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Y'know what would be funny? Use the True Grit stratagem on a unit of Long Fangs with 4 Heavy Bolters while they are in combat. Obviously you shouldn't let your Long Fangs end up in CC, but if they do...

Also, wouldn't it work on Inceptors?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Y'know what would be funny? Use the True Grit stratagem on a unit of Long Fangs with 4 Heavy Bolters while they are in combat. Obviously you shouldn't let your Long Fangs end up in CC, but if they do...

Also, wouldn't it work on Inceptors?

The weapons that can benefit from the Stratagem are pretty clearly mentioned. Heavy Bolters are not one of them.

 Weazel wrote:


Ragnar69 just use a WP with Jump Pack, you'll lose 2" and a point of toughness but a flying character is much easier to position if the battlefield becomes too crowded.

I know, but I have a converted biker WP. Do you know how long it takes to remove old Ulrik's metal head undamaged ?

5 wulfen: FC, 2 x TH/SS, 2 x GFA just went from 284 to 231 pts...

 Weazel wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Y'know what would be funny? Use the True Grit stratagem on a unit of Long Fangs with 4 Heavy Bolters while they are in combat. Obviously you shouldn't let your Long Fangs end up in CC, but if they do...

Also, wouldn't it work on Inceptors?

The weapons that can benefit from the Stratagem are pretty clearly mentioned. Heavy Bolters are not one of them.

Ah, I didn't read it carefully. My bad.

Intercessors would be pretty nasty with this stratagem. If they survive getting charged by something, they'll just stay in CC and give the enemy some bolt rifle rounds in the kisser before handing out a bunch of CC attacks. I still think the strat is meh, but it doesn't take anything away and costs nothing if it's not used, so it doesn't hurt to have it available should an appropriate situation arise.

Northern85Star wrote:
5 wulfen: FC, 2 x TH/SS, 2 x GFA just went from 284 to 231 pts...

Noticed, amazing. And with the new outflanking stratagem...

 Blackie wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
5 wulfen: FC, 2 x TH/SS, 2 x GFA just went from 284 to 231 pts...

Noticed, amazing. And with the new outflanking stratagem...

Yeah I am super excited about that combination. I might actually be able to afford to bring wulfen and TWC and not have a super tiny list anymore haha.

The new warlord trait where you can attack first no matter what is as devastating as I thought when I gave it to Bjorn. He ripped apart half a berzerker unit, survived and proceeded to finish them. The same zerkers that attack twice with re rolls from characters, haha.

I love the point reductions to wulfen and terminators. Running 10 termies is a joy when they get to close combat. Arjac looks like he went up 5 points but I do not mind that at all, he's an absolute beast.

I personally ran razorback assault cannon load out, but those went up. Anyone run troops any differently?

 KingCorpus wrote:
The new warlord trait where you can attack first no matter what is as devastating as I thought when I gave it to Bjorn. He ripped apart half a berzerker unit, survived and proceeded to finish them. The same zerkers that attack twice with re rolls from characters, haha.

I love the point reductions to wulfen and terminators. Running 10 termies is a joy when they get to close combat. Arjac looks like he went up 5 points but I do not mind that at all, he's an absolute beast.

I personally ran razorback assault cannon load out, but those went up. Anyone run troops any differently?

All good to hear! Especially since Bjorn went down in points himself!

Did you run Wulfen and Terminators in the same list? And did you use the rumored command point ability for outflanking?

I also have the razorback/ac squads set up but looking at the new reduction in drop pod points I'm taking a second look at putting 5 man squads of grey hunters with a wolf guard pack leader in and loading them up with plasma and dropping them on my enemy to disrupt them while the TWC, etc, move on up.

The Lucious Droppod that lets us drop our awesomesauce shield/axe dreads into someones face also went down a TON of points. It was 110, now it's only 80!

 KingCorpus wrote:
The new warlord trait where you can attack first no matter what is as devastating as I thought when I gave it to Bjorn. He ripped apart half a berzerker unit, survived and proceeded to finish them. The same zerkers that attack twice with re rolls from characters, haha.

I love the point reductions to wulfen and terminators. Running 10 termies is a joy when they get to close combat. Arjac looks like he went up 5 points but I do not mind that at all, he's an absolute beast.

I personally ran razorback assault cannon load out, but those went up. Anyone run troops any differently?

Unfortunately that's not quite the strategem we got, its still very good though.

Trait: you can always choose your warlord to fight first if they didn’t charge. If the enemy charged, they go first then alternate.

So if you use the warlord as a counter charger basically on bjorn he will shred most anything with 2 consecutive attack phases, or with his consolidate move shred next.

COLD CASH wrote:

 KingCorpus wrote:
The new warlord trait where you can attack first no matter what is as devastating as I thought when I gave it to Bjorn. He ripped apart half a berzerker unit, survived and proceeded to finish them. The same zerkers that attack twice with re rolls from characters, haha.

I love the point reductions to wulfen and terminators. Running 10 termies is a joy when they get to close combat. Arjac looks like he went up 5 points but I do not mind that at all, he's an absolute beast.

I personally ran razorback assault cannon load out, but those went up. Anyone run troops any differently?

Unfortunately that's not quite the strategem we got, its still very good though.

Trait: you can always choose your warlord to fight first if they didn’t charge. If the enemy charged, they go first then alternate.

So if you use the warlord as a counter charger basically on bjorn he will shred most anything with 2 consecutive attack phases, or with his consolidate move shred next.

Where did you see that? The only information I've seen about the warlord trait was what Kingcorpus wrote. Unless you have a copy of the book already or it's been posted somewhere?

That's just how this ability works. Daemonettes have it too.
You are either in the group of the first strikers or second strikers. But who exactly in this group is actually the first depends on player activation. And since it's the enemies turn when he charges, he activates first.

Ragnar69 wrote:
That's just how this ability works. Daemonettes have it too.
You are either in the group of the first strikers or second strikers. But who exactly in this group is actually the first depends on player activation. And since it's the enemies turn when he charges, he activates first.

I understand that's how the daemonette one works but I haven't seen a concrete leak of what the warlord trait is. I've only seen the rumors of what it is and its description was we fight first no matter what. That's why I asked if he had seen any concrete proof/leaks to the contrary. I'd be happy to be proven one way or the other with some concrete evidence as CH isn't out yet.

I wasn't able to run the termies and wulfen yet with new point values because I don't quite know them all just yet. But considering wulfen got a 50 point cut from how I run them, for sure going to see them again especially if theyre cheaper than termies...haha

@Cold Cash yes I ran it that way, i worded that so it sounded differently. my bad.

The WD has a tiny picture of the SW rules in Chapter Approved. It's very hard to read, but it seems the leaks have been correct and complete.

There's a picture of the trait over in a recent article on BoLS.

It reads: "You can always choose your Warlord to fight first in the Fight phase even if he didn't charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place."

So if he charges or it's your turn, he's fighting firs as if he charged. If he gets charged or is in combat during the opponent's turn then his 'fight group' becomes part of the alternating activations? Is that right?

If someone charges Björn (or whoever has the trait) they get to activate the charging unit to fight before Björn since it's their turn. If they make multiple charges they can fight with one charger and Björn gets to fight next before the rest of the chargers.

So it's really not "always fights first" but I suppose it's a decent trait.

I run termies, wulfen, bikers and TWC in the same list

How does everyone feel about twin heavy bolters on the razorbacks now that the twin assault cannons have gone up in price along with the razorbacks? It'll keep them cheaper and let them fire a bit while running the grey hunters up in their metal box.

Not as devastating I know but with the other point reductions it might be something to think about to save points for more Wulfen, Long Fangs, TWC, Terminators, etc.

If you want to bring transports for advancing grey hunters go with a rhino full of them instead of a razorback with twin heavy bolter and 6 grey hunters.

The ass can razorbacks are amazing as gun platforms, I usually keep them empty while the grey hunters act as their screeners.

You make a good point. I just think I'd rather sink the points into a protective metal box that can bring some valuable support fire instead of more bolt guns. Mainly to save in total points for the TWC or other things I run behind them as I advance. I can still max out the plasma and instead of an extra boltgun I tend to bring a wolf guard with a frost sword/combi plasma.

I did some number comparisons tonight just for fun. Even with the deathwind upgrade Drop pods are cheaper than the razorbacks now by a significant amount. Even the heavy bolter razorbacks. With the deathwind missle launcher attached you get almost the same effectiveness as the twin heavy bolter with a decent roll.

With the decreased cost of the TWC as well I'm debating on having my Grey Hunters in DPs and dropping in to disrupt lines while the TWC rush up.

I feel like drop pods and some of our other stuff can definitely come back in a big way now. Along with the outflank strategem that can be used on Wulfen.

Sorry i didnt reply earlier, ive become the interim boss for awhile so been a busy bee at work etc.

A guy on reddit had the new C.A. and was hosting an ama.

Thats where i got the info, so if you use bjorn/arjac as a counter charger or heroic intervention hes gonna mulch stuff up so bad!!

Bjorn especially since his movement allows him much more freedom to be positioned correctly.

I'm still not impressed by Björn even with the WL trait. I mean he has 5 attacks so he can kill 5 models in combat at best. Sure the D6 damage does a number on multi-wound models but if no such model exists or is bubblewrapped or whatever I just don't see Björn shine. And Björn is going to be toast if charged by a unit that has good AP and damage, say Thunder Hammer termies or the like, because the chargers can still strike before him.

YMMV but I've never gotten much out of him really.

IMHO bjorn is ok, maybe even great but basically all the SW units are quite expensive point wise, even after chapter approved release. And the HQ dread is utterly expensive compared to the other HQs.

Njal is 153, arjac 145, a wolf lord on thunderwolf with the relic sword only 115 and he's an absolute beast that can also buff shooting with his rerolls, like bjorn but for half the points. Other generic HQs are cheaper.

I'm not impressed by Bjorn either, but not for its stats, he looks amazing, but the fact that I would be forced to save too many points to include him. And I'm struggling all the time thinking about SW lists because too many things end up out of the 2000 points budget

Yeah, that's the same conclusion I came to as well. They are simply too expensive for their really cool stuff.

I like the idea of wolf lord on thunderwolf personally, it's my go-to hq for Space wolves.

 Weazel wrote:
I'm still not impressed by Björn even with the WL trait. I mean he has 5 attacks so he can kill 5 models in combat at best. Sure the D6 damage does a number on multi-wound models but if no such model exists or is bubblewrapped or whatever I just don't see Björn shine. And Björn is going to be toast if charged by a unit that has good AP and damage, say Thunder Hammer termies or the like, because the chargers can still strike before him.

YMMV but I've never gotten much out of him really.

Wish he had a 5+ invul or something... he's very squishy for his cost despite having T8. Still, if you do get him into CC with something valuable you're most likely going to absolutely wreck it with 5 S12 -4AP D6 damage that hits on 2s and can reroll both hit and wound rolls. Also, you should make maximum use of the fact that he's a character with <10 wounds. He's got a good 8" movement stat so with smart maneuvering you should be able to get him into combat unscathed.

After having a read of CA, I have to say Cunning of the Wolf looks quite useful. I imagine putting a unit of MM Long Fangs or combi-melta Wolf Guard up field would ruin someones day. The option for Wolf Guard Storm Bolter is also appealing. A full 40 shots into a infantry screen is a nice option to have.

Now add bikes so they fire the extra twin linked bolters on the way!

With the new stratagem I'm trying a list with TWC, wulfen and bikes deployed plus a second outflanking unit of wulfen and deep striking terminators. 10-12 long fangs, 3 min units of grey hunters and 2 HQs (among njal, arjac, wolf lord, wolf priest) to complete the list. Sometimes I have some points spared and I also include 5-6 fenrisian wolves.

I'm glad we now have the possibility to play a pure SW list, I didn't abandoned twin ass cannons razorbacks but I love the typical SW units and thanks to CA I'm really enjoying playing them for the first time in this edition.