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It won't be long until I start showing up at my local game store to play with my Orks, but I have a dilemma I've learned in several small games with my Dark Angel friend I've played with. The Nob is getting challenged and just getting owned by AP3 powerweapons.

-Is this something I can expect to happen most of the time?

I have a few more boxes of boyz to put together and I was thinking about making two different cheap versions of Nobs to consider other tactics;

-The nob that goes with my Trukk Boyz gets a Big Shoota and a Bosspole. Strictly for trying to keep my shoota boyz in check on an objective shortly after they ram the Trukk into something.

-The nob with slugga/choppa and 'eavy armor that stands at the front of my slugga choppa boyz using LoS! to help maintain my front line during maybe the first turn of incoming fire.

I don't want to -not- accept a challenge, just wouldn't be Orky. Is the nob even worth the 15 points in cannon fodder roles as mentioned above? At least at 15 points I wouldn't curse Mork if for some strange reason these two types of nob actually made it to CC and then got challenged to death anyways. Would certainly feel like they've fulfilled a role for their cost and no honor is lost.

Personally I feel putting PK on a nob in a boy squad is asking for a precision shot to make you lose your points immediately. I like nob squads though.

Statistically a SM sarge needs to make 4 attacks to wound a nob with a power sword and a WS5+ character needs 3, most non suped up fighters will struggle to kill a Nob in a single round so you may just be getting unlucky.

Even a sarge with a Power Maul (The ideal weapon for the job) will be cutting it fine.

I say persevere, having a S8/9 AP2 weapon hidden in there is a handy trick to have up your sleeve, that or just ditch the Nob entirely.

 Dunklezahn wrote:
Statistically a SM sarge needs to make 4 attacks to wound a nob with a power sword and a WS5+ character needs 3, most non suped up fighters will struggle to kill a Nob in a single round so you may just be getting unlucky.

Nobz also have 2 wounds, so it would statistically take 8/6 attacks to kill him. if you've been consistently losing challenges vs sergeants, you've been incredibly unlucky. give it a few more games. PKs aren't always worth it, but I'd put them in your boyz squads you're sending up front.

There are two ways if dealing with this. The first is to refuse the challenge, which in some cases is worth it. The better but trickier way to do it is to position the nob so that after the charge pile in he is 5 inches from the boys in base contact with the enemy. This means he is considered not engaged in the combat, and he can't be challenged. Then when it gets to his initiative step move him up 3 inches so he is engaged, and go to town.

The Klaw can insta kill a bunch of multiwound guys so I still like it. In a pinch I take the Uge Choppa if I need to save points.

Its very tough to kill a nob in one round for a guy with a power sword.


A sergeant will have 3 attacks. Hitting on 4s, and wounding on 4s.

3(.5)(.5)=.75 wounds

It won't even cause a full wound on average. The marines would need to have charged for that.

Then the Nob attacks back.

4(.5)(5/6)=1.6666 wounds

Easily killing the sergeant. And only netting .66666 less combat resolution than he would have generated had he been able to swing on RnF.

Keep the nob. drop the klaw. give him a bosspole and be done with it.

if in a nob sqaud now. then thats where your klaws get nasty. same for warboss. warboss is a bit tougher and can probably live through that first round of combat. then he can squish the other character. good times.

Keep him in the back of the mob. If he isnt within 3" of the fight, hes not engaged and cannot be challenged. At I1 he piles in and then should be within 3".

 Rismonite wrote:
.

-The nob with slugga/choppa and 'eavy armor that stands at the front of my slugga choppa boyz using LoS! to help maintain my front line during maybe the first turn of incoming fire.

This is your problem!!!!!

If you don't want something to die, don't put it closest to the enemy's guns! A 4+ LoS! will not save him forever!

Put the Nob at the back (or at least in the middle of the squad). When you charge, he'll still be back there, at least 2.1 inches away from an Ork Boy who is in base contact with the enemy. Because the Nob isn't within 2" (and thus isn't in the fight yet), he can't be challenged. Then, at the Initiative 1 pile in step, the Nob moves up and can swing.

It's not cowardly because the Nob can't be challenged and thus can't refuse it.

I always kit out my Nobs. The 4+ save comes in very useful against small arms fire and precision shots. With clever positioning, you can keep him out of challenge range and then move him forward at his initiative step. I'd try some positioning tactics and, like others have said, persevere. Nobs are always awesome for me!

You are also probably playing LoS wrong.


After the FAQ, you cannot LoS unsaved wounds.

You use LoS when you are allocated a wound. You then choose to either take the hit or use LoS. If you take the hit, or use LoS and fail it, the wound will either be saved or unsaved by the nob. No way to save him if he dies this way.


This prevents a Terminator wearing character from standing out front tanking all the hits, and tossing failed wounds back on the grunts. Effectively giving the squad 2+ armor against shooting.

zephoid wrote:Keep him in the back of the mob. If he isnt within 3" of the fight, hes not engaged and cannot be challenged. At I1 he piles in and then should be within 3".

Not true.

Anyways, I agree that if your opponent is able to consistently trash a nob before he gets to swing either your opponent is being consistently pretty lucky, or you're playing things wrong somehow (forgetting the extra wound, for example).

As for if nobz are worth it at all, or if they should have power klaws anymore, there's been a fair bit of discussion on this point already:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484748.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/483429.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474623.page


Personally, I'd ignore the doom and gloom. There are some things that can beat PK nobz before they have a chance to swing, but most things can't. Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn't mean that nobz, including those with klaws, aren't worth taking.

From my own experiences, PK Nobz can be worthwhile in Boyz squads as they are an insurance card against walkers, vehicles, and MCs that your Boyz may not be able to take otherwise. Keep them in the middle of the squad since 4+ saves and LoS won't last long.

As for your situation against a challenge, don't be afraid to refuse a challenge. Them puny pink skins aren't always worthy 'Nuff for the Nobz....that and usually the mass attacks from Boyz are menacing to marine squads and their sergeants. Challenge aside, how we'll do the Boyz do against the unit where the sergeant is killing your mob? If they are overwhelmingly thrashing the marines, then refuse the challenge so the sergeant can take a beating too.

Ailaros -> I just used two hours of my life reading through the things you've posted. Without getting into a stupid arguement about whats on page 21, 23, 64 and in the appendix.. Is it ok for me to sandbag the nob in the movement and not be in base to base during assault to get out of the challenge or not?

And I mean what everyone is doing not rules lawyer garbage you linked. I don't understand how any of those guys can read the BRB without having benine words defined for them and indexed like "If" "you" and "follow" words commonly found in the BRB.

Otherwise, thank you for the other information it was a good read. ( I mean that). It's just that others here are saying it's ok and you are saying it's not with a link to this thread.. and now I still don't know the exception to the challenge rule.

 Ailaros wrote:

zephoid wrote:Keep him in the back of the mob. If he isnt within 3" of the fight, hes not engaged and cannot be challenged. At I1 he piles in and then should be within 3".

Not true.

Anyways, I agree that if your opponent is able to consistently trash a nob before he gets to swing either your opponent is being consistently pretty lucky, or you're playing things wrong somehow (forgetting the extra wound, for example).

As for if nobz are worth it at all, or if they should have power klaws anymore, there's been a fair bit of discussion on this point already:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484748.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/483429.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474623.page


Personally, I'd ignore the doom and gloom. There are some things that can beat PK nobz before they have a chance to swing, but most things can't. Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn't mean that nobz, including those with klaws, aren't worth taking.

Your argument aboiut challenge evasion in that link was so bad it gave me cancer; have you honestly ever tried to play that, and if yes, how did people respond to that shenanigan?

YMDC is *that* way ---->

With Nobs, never run them in small numbers. I like them in trukk fleets where you can throw six into a combat to back up your boys.

With regards to taking Nob squads, generally you want Bikers (fast klaws) or MANz (cheaper, tougher klaws) rather than vanilla Nobs.

Also to accept a challenge with a less powerful Nob is also unOrky.