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Anyone think these 3 new pieces of terrain will make a dent in the current meta? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440161a I am speaking mainly for regular 40k and not apocolypse as some of the terrain pieces come with rules for the standard warhammer 40k game.

Wall of Martyrs - Aquila Strongpoint
Wall of Martyrs - Firestorm Redoubt
Wall of Martyrs - Vengeance Weapons Battery

Thoughts?

The aquila strongpoint won't - It's written rules are for apocalypse only. In standard 40k it's a neutral AV13 bunker with no guns, so nobody will take it.

The Battle Cannon vengeance batteries look good to me - since they are blast weapons the BS2 is less of an inhibitor. I don't like the punisher cannon variant - short range, low BS, and an unimpressive Str/AP on the gun.

The wild card is the Firestorm Redoubt. i would have to see it in action - it's got usefulness in that it's AA (albeit BS2 twin linked) and a good firing point to shoot out of for models inside. The points cost is high, I'd almost spend another 50 points on a fortress of redemption with krakstorm missiles for the greater LOS blocking, 2 extra bunkers, and still 1 lascannon (that can be aimed). The Redoubt costs about half of the fortress of redemption in dollars though.

I can see how the Aquila one would be frowned upon in base 40k. The other ones I'd allow easily since they dont carry any destoryer weapons and AV15.

I may well be buying the battle cannon ones, stick them in your table half so half inch away from the center and then they have range LOS and table dominance.

Can these be assaulted? as they cannot be occuiped, or like other buildings cannot be assaulted if not occupied?

They offer a nice blast and range and high str for my daemons for quite cheap costs.

A friend of mine suggested that the Vengeance Weapons Batteries could be useful in a refused flank formation by sitting them on the other side of you army.
Cheap, durable, and if some one drops a melta squad or uses AT fire power at them, then its AT not directed at your own vehicles (my friend plays guard). If they leave it alone, then its constant harassment. Also acts as a small deterrent/threat for line breakers and are big enough to block LOS against a small barrage unit behind it.

Firestorm Redoubt (bunker with Dual Quad Lascannons)

I bought, and then tried out the new Firestorm Redoubt (bunker with Quad Lascannons) Its double the cost of a ADL w/ Autocannons.

Its BS2 twinlinked, heavy 2, Skyfire with Interceptor on a AV14 platform. It cannot be manually fired, and each gun must shoot at the closest unit (First it must target Fliers, or Flying MCs, if there are none in its 96" range, it can fire at the closest ground target), so they can fire at separate units.

It is not as small as it appears in the website, I placed an Entire CCS w/MoO on top of the center battlement, the Lascannons on the outer battlements, then hid 2 Entire PCS w/ Mortats behind it, and probably could have fit a 3rd, and placed another CCS with MoO and OotF inside. It became the center point of my army and each gun could take out a vendetta a turn. alot easier then with a normal old quad gun. (Math to follow) It greatly exapnds the CCS to everything within 12" of this monster, became a firebase for my mortars and Masters of Ordinance, and allowed my 2 platoons to recieve orders effectivelly and safely.

It was on par with a decked out LRMBT, better then a quad gun bastion, and reinforced my Infantry ground army against flyers.

1 Icarus Quadlinked lascannon

you have a 55% chance to hit with each shot

VS AV12

1.1 hits per gun (after rerolls etc) VS AV 12 = 50% chance to pen with a 16.67% chance to destroy an AV12 flier. it has a 66% chance to remove at least a HP with each hit.


VS AV 11

1.1 hits per gun, VS AV 11 = 66% chance to pen, and a 22% chance to destroy, and a 83% chance to remove an HP with each shot.

VS AV 10

1.1 hits per gun, VS AV 10 = 83% chance to pen, 27.6% chance to destroy, and a 100% chance to remove and HP with each shot.

I like it and plan on bringing it to the next tourny I go to. Even forcing a Flyer to jink allows you a turn of respite from its weapons, and it'll probably be off the board the next turn.

Wow! Sounds really nice actually. Are the rules for it just in the apocalypse expansion I am guessing?

The bad thing about the new forts (for me at least) is that you cannot choose your target and you have to fire them last in your shooting phase (right before morale checks).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wow! Sounds really nice actually. Are the rules for it just in the apocalypse expansion I am guessing?

All 40k.

 pretre wrote:
The bad thing about the new forts (for me at least) is that you cannot choose your target and you have to fire them last in your shooting phase (right before morale checks).

Yea that could be irritating with the canons but the AA from the firestorm could be invaluable to certain armies. If you draw someone with no fliers though I could see it not contributing.

Well, it is still 4 lascannons even with no flyers.

I was kind of grinning and bearing it until the fires last bit. If I need a flyer down, I can't just hope that the last thing to fire takes it down. I usually have a distinct order to my firing based on threat, etc so on. Firing last screws that up.

As a nid, a Redoubt with would be an excellent addition to the list. One thing severly lacking in our lists is skyfire and there is no interceptor. I want one for my foot swarm. Probably drop my flyrant for it to be honest, and use the extra points for more gribbly.

So let me get this straight...
For two Benjamin Franklins worth of points you get:
2 turrets that are heavy 2, twinlinked, skyfire BS2 that can shoot at seperate targets if the target priority is met (Flyer -> FMC -> Nearest enemy unit). Do you resolve 1 turret at a time or both shoot the same thing?

Yes and individually, as far as I can see.

So what does the other one do?

The other is an impassable building for 75 points with an automated punisher cannon. +10 points for Battle Cannon. You can take two in one Fort slot.

Point cost seems high, assuming you're looking at 2 S9 hits per turn against flyers. Good but not great when a quad gun can get almost 4 with BS5 for 50% cost.

 pretre wrote:
Well, it is still 4 lascannons even with no flyers.

I was kind of grinning and bearing it until the fires last bit. If I need a flyer down, I can't just hope that the last thing to fire takes it down. I usually have a distinct order to my firing based on threat, etc so on. Firing last screws that up.

This all day. I couldn't just live with the hope that BS2 is going to reliably take it down. Maybe if it costed a little less I would use it but I can't see it fititng into my lists. I might try out a proxy run with my space wolves since they have no real AA but never go against more than one flier at a time.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wow! Sounds really nice actually. Are the rules for it just in the apocalypse expansion I am guessing?

They come with rules for standard play. The apoc rules for them can only be found in the apoc book.

 minigun762 wrote:
Point cost seems high, assuming you're looking at 2 S9 hits per turn against flyers. Good but not great when a quad gun can get almost 4 with BS5 for 50% cost.

I would generally agree, but the problem with the quad gun is its almost useless vs AV12, sure you can get a 100% hit rate, but you only get a 16.6% pen rate with a 2.77% destroy rate, sure you could HP it to death, but even then you only have a 33% chance of getting a glance, so with 4 hits that nets you about 1.2 HP (which is 2x the hp rate of a single lasquad gun) but on the opposite side, a Icarus Quadlascannon thingamawhat has a 6x more of a chance t destroy outright.

And of course, the 2 most annoying fliers in the game (Vendetta and Heldrake) are AV12.

True, true.

The Quad Icarus mounts are strictly better for AA but you're paying a significant premium for that.

I guess it comes down to how desperate you are for straight AA firepower.

Unrelated, I'm liking the rumor that you can take two Vengeance platforms per army.

 minigun762 wrote:

Unrelated, I'm liking the rumor that you can take two Vengeance platforms per army.

That's not a rumor. That is the rule.

75 for the first vengeance battery
+10 for battle cannon
+75 for another vengeance battery

Really?
170 for a pair of immobile Leman Russ equivalents seems awesome.

 minigun762 wrote:
Really?
170 for a pair of immobile Leman Russ equivalents seems awesome.

Only problem being that they must target the closest with a horrible BS for scatter. enemy lands a drop pod near by, is forced to target, then scatters into your stuff .

They also fire last every turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But you can't glance them to death and you can place them up to the center line. Pretty amusing.

 Desubot wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Really?
170 for a pair of immobile Leman Russ equivalents seems awesome.

Only problem being that they must target the closest with a horrible BS for scatter. enemy lands a drop pod near by, is forced to target, then scatters into your stuff .

Yes, but they're cheaper than a Defiler with twice the firepower and much more durable.

Biggest drawback is losing quad gun for AA.

 minigun762 wrote:
Biggest drawback is losing quad gun for AA.

And you know, all those other drawbacks we listed.

 pretre wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Biggest drawback is losing quad gun for AA.

And you know, all those other drawbacks we listed.

Yes yes, I'm trying to be overly positive!

I don't see as much value keeping the Punishers. Too short of range for an immobile unit and you can't hurt the various AV12 flyers.

The punishers will be good against FMC and hordes, but not really worth it. Would have been great if you could man them.

 minigun762 wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Biggest drawback is losing quad gun for AA.

And you know, all those other drawbacks we listed.

Yes yes, I'm trying to be overly positive!

I don't see as much value keeping the Punishers. Too short of range for an immobile unit and you can't hurt the various AV12 flyers.

but, you can place them on the center line and shoot at things that get to close!

 minigun762 wrote:
True, true.

The Quad Icarus mounts are strictly better for AA but you're paying a significant premium for that.

I guess it comes down to how desperate you are for straight AA firepower.

Unrelated, I'm liking the rumor that you can take two Vengeance platforms per army.

Which is exactly why nids will love this thing. Sky fire AND interceptor.