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Views on kombi skorchas on characters guys?
With Ork bs being poor do you take one use kombi scorchas to soften up units?

Kombi-skorchas are pretty useful I think. They can help soften up a target before the charge. And like you said, with bs weak its guaranteed hits.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull "Great Waaagh! Detachment" since it says all units must have the Orks faction could you use the Dredmob for that Force Organization as they are an Orks faction?

Or the Ork Hoard Detachment from the current Ork Codex ?

Yes, Yes and Yes. Just remember that some selections from the Dreadmob does require you to take a compulsory choice. For example. To take Dreads as troops, you must have 1 Spanna boy mob.

I've been wondering, where does it say the Spannaboyz are Compulsory at ?

Also does that mean I could have (possible) Deepstriking Spanna Boyz and Deff Dreads on the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Foc ?

Page 132 in IA:8 and yes.


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The Imperial Answer wrote:
Can someone inform me of why Cybork Slasherz are considered a lack luster unit ?

They are an amazing unit. Big chopas on each and a pain boy. The down side to them is the unit is so over cost for what you get. Personally, I only use mine in apoc as a body guard unit for me warlord.

Because expensive, slow footslogging melee units with crap durability that can be doubled out by big guns are a bad thing

 Dakkamite wrote:
Because expensive, slow footslogging melee units with crap durability that can be doubled out by big guns are a bad thing

That kind of describes Mega-Nobz at times.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Because expensive, slow footslogging melee units with crap durability that can be doubled out by big guns are a bad thing

That kind of describes Mega-Nobz at times.

This is partly why I'm converting bitz to make three Big Meks from the kit (Mogrok's Bossboyz formation).

Still good in combat but need invulnerable or something..

I seem to have misread or misremembered the slashas, theres nothing stopping them from taking a transport.

In that case they look neat but still pretty pricy for what you get. Imagine an eldar or necron model @ 30pts, it would be a lot more impressive - none of this "balancing out a bonus with a weakness" stuff, it would be pure buffs across the board.

However, some kind of "Mega Slasha Nobz" would be right on the money.

 Frozocrone wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Because expensive, slow footslogging melee units with crap durability that can be doubled out by big guns are a bad thing

That kind of describes Mega-Nobz at times.

This is partly why I'm converting bitz to make three Big Meks from the kit (Mogrok's Bossboyz formation).

Still good in combat but need invulnerable or something..

Well you can put a Painboy in for Feel No Pain.

You could also throw Grotsnick in as (in addition to FNP) I believe he also gives Rampage.

Only problem I can see is that the cost is a lot and you have some rules which are now redundant.

So for 30 points you have an 18 pt nob who has a 6+ FNP and the experiment results rules. Once decked out the unit is looking rather pricey. They have cybork and also a painboy, which makes cybork useless unless the painboy dies. Shame FNP doesn't stack for orks, as that would have been much more useful rule for cybork body.

Solar Shock wrote:
Only problem I can see is that the cost is a lot and you have some rules which are now redundant.

So for 30 points you have an 18 pt nob who has a 6+ FNP and the experiment results rules. Once decked out the unit is looking rather pricey. They have cybork and also a painboy, which makes cybork useless unless the painboy dies. Shame FNP doesn't stack for orks, as that would have been much more useful rule for cybork body.

Agree. We just world-wide agree to house rule that Cybork stacks with PainBoys:

"Adds 1 to FNP rolls to a minimum of 6+"

Painboss from IA8 looks like it could be a good HQ.
He's a painboy whom you can give a PK, he can also give a unit of spanna boyz cybork for 3pts a model. So you can bring a unit of troops with a 6+ FNP, however after 15+ in the unit its cheaper to grab a painboy HQ for the 5+.

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Ran this Friday;[b]

Blitz Brigade - All 5 with Killkannon, 4x Rokkits and Rams

CAD
Painboy BP
Painboy BP
Mek
Mek
18 shoota boyz, nob, PK, BP
18 shoota boyz, Nob, Pk, BP
3x 5 Kommandos - barebones
3x 1 Deffcopta

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Worked really well, the 3x 5man kommando units were easily MVP, I used them to allow myself to play aggressively with the wagons, I infiltrated them onto objectives (which when placing I made sure to make them awkward to get to, like at top level of buildings, corners of the map etc.) They sat on 3 objectives all game, using the 3+ cover saves and GTG when needed. Scored me many Maelstrom points which is a double bonus as it allowed my hand to refresh faster. For 150 points they were outstanding, they either forced the opponent to deal with them or ignore them, both of which is good for me.

The wagons held up most game, losing only a couple, the killkannon was fantastic, the roll 2D6 and pick highest for armour pen was so useful, I was pretty much guaranteed a pen each time I hit; which is also often with a large blast. The rokkits however were more lack luster, 4 rokkits hitting on a 5+ or 6+ when moving etc actually didn't result in many hits at all. On occasion during the game they did something, but not often. In future I think 4BS will be much more useful, as snapshooting 12 shots is still pretty good But I could drop all of them anyway for 100 points to spend on another unit.

Koptas were there to help grab any objectives lost when kommando's died, to get in the way of other units and generally just harass. List worked really well together, the boyz were remarkably durable with FNP and I feel FNP is by far the best buff you can give a boyz unit.

I wish they'd put the forgeworld units into the next official codex.

Seeing as they put the big honking stompa in, you think they could just make it official and clump in the rest of the cool stuff.

Painboss, would be cool to mess with.

The IA8 pain boss is awesome. Not only can they take a PK they can also take heavy armor, comes in handy vs pesky barrage weapons.

For the life of me i dont know why they gave the pain boyz in the Ork codex no options.

Spanners boyz are 6 point shoota boyz. Only thing is they don't have grenades (no biggie) and no ere'we'go.

I think the Pain Boss was just meant for the Dreadmob.

Lore wise Kans and Dreads are a collaborative effort between Meks and Pain Boys so they would be of higher stature in a Dreadmob than they might be in a normal Ork force.

I figure thats probably accurate, but if we have big meks, we probably have room for big painboyz, especially when normal painboyz are a hq thing.

My theory - GW didn't really think about any of that.

If they did they would have called it a Painboss - painboy is a terrible name for a boss. They also would have stacked cybork and painboys as any halfwit reading this dex would know that painboys are going to be everywhere so a 6+++ is next to useless

So looking at infantry tactics for a moment if you were to have 3 squads of Boyz or Bikes would having a Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field in every squad be feasible ?


I notice if you take Mogrok's Boss Boyz you can have 3 Big Meks, 1 Warboss and 1 Weirdboy without using up any of your force organization HQ slots.


Would one for every squad even be helpful or are those points better invested somewhere else ?


Also since Mogrok's Boss Boyz can Out Flank D3 friendly Ork units can they Outflank the entire Green Tide given its deployed as 1 Unit ?

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So looking at infantry tactics for a moment if you were to have 3 squads of Boyz or Bikes would having a Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field in every squad be feasible ?
I notice if you take Mogrok's Boss Boyz you can have 3 Big Meks, 1 Warboss and 1 Weirdboy without using up any of your force organization HQ slots.
Would one for every squad even be helpful or are those points better invested somewhere else ?
Also since Mogrok's Boss Boyz can Out Flank D3 friendly Ork units can they Outflank the entire Green Tide given its deployed as 1 Unit ?

Probably wouldn't be very feasible, at 3 squads lets say 20 strong, your looking about 160 points of boyz per squad with a nob and PK. For each to have a barebones KFF thats an extra 85 points. Thats 50% of the unit cost. Providing its only a 1/3 save you'd get more mileage by taking more boyz. Same with bikes really, still an extra 100 points for a bike KFF, provided you already have a 4+ and 3+ jink available a 5+ against shooting is a littlelackluster.

However, with a large mob of bikes it could be useful to protect against ignores cover. But imo, a painboy is better in almost all situations. A FNP that can be taken along with a T-shirt save or a cover save.

As for Mogrok's formation, personally I would keep some of the big meks cheap, otherwise all 5 will cost you easily around 500 points. I would take a bikerboss, a KFF somewhere and the other big meks I would probably look at doing something else with. I don't know whether you could outflank the green tide, you'd probably have issues getting them all on the board edge, not to mention they cant charge the turn they arrive so any enemy is just going to run the opposite way

Solar Shock wrote:
Worked really well, the 3x 5man kommando units were easily MVP, I used them to allow myself to play aggressively with the wagons, I infiltrated them onto objectives (which when placing I made sure to make them awkward to get to, like at top level of buildings, corners of the map etc.) They sat on 3 objectives all game, using the 3+ cover saves and GTG when needed. Scored me many Maelstrom points which is a double bonus as it allowed my hand to refresh faster. For 150 points they were outstanding, they either forced the opponent to deal with them or ignore them, both of which is good for me.

That's interesting that you've had such good success with Kommandos, I'd never really considered them before but I guess I might have to try them out. I can see how they'd be useful for holding onto objectives but I'd have thought, at least for objectives in your deployment zone, that Gretchin would be just as good. I like to use a unit of Gretchin behind an ADL with a Quad Gun, which, although it's more expensive, gives them good cover and gives me the benefits of a BS3 Quad Gun. Perhaps I'll just take a single bare-bones unit to grab one of the objectives in my opponent's half (or simply further up the board) early on.

 The Shadow wrote:

That's interesting that you've had such good success with Kommandos, I'd never really considered them before but I guess I might have to try them out. I can see how they'd be useful for holding onto objectives but I'd have thought, at least for objectives in your deployment zone, that Gretchin would be just as good. I like to use a unit of Gretchin behind an ADL with a Quad Gun, which, although it's more expensive, gives them good cover and gives me the benefits of a BS3 Quad Gun. Perhaps I'll just take a single bare-bones unit to grab one of the objectives in my opponent's half (or simply further up the board) early on.

Yeh I haven't ran them before, so I don't know how they fair as larger units, but I used them exactly as you pointed out, they were there to sit on objectives mid field and further up. I have ran grots in my deployment a couple times and they function perfectly well. In one game a single unit of those kommandos scored me 3 VP's, so for 50 points I consider that a steal. It also meant that I could deploy the objectives in difficult places or in positions where I could draw the enemies units towards me.

I am now thinking barebones with 2 big shootas @ 60 points. the ability to throw out some extra shots would be greatly welcome, not to mention that it helps on overwatch. Plus I found them reasonably durable, they weren't against many dedicated assault units, but as they are in cover I was forcing a couple units to strike last, so throwing a few wounds on them helped.

 Dakkamite wrote:
My theory - GW didn't really think about any of that.

If they did they would have called it a Painboss - painboy is a terrible name for a boss. They also would have stacked cybork and painboys as any halfwit reading this dex would know that painboys are going to be everywhere so a 6+++ is next to useless

Exalted!! Also if they're that interested in making money, how about the GorkaMorkanaughts being assault vehicles? Big wiff there. Also, WTF the new Trukk Ramshackle Rule, Stormboyz Rokkit Pack Nerf, Red Paint Job is useless, Deffrolla Nerf, Exhaust Cloud nerf, forcing everyone to have Str 3 grenades for Int 2 models thus upping the cost of the Shoota boy? The friggin triple Kan nerfs of higher cost, cowardly, and Kan Klaw? Dakka Jets and variants Waghhh nerf and over costed and underpowered.

I took most of the new dex in stride a year ago because it was the first new Ork dex since 4th and the first 7th edition dex. But with Necrons and Eldar I am shaking my head. Painboyz are straight up HQ? Should have been exactly like Meks, take one for each regular HQ. Hey regulars bikes went way down but Nobz are more expensive than a Warbosses ride? WTF. BTW the new Eldar vastly superior Jetbikes than can Turbo 36 and move in the assault phase with a 3+ (seriously WTF) armor save? Oh yeah we'll make it a point cheaper than OrkBikes and you can put heavies on everyone and their Troops. Big middle finger to Orks right there. Where is our M-Fing Speed Freaks Supplement?!

Happy Memorial Day and thanks to all the veterans for their service.

 PipeAlley wrote:

I took most of the new dex in stride a year ago because it was the first new Ork dex since 4th and the first 7th edition dex.

Exalted.
I was the same, so excited simply for the fact I was looking at a new Ork dex, new conversion options, new crazy tactics.... yet overall lackluster.
My belief is GW are bringing all dex's up to the Cron Eldar style with powerful formations and combo's, shame its probably going to be years before we see that update.

Solar Shock wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

I took most of the new dex in stride a year ago because it was the first new Ork dex since 4th and the first 7th edition dex.

Exalted.
I was the same, so excited simply for the fact I was looking at a new Ork dex, new conversion options, new crazy tactics.... yet overall lackluster.
My belief is GW are bringing all dex's up to the Cron Eldar style with powerful formations and combo's, shame its probably going to be years before we see that update.

Given how rapidly they're updating the codexes, it might not actually be that long until we get a new book, and until then we've always got the IA: 8 update which might bring some cool stuff.

But I think we all were at least a little disappointed with the new book, especially compared to the Eldar and Necron books. External balance aside, both are extremely well internally balanced, with very few dud options.

I wish we had a codex like that...

What got me in the Nerf department was Kans.

I don't necessarily mind the price increase or the nerf to their melee weapon (it is still AP2).

But I find it odd Cowardly Grots is still in affect even if there is a Stompa nearby.

I would be terrified of the stompa no matter what side I'm on

Now I could believe that if normal Gretchin weren't fearless when near one.

Kanz overnerf was a reaction to 5 edition kan walls that were quite potent with 4+ cover from KFF and s10 ap2 mellee attacks. The interesting part is that kanz were allready bad in 6-th when they were still 40 a piece with s10 ap2 mellee weapons and without cowardly grots. Probably, GW rulewriters thought that 7-th edition made walkers so good, you'd want to spam 6-strong kan squadrons all day. Or some inner voices told them to do so. Who knows.

 koooaei wrote:
Who knows.

It is quite unfortunate, given how much I love the Killa Kan models and my predisposition towards running Dread Mob lists.

On the plus side we still have Grot tanks from FW. And who knows, when the IA8 update swings around it'd be nice to see what other options/formations we'll be given to make the addition of meka/mega dreadz into our lists.

 koooaei wrote:
Kanz overnerf was a reaction to 5 edition kan walls that were quite potent with 4+ cover from KFF and s10 ap2 mellee attacks. The interesting part is that kanz were allready bad in 6-th when they were still 40 a piece with s10 ap2 mellee weapons and without cowardly grots. Probably, GW rulewriters thought that 7-th edition made walkers so good, you'd want to spam 6-strong kan squadrons all day. Or some inner voices told them to do so. Who knows.

The Kan nerf was probably a financial decision as well (to encourage Ork players consider buying other units).

But Rokkits being free on Kans is nice.




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 Grimskul wrote:
It is quite unfortunate, given how much I love the Killa Kan models and my predisposition towards running Dread Mob lists.

On the plus side we still have Grot tanks from FW. And who knows, when the IA8 update swings around it'd be nice to see what other options/formations we'll be given to make the addition of meka/mega dreadz into our lists.

Speaking of Grot Tanks the Waaagh! Ghazghkull "Great Waaagh! Detachment appears to favor those as you have 5 Elites slots what you can fill with Grot Tanks if you wished.