New health requirements keeping obese Boy Scouts out of national Jamboree

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**Jihadin**

GLEN JEAN, W.Va. – This year's Boy Scouts of America's national Jamboree is being billed as the most physically demanding in its history: There's rock climbing, rappelling, whitewater rafting and biking. And Scouts will go about the sprawling, hilly landscape the old-fashioned way — on foot.

Thousands of Scouts gather for 10 days starting Monday at a new location in West Virginia. Officials designed the 1,000-plus acre Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve to take advantage of the Mountain State's natural assets, and they also put into place new physical fitness requirements that eliminated morbidly obese Scouts from participating.

"Part of the design in building this site was to address the need for physical fitness in our youth, which of course is a longstanding component of Scouting," said Dan McCarthy, director of the BSA's Summit Group. "We saw this as an opportunity to integrate some new challenges ... so we deliberately spread the site to enable us to encourage Scouts and basically require Scouts to move about the site by foot."

This year, 30,000 Scouts ages 12 to 20 and their leaders were required to meet a threshold for body mass index and other health factors before being allowed to participate. Jamboree applicants with a BMI — a measure of body fat determined through height and weight — of 40 or higher were deemed ineligible. Those who fell between 32 and 39.9 faced providing additional health information to Jamboree medical staff.

Nationally, about 17 percent of children ages 2 to 19 are considered obese — triple the rate from a generation earlier, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"We required a level of fitness in order to come to the Jamboree that we haven't required before," McCarthy said. "And that has motivated an enormous return in terms of both kids and adults getting serious about improving their health."

Soon, the Scouts will know why. Besides offering a whole lot of fun, dozens of venues will test their physical skills and fitness. At some point during the Jamboree, every participating Scout will be asked to take a 3-mile trek up a mountain.

Their reward: A barbecue waiting at the top.

"We certainly want to get the Scouts outdoors, challenge them and have a healthy lifestyle," said Gary Hartley, the Summit's director of community and governmental relations. "We talk about the three C's as kind of the pillars, and that is cardio, character and citizenship. We have all of those embodied here."

From 1981 to 2010, the Jamboree was held every four years in Fort A.P. Hill, Va. That gathering on a flatter, borrowed Army base limited the size and scope of the Jamboree's operations.

In 2009, southern West Virginia was chosen out of 80 proposals from 28 states as the Jamboree's new home. Along with being the permanent home of the national Jamboree, whose theme is "Go Big, Get Wild," the Summit will serve as one of four high-adventure camps for the Scouts and will host the 2019 World Jamboree.

While Scouts will be roughing it outdoors, Hartley said walking won't be that rough. It's 1.5 miles from the furthest tent to the center of activity at the Summit, compared to 3 miles at Fort A.P. Hill.

Even the short, casual stroll isn't meant to be boring. A 786-foot suspension bridge connecting two of the Summit's six base camps to one of the outdoor activity centers has catwalks on either side.

The Summit's offerings are numerous. There are simple activities such as fishing on four different lakes. There's also the chance to get even wetter with whitewater rafting trips and learning to scuba dive and kayak in the Summit's Olympic-sized pools.

Among the bigger, more extreme venues, there are 50 mountain bike trails. The 11 BMX tracks and jumps total the size of about five football fields. A paved skateboard park was built by the same team that designed venues for the Summer X Games, and it includes a bowl, a vertical ramp, street-style combinations and a foam pit for Scouts to try out new tricks.

"This is the exact opposite of 'no skateboards or roller blades allowed,'" Hartley said.

Some of the venue designs fit in with the BSA's motto of building Scouts' confidence because they enable the youngsters to choose what fits their skill levels. Venues at Fort A.P. Hill addressed only the average skill set.

"Those are very different approaches to what we've done here that clearly is going to excite kids and provide opportunities that we've never had before," McCarthy said.

The planning includes incorporating safety procedures into staff training and venue oversight. Scout leaders want to be careful that exercise doesn't become exhaustion or worse.

In 2005, four adult Scout leaders were killed in an electrical accident on the opening day of the Jamboree. In the four days of intense heat that followed, more than 300 Scouts and visitors fell ill. In 1997, a Scout was killed at the Jamboree after the Army Humvee he was driving overturned.

Seems...I have to seriously consider being a Scout Leader.....though I have an issue against not letting the "obese" scouts go. I would actually train my little "turds" in hiking to condition themselves for this event. I would seriously argue in their favor. I see the fault at the Scout Leaders for knowing about the event and not prepping their scouts for the event.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/15/ready-set-exercise-boy-scout-jamboree-takes-health-conscious-turn-at-new-wva/?intcmp=trending#ixzz2Z9Bs1NeP

**hotsauceman1**

Scouts, Excluding people since 1920.
Y'know, I was considered morbidly obese by my scout leader, yet I could ride my bike, hike and run just like others. The only problem I ever had was swimming.

**Frazzled**

Mmm...its a secret plot to weed out the uncommitteds!

Sounds like fun actually.

**SilverMK2**

I don't know what I've been told, I can't see my scouting badges for my fatty folds!

It is sensible to ensure that those scouts who would suffer extreme physical difficulty at a physically active and demanding centre are prevented from going. I would, if I were a child of that kind of size who was into scouting, consider it a goal to aim for.

**Jihadin**

The word "Obese" no longer exist in my "book of words". If the military considers you obese it does not get you out of deployments. Yet the military is big on being physically fit so you have no issues health wise getting deployed to combat zone....but regs are regs and I cannot go against regs .....I prefer the word "heavy"

**hotsauceman1**

3 mile hike? Jesus I did a 5-6 mile hike in sophmore year for a school trip. Y'know what I got at the end of it? A small burrito. These people grossly underestimate heavy people, some can be just as fit.

**motyak**

body mass index

Why? Why do people keep using this as a measure of fitness? It is just so very, very off and poorly implemented that it should have no purpose in anything related to judging health. As it stands, I'd have to provide 'additional medical information' or what have you. So would the rest of my forward pack, yet we are one of the fittest in our division and would have no trouble with 3 miles (which is what, 5km or something I think. That's a really short run, I mean I'm doing a 20km run in 30 days). They really need to use something else as a measure for fitness.

**kronk**

First they excluded the foreign kids, and I said nothing.

Then they excluded the gay kids, and I said nothing.

Then they excluded the kids with the moms the make the best cake, and we rioted!!! Burn them!

**hotsauceman1**

motyak wrote:
body mass index

Why? Why do people keep using this as a measure of fitness? It is just so very, very off and poorly implemented that it should have no purpose in anything related to judging health. As it stands, I'd have to provide 'additional medical information' or what have you. So would the rest of my forward pack, yet we are one of the fittest in our division and would have no trouble with 3 miles (which is what, 5km or something I think. That's a really short run, I mean I'm doing a 20km run in 30 days). They really need to use something else as a measure for fitness.

Because thinking is hard.

**Jihadin**

Well there's three ways to measure BMI that I know of
1. Measuring tape, cloth, one each
2. Metal Calipers
3. Tank submersion

I've a feeling their using the measuring tape. Also have a feeling their measuring with shirts on. I also have a feeling their measuring just the abs....why do I have the feeling they really lost it if their using US ARMY Height and Weight standards....

**Ensis Ferrae**

Jihadin wrote:
Well there's three ways to measure BMI that I know of
1. Measuring tape, cloth, one each
2. Metal Calipers
3. Tank submersion

I've a feeling their using the measuring tape. Also have a feeling their measuring with shirts on. I also have a feeling their measuring just the abs....why do I have the feeling they really lost it if their using US ARMY Height and Weight standards....

That's a measure to get body fat (trust me, I get taped enough

)

BMI, IIRC, is simply the ratio of height versus what the scale says. And Motyak has the right of it. NFL linemen have ridiculously high BMI, due to being 350+ pounds. I'm sure Samu Manoa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samu_Manoa has a very high BMI, but is also one of the starting 15 loose forwards for the USA Eagles rugby team. (the wiki article goes Kg and Stones, but in the recent USA v. Ireland test, they listed him at 287 lbs.)

**CptJake**

I was an Army ROTC instructor at a university 1999-2001. Some of my duties included being the primary instructor for the MS1s (typically freshmen) and MS2s (typically sophomores).

The University and ROTC department allowed anyone to sign up for MS1 and MS2 classes, and in fact the University gave the students some PE credit for the MS1 course.

I was NOT allowed to mandate non-contracted cadets participate in PT, though part of my grading criteria was supposed to be an Army APFT (which I ended up having to use as extra credit).

On year in particular I had a group of MS1 cadets that was in very, very poor shape. This included a female who at 5'4" weighed over 280 and a male who at 5'8" was about the same weight. Neither could do a single push up or sit up. I tried very hard to be inclusive and to have all the cadets participate in what they wanted to, BUT there are somethings, which for safety reasons I was very much against allowing some of the cadets to do.

Each semester we took the cadets off campus for a three day 'field training exercise' which would include some tactics, land navigation, standard obstacle course, rappelling on cliffs, and other events. It cost tax payer money for each cadet to go (we had to transport, feed, clothe and house them). The real goal was to prepare the contracted cadets for a leadership evaluation camp they go to after their junior year and to prepare the contracted cadets to be commissioned as second lieutenants in the Army. My sons were at the age that these cadets were potentially going to be my kids' platoon leaders and company commanders, I took this pretty seriously.

Well, the two cadets I mentioned above (and a few similar ones) wanted to come on the FTX. I was told they WOULD be allowed to, and would be encouraged to participate in everything.

The poor girl was encouraged and helped by her squad to climb up some obstacle from which she would have to use a one rope bridge to descend.

Number 8, the inverted rope descent.

I was a safety on a more dangerous obstacle about 100m away and relied on a senior cadet to be safety on that one (it had a rope cargo net to catch anyone that may fall off the rope). I heard cheering over at that obstacle as this poor girl's squad encouraged her to climb up (which she was CLEARLY not comfortable doing). I froze my obstacle and hauled ass over there in just enough time to see this poor girl try to pull herself onto the rope bridge, and immediately have what little upper body strength she possessed give out. She fell from the absolute highest point she could, landed face first in the cargo net, bounced, and landed again, then rolled to the low point. It took myself and 4 strong guys to get her out of it. Except for a nasty net shaped rope burn on her face she thankfully had no injuries.

We had a talk about understanding physical limitations and not allowing others to coerce her into attempting something dangerous she did not feel she could handle. I then had a not so friendly discussion with her squad leader (who very much failed his leadership eval for the day) about understanding his troops and ensuring no one got hurt over something stupid.

The girl had a lot of heart, and was a great kid, but had no business being there.

The next day on the cliffs reiterated that.

I again was TOLD every cadet MUST rappel. That really was a bad idea and we were lucky no one got hurt. I was the gateway and ran the 15 ft rappel point. Everyone had to go off it successfully 3 times before I passed them onto the 60 and 90ft cliffs. I very much ensured no one passed my position that I did not feel could handle it.

My (very long winded) point is that when it comes to physical activity, we are all not equal. Sometimes the smart thing to do is say 'No, you cannot do this, it is not safe for you and poses risks for others'. If the Boy Scouts could legitimately make that claim, and had clear valid standards for who could and could not participate, and helped scouts work to achieve those standards ahead of time, I have no problem with it. I would hope they worked hard to not ostracize kids that did not meet the standard, but standards should exist for a reason. I have personally seen what happens when they are not enforced, even when the intent/desire was good, the results often are not.

**Jihadin**

Woops.....Can tell I'm within standards.....for a long while....thanks Ensis

**hotsauceman1**

I think the difference is CPTJake is that the scouts are flat out stating they cant, using an arbitrary measurment that has proven to not be the best.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Jihadin wrote:
Woops.....Can tell I'm within standards.....for a long while....thanks Ensis

No prob man.

When it comes to the Scouts, I would seriously hope that they change it to what the local Scout Leader says. Similar to CptJake, The local leader should know the abilities of his boys' (especially as so many aspects of the Jamboree are competitive?), and know from previous outings and exercises what each boy can handle safely. My guess is that enough of the localized leadership was bad enough that the national organization felt the need to step in.

**CptJake**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think the difference is CPTJake is that the scouts are flat out stating they cant, using an arbitrary measurment that has proven to not be the best.

"Not the best" does not mean it is not a darned good indicator though.

CDC says:

Body Mass Index (BMI) is a number calculated from a person's weight and height. BMI provides a reliable indicator of body fatness for most people and is used to screen for weight categories that may lead to health problems.

If the CDC thinks it works, why should the Boy Scouts not use it?

Here is the BMI chart for male kids 2-20:

Note that red is considered obese, and that the chart ONLY goes to 35, the scouts disallow kids at 40. Frankly, I don't see that as unreasonable.

**Jihadin**

Whew...I'm 42....I'm off the chart....and don't you dare put up the extended age range card CPTJake

**Chongara**

You just never hear much in the way of good news about the scouts. Well the boy scouts anyway, the girl scouts seems to be a organization that's actually adding value to society.

**CptJake**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

When it comes to the Scouts, I would seriously hope that they change it to what the local Scout Leader says. .

You cannot do that for a variety of reasons. If you leave it to the local leaders, there is no standard. You risk leaders telling kids that should be able to go 'No!' or feeling bad for kids that should not go and allowing them. If one of those kids dies from heat stroke because the local troop leader was too weak to make the hard decision it would be a very bad thing. Having one quantifiable standard for the whole organization is a lot better for everyone.

And stuff like this is not new. There is no high school sports program that does not require a physical to clear kids to participate. When I wrestled the county or state folks used to come by and use the fat calipers on us at the beginning and the middle of the season to ensure a minimum fat content so that we could not cut weight to unhealthy levels.

As the CDC points out, BMI is a pretty darned good indicator, and is cheap and easy to calculate. The scouts allow kids from a certain range of obese to get cleared by a doctor. But when you hit that 40 BMI, they say it just isn't safe for you to participate.

**motyak**

It may be an alright indicator for regular people CptJake, but once you get into people playing sport even semi-seriously it really takes a dive in usefulness, and instead becomes a joke of a system.

I guess scouts would fall into regular people though, wouldn't they, especially at younger ages when they haven't had the same time to develop the muscle and what not which throws it off for a lot of other people.

**dementedwombat**

Dang but I wish I had been a scout back in the day...of course back when I could have actually been one I was off the top of the BMI chart

I honestly don't see it as too unreasonable, I mean a BMI of 40 is pretty dang worrying (unless you're a serious bodybuilder or something).

Sure, you can probably do most stuff they have for you to do if you are at that weight, but it doesn't change the fact you'll be putting a lot more stress on yourself than someone who has a lower BMI (again assuming it's fat weight not muscle weight). I'd just look at it as an incentive for people to get in shape.

**CptJake**

motyak wrote:
It may be an alright indicator for regular people CptJake, but once you get into people playing sport even semi-seriously it really takes a dive in usefulness, and instead becomes a joke of a system.

I guess scouts would fall into regular people though, wouldn't they, especially at younger ages when they haven't had the same time to develop the muscle and what not which throws it off for a lot of other people.

Again, look at the chart. 40 is pretty damned high (not even ON that chart.) For kids into their teens, it is probably a good indicator. At my height (using the adult chart) I would have to add on more than 100 pounds to what I am currently at to hit a 40 BMI and I am in very mediocre shape right now. A kid 5ft tall would have to weigh 205 pounds to hit 40 BMI. There are not kids that are 5ft tall and 205 pounds that are healthy. There just aren't.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/14619727/Body-Mass-Index-Chart-For-Kids

shows the pounds to height for kids BMI. Remember, BSA says 40 is the too high number.

**Jihadin**

Now I'm questioning myself do I really want to be a Scout Leader.......what I get for thinking kids of today are like kids back then...

Jamboree like every four years right? .......

I just have to be like my role model....

With military mind set and a .45 I can explain everything in the simplest terms

**purplefood**

Kids are kids...
They rarely change. You might think they are brattier than they were but they aren't. The difference between kids when you were a kid and kids now is that you were a kid back then.

**whembly**

purplefood wrote:
Kids are kids...
They rarely change. You might think they are brattier than they were but they aren't. The difference between kids when you were a kid and kids now is that you were a kid back then.

Wait... I don't follow...

I'm still a kid.

**MrMoustaffa**

I'm actually working an audiohand for the main stage at this event. They're not joking about the health requirements. Its been very hot these past few days, and walking is pretty much mandatory unless you're important enough to warrant it (aka area directors and national guard water trucks) They actually wanted the stagehands to walk to and from the worksite (roughly 2 miles each way) after we had worked 12-18 hour days! And this isn't some sit on your butt desk job, this is very physically demanding, in the sun/rain/hellfire, and mentally draining. If I can work a hundred hours in a week and they still think I should be walking, the info in the OP doesn't surprise me one bit.

It also ties in with things like the swimming requirements each scouter must achieve in order to participate in activities like canoeing or kayaking. If you can't swim, you're not allowed past waist deep water, life jacket or no.

Simply put, the BMI restriction is a safeguard. It relieves strain on emergency services, allows them to provide more demanding and interesting activities, and probably puts their insurance provider at ease as well. It sucks, and I know they lost a lot of potential volunteers, but being physically fit is a main goal of scouting. Don't be surprised when you barred from events for not meeting requirements.

Plus I don't want any fatties breaking the zip line before I get a turn

(yes, I know some people can't help their weight that are unfairly excluded, but the BMI restriction is about as fair as they can get for a reference point. It provides a clear set of guidelines they can stick to to prevent people from getting upset over "favoritism")

**SilverMK2**

Im with cpt jake on this - this should be seen and treated as sensible restrictions and working towards requirements. Bmi is, for most people, a good indication. There are a few outliers buy if you are a 900 tonne weightlifter or something i think a brief covering letter should be more than enougj to get you through the gates.