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Who says that these miniatures aren't "right". All you're doing is expressing an opinion about the quality, and then arguing with anyone who disagrees with you. If you don't like the quality that's fine, but it's got nothing to do with any other Kickstarter and if you don't like it, that's your business.

Actually I wasn’t arguing with anyone but if expressing concerns about Catalysts production values and hoping for a better quality mini than that displayed in the vid Ghaz posted constitutes arguing so be it.

I have seen no evidence or discussion on the KS about upping their production values. Until I do this KS will be a hard pass for me.

I think it’s pretty clear this Kickstarter won’t be for you. I would not expect Catalyst to radically change anything during the campaign, or after. For them, and clearly many Battletech players, the quality is acceptable. That it’s not up to your specs is what it is.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You keep talking about these other Kickstarters like it means something.

Mantic did this. The Hellboy KS did that.

So what? It's like the people going "Will this suffer the same fate as the Robotech KS?", which makes no sense as this KS is as unrelated to the Robotech KS as the miniatures in this are related to anything Mantic has ever made.

Yeah there’s no comparison with Robotech as palladium were company famous for there delays and incompetence with no KS experience, where as catalyst are a company famous for delays and incompetence with KS experience that includes a losing a continents worth of pledges. So no comparison there then

As for the quality I think he’s trying to say why settle for average quality just because your used to gakky quality, mantic showed renders and then found a company that made pvc models that reflected the quality of the renders. It took a couple of goes but they got there in the end those existing pvc mechs look like they are produced by the factory that mantic stopped using.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 totalfailure wrote:
I think it’s pretty clear this Kickstarter won’t be for you. I would not expect Catalyst to radically change anything during the campaign, or after. For them, and clearly many Battletech players, the quality is acceptable. That it’s not up to your specs is what it is.

That’s because BT players are used to early 80’s quality miniatures so mechs with 00’s level quality give them the fuzzies apparently. That’s always been BT’s problem the whole ethos of below average will do as long as there’s releases coming.

SeanDrake wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You keep talking about these other Kickstarters like it means something.

Mantic did this. The Hellboy KS did that.

So what? It's like the people going "Will this suffer the same fate as the Robotech KS?", which makes no sense as this KS is as unrelated to the Robotech KS as the miniatures in this are related to anything Mantic has ever made.

Yeah there’s no comparison with Robotech as palladium were company famous for there delays and incompetence with no KS experience, where as catalyst are a company famous for delays and incompetence with KS experience that includes a losing a continents worth of pledges. So no comparison there then

As for the quality I think he’s trying to say why settle for average quality just because your used to gakky quality, mantic showed renders and then found a company that made pvc models that reflected the quality of the renders. It took a couple of goes but they got there in the end those existing pvc mechs look like they are produced by the factory that mantic stopped using.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 totalfailure wrote:
I think it’s pretty clear this Kickstarter won’t be for you. I would not expect Catalyst to radically change anything during the campaign, or after. For them, and clearly many Battletech players, the quality is acceptable. That it’s not up to your specs is what it is.

That’s because BT players are used to early 80’s quality miniatures so mechs with 00’s level quality give them the fuzzies apparently. That’s always been BT’s problem the whole ethos of below average will do as long as there’s releases coming.

Thank you Sean glad someone gets it at least. This is exactly what I am saying. Those beginners and core set minis in that vid look very reminiscent of the Mercs stuff and that just puts me off. Jeez I wasn’t aware of Catalyst losing a continents worth of pledges in the past.

I actually played BT when it was first released. I have stayed away as I never felt the minis moved with the times and although the newer ones are a step in the right direction they still seem a much lower quality compared to the wider market and not where they should be in this day and age. I want to jump in but feel totally reluctant.

Now if Catalyst said in the KS they were moving the minis quality up and this would also apply to existing minis in the core set etc even as part of the SG’s it would be a big positive. Why couldn’t they even use the same manufacturer and plastic Mantic used for the Hellboy KS? I would feel a whole lot more comfortable if they addressed quality of the minis in their KS.

If those are your concerns, probably better to wait for retail. Unlike those other KS you mentioned, this one seems to have no KS exclusive minis, just swag like the challenge coins. Only thing you're missing out is the slightly lower RSP but even that can be probably be offset by retailer sales. In exchange, you'll have the confidence of knowing if the minis are up to your standards or not, before putting down money. I don't mean that sarcastically BTW, I personally am very picky when backing KSs too.

PS Mercs recon though... That was a gak show. Personally I don't think CGL is on the same level as those guys, not even close. They basically sank their company thru shady kickstarter over promising. Iirc.

The KS was updated with a link to the first short story for the backers. It's a nice tidbit of what things might have been when meeting the clans for the first time. Although being anal retentive about things Btech I went and checked the original background of Invading Clans and the author got Star Col Shower's mech wrong! She was ridding a Timber Wolf not a Dire Wolf!!!!!!

M.

 rabidaskal wrote:
If those are your concerns, probably better to wait for retail. Unlike those other KS you mentioned, this one seems to have no KS exclusive minis, just swag like the challenge coins. Only thing you're missing out is the slightly lower RSP but even that can be probably be offset by retailer sales. In exchange, you'll have the confidence of knowing if the minis are up to your standards or not, before putting down money. I don't mean that sarcastically BTW, I personally am very picky when backing KSs too.

PS Mercs recon though... That was a gak show. Personally I don't think CGL is on the same level as those guys, not even close. They basically sank their company thru shady kickstarter over promising. Iirc.

Alas you could be right Rabid which is a shame because my heart wants to back this KS for sentimental reasons but my head is saying don’t accept mediocre minis production values. Unless I see something addressing quality in the KS i.e. the minis are going to look exactly like the renders and be of a higher quality plastic and tooling than previous minis, I am probably out.

Your right on the KS being a little stingy as it doesn’t seem to be really offering that much more minis (apart from a few blind salvage packs) for free and everything seems to be add ons for a cost or the enforced double forces option which certainly doesn’t favour backers, maybe they are trying to fund a reprint of their beginners and core sets within this KS? When I look back at the amount of minis received from the Hellboy KS and their quality this one feels a little light on both fronts.

Oh, the value and discount is there, that really isn't subjective at all. Presently, the cheapest mechs available are the Game of Armored Combat, with a MSRP of 60. That puts the price per mech (hereafter referred to as PPM) at 7.5

Star Captain's your best pledge for mech value- it started with 15 mechs for 95, or 6.33 per mech. With the freebies, we've added 2 points of elementals, and 2 salvage boxes. Counting just mechs, that's a PPM of 5.58. Counting the bases of Elementals, it drops to 5 bucks per mech or point of Elementals.

30% off retail is a pretty good deal for a kickstarter. And keeping in mind, that's just the starter minis- many individual battletech miniatures are in the 10-15 dollar range. For the Inner Sphere Comman lance, you pay 20 in Kickstarter. At Ironwind Metals, the Archer is 15.75, the Marauder 16.25, the Stinger 9.95 and the Valkyrie 10.45 (52 dollars for the lance). This kickstarter is a great deal for Battletech miniatures.

Admittedly, the higher pledges have much lower rates for the mechs- but you're pledging that for prestige, and awesome perks like your name in the universe, t-shirts and such.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Oh, the value and discount is there, that really isn't subjective at all. Presently, the cheapest mechs available are the Game of Armored Combat, with a MSRP of 60. That puts the price per mech (hereafter referred to as PPM) at 7.5

Star Captain's your best pledge for mech value- it started with 15 mechs for 95, or 6.33 per mech. With the freebies, we've added 2 points of elementals, and 2 salvage boxes. Counting just mechs, that's a PPM of 5.58. Counting the bases of Elementals, it drops to 5 bucks per mech or point of Elementals.

30% off retail is a pretty good deal for a kickstarter. And keeping in mind, that's just the starter minis- many individual battletech miniatures are in the 10-15 dollar range. For the Inner Sphere Comman lance, you pay 20 in Kickstarter. At Ironwind Metals, the Archer is 15.75, the Marauder 16.25, the Stinger 9.95 and the Valkyrie 10.45 (52 dollars for the lance). This kickstarter is a great deal for Battletech miniatures.

Admittedly, the higher pledges have much lower rates for the mechs- but you're pledging that for prestige, and awesome perks like your name in the universe, t-shirts and such.

Compare this with the Hellboy KS where for my agent pledge of $95 I got over 100 minis (haven’t counted them exactly but certainly in excess) with at least 60 unique sculpts. All done to a great standard and even the box and extras inside were high quality. 5 of the minis were even of monstrous size and done brilliantly all using a very nice quality plastic. All of the minis I received were free of defects, flash, wonky bits and the detail was crisp and the sculpting sharp as previewed in their KS.

I wouldn’t say the value is subjective it’s non existent LOL.

Another thing I noticed on the Hellboy KS was a lot of challenge in the comments about what the minis quality was going to be like, none seen in the Battletech KS. What I can see is people commenting on the renders but that’s all they are, no working prototype or examples shown. It’s a bit like what Sean said.

That’s because BT players are used to early 80’s quality miniatures so mechs with 00’s level quality give them the fuzzies apparently. That’s always been BT’s problem the whole ethos of below average will do as long as there’s releases coming.

 Chimaera wrote:
I wouldn’t say the value is subjective it’s non existent LOL.

Because you're comparing apples to snowmobiles.

BTech isn't about 100's of miniatures, and you've just had an explanation of how these 'Mechs are significantly cheaper than purchasing the existing metal models (some of which are decades old sculpts, and are not at all the redesigns that we're getting here).

We're comparing BattleTech that exists to BattleTech that will be. You're not.

For my pledge I'm getting enough 'Mechs that it would cost over well over $1000. For $400 I'm getting all those 'Mechs plus over 10 new mapsheets (new mapsheets are a bit deal for BTech players), and even more beyond that.

If you understood what this game is at all, maybe you'd stop comparing it to something utterly alien.

I just received my wave 1 for the Joan of Arc KS.

Base pledge of $120 got you 438 minis. Some of which were buildings. Two of those "minis" would come in handy should an intruder ever break into your home.

Why can't Mantic (who I think are brilliant, by the way!) provide that level of value?

 Chimaera wrote:
Another thing I noticed on the Hellboy KS was a lot of challenge in the comments about what the minis quality was going to be like

That is because Mantic had used the same Hellboy PVC in their TWD KS game and said the same PVC was going to be used in their next KS campaigns for Star Saga, Terrain Crate and possibly KOW Vanguard(I dropped it, so not 100% sure on outcome) After the campaigns finished Mantic did a material swap for inferior PVC which pissed a lot of people off.

Personally after watching the video linked by Ghaz(iirc) i think these minis should be fine for the purpose intended.

Never thought I’d see consistent referrals to Mantic for providing high quality material, but here we are...

TWD and Hellboy are reportedly good. Star Saga and Dungeon Saga are 5/10 at best. So they can provide perfection or garbage depending on what they feel like in a given month and often change things AFTER taking backer money, and you want to hold them up as paragons of “getting what was shown”?

Opinion is subjective of course, so keep ranting about Hellboy if you want, but I find the new ‘mechs to be of good quality and evidently I’m not alone in that opinion. There’s always retail if you are hesitant.

Back on topic, the Kickstarter has passed $850K and has unlocked a new star/lance of 'mechs to be determined by the backers.

Still hopinh for House/ComStar Dice as well as Clan/Merc Dice

$600k unlocked the Great Houses for dice. For the Inner Sphere that really leaves Comstar/WoB and other minor or extinct powers waiting for dice. I guess FedCom as well as 600K did not appear to include them.

I can't wait for Star League mechs. Or for them to announce this lance/star's contents!

So far the packs have been structured really well. My favorite is the Clan Light Fire Star. The Peregrine (Horned Owl) and Vixen (Incubus) are just absolutely lovely mechs. And the Baboon is so goofy! I wasn't familiar with the Solitaire or Pack Hunter, but the rest are awesome! I have the old metal Peregrine. It might be time for it to be repainted once again!

 Gitzbitah wrote:
I can't wait for Star League mechs. Or for them to announce this lance/star's contents!

I imagine we won't see ComStar or any Star League 'mechs until the Kickstarter passes the $1 million mark (even though I would love to see an updated Spartan).

 Ghaz wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
I can't wait for Star League mechs. Or for them to announce this lance/star's contents!

I imagine we won't see ComStar or any Star League 'mechs until the Kickstarter passes the $1 million mark (even though I would love to see an updated Spartan).

if they do SLDF mechs I want a highlander

I'd imagine the first 'mechs they'd do for the Star League/ComStar would be the Crab and Black Knight for sure. The other two (or four ) are anybody's guess.

Will the minis (especially the Marauder & Warhammer) be available for retail purchase after the KS or is the KS the only way to get them. That's really the only thing that matters to me, and if I can avoid dipping my feet back into KS, I'd prefer that.

Yes, all of the minis will be available to purchase after the kickstarter. It's purpose is to fund mold production.

Now with the number of products and Catalyst's release pace, you may looking at their five year plan, but they will eventually be out there.

Is it worth reviewing the comments on Catalysts other Kickstarters?

You'll find a lot of hate. Shadowrun ended up being a mess by all accounts. I know that there is a risk CGL will have a repeat but it's something I'm ready to deal with.

M.

PD: For the 850K lance I'm voting Urbie!

The current Battletech kickstarter represents two major things: Firstly, an expansion to the introductory experience that also allows players old and new to obtain good quality (regardless of whatever completely unrelated game you're comparing them to) miniatures in the process. Secondly, those miniatures are, for the first time in the multiple decades of the games existence, being redesigned to fit a more modern aesthetic, which additionally allows several fan favourite models to be produced again for the first time since the original FASA court case.

CGL have already produced miniatures this way for an existing box set. There are no real unknowns involved with this process. They have gone through a series of iterations of the introductory box set in which the miniature quality has risen both in terms of materials and now design work. Equally, Catalyst cannot have missed the fact that there are quite a number of small companies and individual casters that have been making inroads into the Battletech miniature market with resin reproductions of the MWO-style designs.

I am far away from a CGL fanboy. They're a small company with plenty of shysters, and that has resulted in all kinds of annoyances when it comes to just being able to keep the older box sets in stock, let alone attempting to hock the skinny sub-Gashapon quality mechs of the mid-2000s intro box on us.

BUT. The recent "Game of Armored Combat" box set was pretty much everything the new Battletech box needed to be (hence why it instantly sold out). Of course it could have been better. CGL didn't suddenly turn into super badass risk-takers, but the miniatures were great redesigns. The kickstarter is simply going to do the same thing again while expanding that process to encompass many more new miniatures.

Asking them to attempt to up the current quality is basically asking for production delays in a process that is far from smooth to begin with, even when you have some level of experience already under your belt. Especially churlish when there's literally nothing fundamentally wrong with the current miniatures in the first place. That's manufacturing I'm afraid. I still get mispacks and the occasional miscast in GW stuff.

So, nah, I'd like my redesigned plastic Marauder and Archer miniatures, cheers.

Nurglitch wrote:
Is it worth reviewing the comments on Catalysts other Kickstarters?

Read up on Shadowrun sprawl it’s eye opening to say the least, or if you want to back Battletech don’t read it back and cross your fingers.

 ekwatts wrote:
Secondly, those miniatures are, for the first time in the multiple decades of the games existence, being redesigned to fit a more modern aesthetic, which additionally allows several fan favourite models to be produced again for the first time since the original FASA court case.

I don't think can be emphasised enough.

There are some designs that have languished in exile for a very long time, and having them return with new designs that are far closer to the originals than the Project Phoenix (which were very hit and miss... and multi-part metal!) is a massive step in the right direction.

It also allows CGL to branch out into Clan 'Mechs for the first time, something they've been trying to do for the better part of a decade. Anything that increases the access for new players is a goal CGL needs to be aiming for, and all their recent products seem to be directed right at that goal.

Anybody can point me to the estimate release dates and if the KS will be shipped in waves? I thought that the plan was to release the Clan box plus the 1st stretch goals on March 2020 (KS usual delays notwithstanding) and then the remaining boxes taking at least one month of additional time, but that time was not going to upset the original schedule.

Now I'm reading in the CGL forums that the whole KS will be released in 2021 in one wave. I'm in just for the beginners box and the 1st two IS lance packs. I'm not going to wait a whole year or more for something that probably will be out on the stores sometime mid 2020.

If CGL foregoes KS waves I'm going to drop from the KS and buy it directly.

M.

Edit: The FAQ says there will be two or three waves, so either people are reading this wrong and I got confused or CGL has changed the deal, pray they don't change it further.

No one on the forums knows what they're talking about unless they have a Beemer and are specifically answering questions. Everything else is just noise.

The only official information seems to be that initial campaign stuff will come first, then as they make the rest there will probably be waves. I'm hoping for a "wait 'til it's done" option, especially as they have no Oceania hub.