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With real line of site being the rule of the land what is topping people from modelling to take advantage of that rule? Is there anything stopping people from lets say making terrian on a base to stop line of site?

I have seen no rule on what can be placed on bases. That is just a example..I am sure other examples can be brought forth.

Yes, there is a rule that says any cover on a base doesn't count. Can't remember page, but it's in the rulebook.

And modelling to gain advantages is called Modelling For Advantage and is at best frowned upon and at worst will get you disqualified at tournaments.

Real line of sight doesn't extend to anything modelled on the base of a model. I can't remember the page reference, but only the main body of the model is to be used. Things like weapons, wings, banners and suchlike (implicitly including base materials) are to be ignored when working out TLOS.

However the main thing that should be stopping people is that its cheeky and detracts from the fun of the game. Now there are times when the coolness ofa model cannot be denied, but in those cases it can be agreed between the players that the model actually fills a space the size and shape of the normal model for a given unit.

J0kerrMT wrote:
With real line of site being the rule of the land what is topping people from modelling to take advantage of that rule?

Your opponent. Or rather, the lack of one, if you get too 'creative' with your modelling.


GW has never really bothered with trying to regulate modelling and the potential abuses that are available through it. Players generally do that job themselves. If you start showing up to a game with models that have clearly been modified to grant yourself an unfair advantage, people will simply stop playing against you.

Is there anything stopping people from lets say making terrian on a base to stop line of site?

There certainly is. The rule you're looking for is on page 18.

Well, I've yet to see GW staff care, having complained to a judge about the guy who modeled his sentinels as having tripped over so they could take cover behind one-story buildings and being told its GW's official model go f*** myself...

That said, yes, you will lose almost all hope of friendly games or anyone to practice against as a minimum, unless you can make the model with the change look cool (one sentinel in a squadron having tripped up and both firing and being fired at in the tripped position, for example, would be cool, while all of them would be dumb).

I find that if anyone complains about a particular model, the best solution is to produce a standard sized model and offer to count the weird one as being 'standard sized.' Most opponents will accept that.

 Flinty wrote:
Things like weapons, wings, banners and suchlike... are to be ignored when working out TLOS.

This is only true when working out Line of Sight to the model in question.

Any models behind said model would be obscured as normal.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Things like weapons, wings, banners and suchlike... are to be ignored when working out TLOS.

This is only true when working out Line of Sight to the model in question.

Any models behind said model would be obscured as normal.

Obscured, yes.
But they'll just given a save, not blocked from sight.

I have no problem with people modelling in whatever pose they want, if I want a crouching wraithlord then I'll make a crouching wraithlord. For all games purposes I assume it's the default height though.

I normally find the advantage is normally countered with a disadvantage. For example. A kneeling Space Marine has the advantage of finding it easier to be in cover however, this is balanced with the fact it will find it harder to shoot over a lot of terrain that a standing Space Marine can. Even more so with the tripped up sentinel or a snoozing Titan
I quite often play against an Ork player who proxies hit Ork Dreadnoughts with LEGO robots(Mind Storm or Hero Factory). They are about twice the size but just make them an easier target

 Skinnereal wrote:
Obscured, yes.
But they'll just given a save, not blocked from sight.

That would depend on whether the model is partially obscured, or blocked from sight. If the model is not visible, then it is not visible.

Seeing as we are talking MFA and LoS, can I ask what the gwneral consensus is on Riptides that are crouching? It is designed to be modelled that way, GW uses it, advertises it in the model description and to me made it perfectly legal and ok? But despite all this would it still be considered MFA?

 Deadshot wrote:
Seeing as we are talking MFA and LoS, can I ask what the gwneral consensus is on Riptides that are crouching? It is designed to be modelled that way, GW uses it, advertises it in the model description and to me made it perfectly legal and ok? But despite all this would it still be considered MFA?

Well the Actual model has pegs and holes that are used to align them into that one position. By removing them and repositioning id figure it would technically be modeling for whatever advantage (coolvantage?)

Keep in mind that if a model is taller or shorter than normal that it will effect its own LoS.

Those crouching wraithlords may have issues seeing stuff, or be giving cover to models that wouldn't get it if they were posed "normally"

And for the Riptide and Wraithknight, as the model is designed to be built in different poses beyond the default pose(which just has pegs to aid in assembly) any poses that can be accomplished without any additional modifications beyond cutting those pegs would be perfectly legal.


Usually, the change has to be pretty major for any useful amount of advantage to be gained. Adding a half inch of height to the model's base isn't going to do much. Having him standing on top of a 3" tall rock will.

Unless it was obviously deliberately done for some in game advantage I wouldn't alter anything. The advantage will likely not make much difference so its not worth having a hissy-fit over.

Didn't you stop to wonder why you never saw an army full of miniatures hiding behind walls so that they could run up to the enemy and assault them without getting shot at?

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Didn't you stop to wonder why you never saw an army full of miniatures hiding behind walls so that they could run up to the enemy and assault them without getting shot at?

Of course because you would always have to make a difficult terrain test. D´oh

tommse wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Didn't you stop to wonder why you never saw an army full of miniatures hiding behind walls so that they could run up to the enemy and assault them without getting shot at?

Of course because you would always have to make a difficult terrain test. D´oh

Almost a shame they changed the slow & purposeful rules, imagine an army of Meganobz standing behind walls because they counted as moving through terrain in 5th anyway...

tommse wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Didn't you stop to wonder why you never saw an army full of miniatures hiding behind walls so that they could run up to the enemy and assault them without getting shot at?

Of course because you would always have to make a difficult terrain test. D´oh

your not moving through terrain that is on your base only the one that is on the table. Anyway . I saw an army an old tyranid player has here that is full of genestealers that are crawling.

 shamikebab wrote:
I have no problem with people modelling in whatever pose they want, if I want a crouching wraithlord then I'll make a crouching wraithlord. For all games purposes I assume it's the default height though.

Precisely. If you got a custom-converted model, I expect you to have an original model at hand for all LoS purposes. Alternatively, you are to let me guess the height / size.

I always find it a pain with imperial guard weapon teams. As the vostroyans are mainly prone it means seeing over anything is a pain. This makes defence lines useless and any cover my mates can get in the weapon team is left out in the open.

We just agree that they can see and be seen the same as a standing guardsman

Makumba wrote:

tommse wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Didn't you stop to wonder why you never saw an army full of miniatures hiding behind walls so that they could run up to the enemy and assault them without getting shot at?

Of course because you would always have to make a difficult terrain test. D´oh

your not moving through terrain that is on your base only the one that is on the table. Anyway . I saw an army an old tyranid player has here that is full of genestealers that are crawling.

It's almost like there's a rule about bringing your cover with you... that was mentioned in this very thread...