapon options on expensive models, magnets are your friend. And specific choices are impacted by your list overall.

The only problem with PotMS is that the whole thing has to be skyfire or not skyfire.

Martel732 wrote:
The only problem with PotMS is that the whole thing has to be skyfire or not skyfire.

True. That's probably only an issue in a 1 on 1 dogfight.

If there are multiple opposing flyers, you split between them.
If you are on ground attack, there should be plenty of targets to choose from.

But if there is just one flyer sharing the sky with you, you can either focus on it and snap-fire on ground targets, or vice versus. Probably downing the other flyer is going to be the priority, but situations vary. A hurricane bolter, or the TL-assault cannon should still be able to get some hits with snap firing, due to weight of fire.

I'm still using the lascannon atm because it has a better chance of making helldrakes go boom. That's really the only flier I care about. Nightscythes are usually too numberous for me to even consider shooting them.

With POTMS, could you use it to fire at full BS even when evading or shaken?

That's a good question.

I believe so

On its face, I don't see why not either.

I've been thinking of getting a raven for my Crimson Fists. While I understand the problems with transporting an assault unit of any worth in it (as all decent Marine assault units are expensive as feth), what about transporting a stripped down dreadnaught for close combat purposes? Drop it in and let it charge into a large unit of troops to try and tie them up (and thus reducing the enemy's firepower), or let it tear up a vehicle. If it gets shot down and destroyed, its not a huge loss at 100 points (unlike 200 for TH/SS termies) but if its delivered, it could be a pretty big disruption unit.

Of course, the 200 points spent on the raven might go down the toilet since it will be in hover mode....

The other problem with hauling anything meant for HTH combat is you could get stuck with the dilemma of getting into delivery position or getting into position to shoot down another flier. GW really dropped the ball when it comes to how flier rules interact with the Stormraven.

You never ever ever ever transport in a Stormraven. Then get shot down enough while zooming, 12 just isn't that great of armor. If you go down you lose the Stormraven AND what it is carrying, which is going to be a lot of points regardless of what is in it. Also, if you slow out of zooming, you lose several weapon shots.

As for loadout, I do BA so I tend to do Assault Cannon, Multimelta, and Hurricane Bolters.

Lascannon, multi-melta, extra armor and either run it empty or with 5 TH/SS terminators.

You can transport Ironclad dreads with it and use skies of fury to disembark it the same turn it comes from reserves. Ironclad has "move throught cover", so it automatically passes DT tests.

Or you can use it to carry any unit, and use skies of fury when flying near a drop pod or something else with locator beacon, so the unit doesnt scatter at all.

It CAN be used as a viable transport.

Lascannon/Multi Melta if you are running it as a anti-tank, Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, and Heavy Bolters if you are running it as anti-infantry.

I would suggest running it empty, though. The earliest charge you can get with it is Turn 3, and bad luck can bump that up to Turn 5.

If you are going to use a troop transport, you'd probably be better off with a 'Raider.

I guess the next question is why go through all that ? You are still looking at turn 3 assaults assuming perfect reserve rolls.

Is it ever worth transporting anything in one? Even a barebones Dreadnought?

Not really, because that's even more points you are reserving and then your stormraven has to move to get the dread into assault position. This might prohibit you from taking a shot at another flyer.

Bottom line: transports should transport and gunships should shoot stuff. Trying to roll them into one in this rules system makes the Stormraven kinda bad.

 Daba wrote:
Is it ever worth transporting anything in one? Even a barebones Dreadnought?

I think a 5 man scout squad could be worth it. Probably a shotgun/BP mix, maybe bolters. Mostly there for a late game objective grab. But not so many points that it will cripple you if they were lost/stuck in reserves all game.

Maybe for C:SM, but BA have too many point management issues. BA can't reserve 300+ points in a single vehicle.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Daba wrote:
Is it ever worth transporting anything in one? Even a barebones Dreadnought?

I think a 5 man scout squad could be worth it. Probably a shotgun/BP mix, maybe bolters. Mostly there for a late game objective grab. But not so many points that it will cripple you if they were lost/stuck in reserves all game.

What is BP?

I was thinking about scouts actually, as cheap scorers can come in handy.

Also, can't you drop the contents when it comes on via Skies of Fury?

 Daba wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Daba wrote:
Is it ever worth transporting anything in one? Even a barebones Dreadnought?

I think a 5 man scout squad could be worth it. Probably a shotgun/BP mix, maybe bolters. Mostly there for a late game objective grab. But not so many points that it will cripple you if they were lost/stuck in reserves all game.

What is BP?

I was thinking about scouts actually, as cheap scorers can come in handy.

Sorry, shotgun and Bolt Pistol/Close Combat weapon mix. That way you can take advantage of the assault transport if needed. Plus they look cool.

Ok, I might try that since I already have the models.

If using Terminators (or some Assault Marines or similar), if you see the enemy has no dedicated AA, would it be practical to load them onto the Land Gull as it is a HS choice, if their other deployment was to DS?

Is that still too risky?

Depends on the terrain, opponent, army, who goes first, mission, etc...

Off table assault troops are going to get a 3rd turn assault, at the earliest. Against someone castling up in a gun line, you might not do better then that anyway. But if someone is playing aggressively, using scouts and infiltrators, if you start them on the table, they might be in CC before your first turn is over.

Plus there are a number of things that can impact when reserves arrive. Some of these are on the warlord traits rolls, so could show up in any game.

My personal philosophy is to try to avoid reserving assault troops. If you deep strike, you spend the turn standing around, getting shot at and killed. Plus there is the whole "when will they show up?" issue. Always assume the dice are trying to kill you. I just hate having a large chunk of my army relying on a single die roll.

Risk management is always up to the individual. I play safe, middle of the road, TAC armies. While I very rarely get tabled or utterly crushed, I don't return the favor to others. I will never enjoy the sight of the dice falling just right as an ironclad and terminator assault squad charge out of a screaming stormraven and wipe my foes' deathstar off the table. But then, I will never have to endure the sight of said ~750 points eating a LC and being removed from the table with an interceptor shot, after finally deciding to show up on turn 5. YMMV