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Well, this says it all.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/122874-board-game-kickstarter-cancelled-nothing-will-be-released-refunds-mi

Was bound to happen eventually.

I am very very sick of the kickstarter stuff. I'd like to start a kickstarter to form a posse of clowns, potentially insane, to hunt down other kickstarters.

 Frazzled wrote:
I am very very sick of the kickstarter stuff. I'd like to start a kickstarter to form a posse of clowns, potentially insane, to hunt down other kickstarters.

Frazzled is a Juggalo?

 pretre wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I am very very sick of the kickstarter stuff. I'd like to start a kickstarter to form a posse of clowns, potentially insane, to hunt down other kickstarters.

Frazzled is a Juggalo?

Makes about as much sense as anything else here in OT Dakka.

I'm actually pretty impressed that this happens as infrequently as it does. It speaks to kickstarter's ability to review the projects before they go up that this is as rare as it is.

 Frazzled wrote:
I am very very sick of the kickstarter stuff. I'd like to start a kickstarter to form a posse of clowns, potentially insane, to hunt down other kickstarters.

You don't need a kickstarter, just promise white t-shirts, face paint and Faygo root beer.

Excellent. As Bob the Accountant famously said: "Lets wear their guts for garters boyos!"

Whelp gotta be careful with what cards you play I suppose.

Unlike most penny-ante Kickstarters that bomb (I've backed a couple so far), it looks like the backers on this one are going to the Oregon Consumer board to try to nail the creator. Good for them.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I am very very sick of the kickstarter stuff. I'd like to start a kickstarter to form a posse of clowns, potentially insane, to hunt down other kickstarters.

You don't need a kickstarter, just promise white t-shirts, face paint and Faygo root beer.

Don't forget the delicate balance of being devoutly Christian while protesting otherwise a little too strongly.

SavageRobby wrote:

Unlike most penny-ante Kickstarters that bomb (I've backed a couple so far), it looks like the backers on this one are going to the Oregon Consumer board to try to nail the creator. Good for them.

How is that good for them? The kickstarter disclaimer CLEARLY states that you are not entitled to anything when you back a project.

 Soladrin wrote:

SavageRobby wrote:

Unlike most penny-ante Kickstarters that bomb (I've backed a couple so far), it looks like the backers on this one are going to the Oregon Consumer board to try to nail the creator. Good for them.

How is that good for them? The kickstarter disclaimer CLEARLY states that you are not entitled to anything when you back a project.

I think all the Kickstarter disclaimer really covers is Kickstarter itself. They are not responsible if an item you backed fails and they will not assist you in any recovery efforts.

I don't think it really covers any actions available directly between backers and creator.

IANAL

I think d-usa has it. Kickstarter themselves are not going to act as a bludgeon or attack dog for backers to get their recompense if someone tries to cut and run. They just provide the 'market' (as it were) for people to propose their projects.

Honestly, between their own services and the eagle eyes of the users nitpicking every last corner of a project, sneaking a big one past them seems pretty difficult. Obviously there have been some failures along the way, but most of the really big projects with problems generally seem to be of the "massive delays" variety.

Personally, I treat Kickstarters I wish to back in 2 ways;

The First: ones I don't feel super passionate about, but will pitch $1-10 just to help out. If I get something for this (name on a thank you list, personalized email, couple of dice, whatever), that's great, but I don't really pay attention to them once they're funded. I'm just contributing a little disposable income to help a project someone is passionate about get off the ground.

The Second: one I am super passionate about, which get put through the third degree. I look into who is involved, their reputation, what other projects they've completed, what issues they've had over the years, etc.

Of the 5 I've contributed significant money to, 1 is being delivered in part tomorrow (Shadowrun digital download, physical rewards are reportedly being shipped in August), which is a good 7 months late, but the team has made efforts to keep me informed and I have faith they'll deliver.

1 has been significantly delayed (some magnetic terrain stuff, was supposed to be February, might be August/September at this rate, but that's a guess).

And 3 are due later this year (Sept/Oct/Dec); a Wyrd RPG, Dwarven Forge's terrain, and the Robotech miniatures game. I'm cautiously optimistic about 1 and 3, but DF seems to be on top of their game, with recent updates indicating they're really plowing through things.

Basically, it's a gamble. It's not impossible that a backer or group could take a campaign to task for utterly failing to live up to their end of the bargain, but following the above guideline has covered me pretty well so far. I think there are issues with how some people are using it, and that those and a really spectacular flop/burn will change how the community sees, uses and participates in KS campaigns, but for now, things seem to be settling into a bit of a routine.

It'll be very interesting to see how this all shakes out in the coming years.

From the comments on that link:

Reading Erik's update and a couple supposed email replies from him in the comments, it sounds like:

- The game was never printed
- The figures were never created
- The t-shirts were never printed

Issues of liability, legality and everything else aside; What did Erik spend $122,000 on? Other than his living expenses (quit his job), moving to Portland, and setting himself up a new company, nothing at all seems to have been produced.

How can you spend 122K and produce nothing?

From the actual KS update, the first lines:

This is not an easy update to write.

The short version: The project is over, the game is canceled.

The game is cancelled, but he still paid for his move and living expenses for many months.

I agree that Kickstarter's policy basically means they will do nothing, ever, to refund backers in the case of a campaign not delivering. But if they make it too much of a free-for-all, the government will step in to regulate it.

Hence, their adding a "risks and challenges" section to the front page... trying to cover themselves and show that they demonstrated some risk. That won't be enough, honestly, if more campaigns end up like this.

122K and nothing produced... wow. I don't know what else you would call a scam, if not that

 Soladrin wrote:

SavageRobby wrote:

Unlike most penny-ante Kickstarters that bomb (I've backed a couple so far), it looks like the backers on this one are going to the Oregon Consumer board to try to nail the creator. Good for them.

How is that good for them? The kickstarter disclaimer CLEARLY states that you are not entitled to anything when you back a project.

Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Thanks. reds8n Read much? http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

The important stuff:

"By backing or creating a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you agree to be bound by this entire Agreement, including the following terms:

...

Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill."


THAT'S what the Kickstarter Terms of Use says, not some mamby-pamby idiotic nonsense about not being entitled to what you paid for. Project creators who take money and then fail to produce rewards are lowlife scum or abject project management morons (and some, like Mike Nystul, happen to be both). Some very few have legitimate excuses, but all should be held accountable for fulfilling their responsibilities to their backers.

And the whole "it's a risky venture" "you're an investor" is total hogwash, at least in the games/RPG/miniatures end of the kickstarter pool. There are some very cool projects where you really are a patron investing in a project that is new, unproven and genuinely risky, but games ain't one. If a project creator treats KS like a pre-order system, they best fulfill those orders.

Well, I stand corrected.

That said, you are not an invester, you are a donator. You don't get any shares, you don't carry risks apart from losing your initial investment. Anyone treating this as an investment site is doing it wrong.

Just sue his butt. End of the story.

SavageRobby wrote:
. Read much? http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

The important stuff:

"By backing or creating a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you agree to be bound by this entire Agreement, including the following terms:

...

Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill."


THAT'S what the Kickstarter Terms of Use says, not some mamby-pamby idiotic nonsense about not being entitled to what you paid for. Project creators who take money and then fail to produce rewards are lowlife scum or abject project management morons (and some, like Mike Nystul, happen to be both). Some very few have legitimate excuses, but all should be held accountable for fulfilling their responsibilities to their backers.

While the latter part of your post is accurate, the former is missing the angle. As others have said, Kickstarter has that language in there to immunize Kickstarter, not to protect the people who back projects. There are no teeth in that statement; there are numerous mechanisms Kickstarter could set up to better protect the people who back projects from failure and they haven't availed themselves of any of them because it's not in Kickstarter's best interest to do so. Kickstarter's best interests are making projects as big as humanly possible, taking their 5%, and then handing it off and washing their hands of it. And there isn't really a problem with this, ultimately - they only provide a venue for trade, and it's on you to determine if your money is likely to see the return you're hoping your pledge will get you.

In the event of a failed project, I think the only reasonable recourse is probably small claims court, and getting a judgement and then lien on the project creators home or what have you.

Ouze, I agree. Which is why I posted that I'm glad the backers are trying to nail the _Creator_.

Kickstarter (nor Amazon) do their best to shield themselves from responsibility for bad projects. But they make it absolutely clear that project creators are on the hook - they just don't provide any mechanism to assist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soladrin wrote:
Well, I stand corrected.

That said, you are not an invester, you are a donator. You don't get any shares, you don't carry risks apart from losing your initial investment. Anyone treating this as an investment site is doing it wrong.

Sorry, I was probably a little hostile there. I'm a little passionate about this, and have this discussion more than once with ... Less reasonable folks. :-)

I agree - you're not an investor. I don't agree about a donator - that connotes an altruistic relationship. Most game KS projects treat their projects like preorders, and you're just a normal shop customer. Some projects you're truly a patron/donator, but those seem to be rare (and definitely not game projects).

Interesting that the backers are now using the kickstarter page (and apparently have been for some time, leading to this revelation by the creator that he really is doing nothing) to mobilize their actions against him. Many are filing with IC3, and I think someone taking over 100K and delivering nothing is big enough to garner the attention of authorities.

Also interesting, is that it is the publisher only who ran the campaign and made off with the money. The game creators now have the rights to the game back, and plan to release a print-and-play version. Here's their quotes from the comments of the latest update:

Keith Baker wrote:Yesterday, Erik Chevalier of the Forking Path announced that he has cancelled the Kickstarter to produce The Doom That Came To Atlantic City, a board game designed by Lee Moyer and Keith Baker, which is to say, me. When Lee and I first heard this news from Erik, it came as a shock. We’ve been working on this game for over a decade. In 2011 we had it ready to go to the printer with Z-Man Games, until a change in ownership dropped it from production. Based on the information we’d been receiving from the Forking Path we believed that the game was in production. It’s a personal and financial blow to both of us, but what concerns Lee and I is that people who believed in our work and put their faith in this Kickstarter have been let down.

First of all, I would like to make one thing crystal clear. Lee Moyer and Keith Baker are not part of the Forking Path. Neither one of us received any of the funds raised by the Kickstarter or presales. I haven’t received any form of payment for this game. Lee and I were not involved in the decisions that brought about the end of this project, and we were misinformed about its progress and the state of the game.

As a designer, I want the ideas I come up with to bring people joy—not frustration, disappointment and anger. Once I sign a contract granting a company the rights to produce one of my games, I am putting my faith in that company and trusting that it will carry out production and delivery in a professional and ethical manner. I’ve worked with Atlas Games, Wizards of the Coast, Steve Jackson Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Pelgrane Press, and many more, and I’ve never been let down until now. Lee and I don’t know exactly how the money was spent, why the backers were misled, what challenges were faced or what drove the decisions that led to the cancellation of the game. Not only did we not make any money from the game, we have actually lost money; as soon as we learned the true state of affairs, we engaged a lawyer to compel The Forking Path to come forward to the backers and to honor its pledge to issue refunds.

With that said, all that really matters to Lee and I is that our idea has led to frustration and anger instead of bringing happiness. We can’t change the past. We can’t produce the game as presented in the Kickstarter on our own. But under the terms of the contract the rights to the art and design are back in our hands, and we can at least share those. Lee and I will be producing a print-and-play version of the game as quickly as possible, and getting that to backers at no cost. You’ll have to use your own cardstock and paper, and we can’t produce the amazing miniatures sculpted by Paul Komoda. But we can share our ideas and our work, and we hope that you will enjoy it.

There is one snag: neither Lee or I have access to the list of backers and their email addresses. We don’t even know who you are, and we have no way to thank you directly. If you backed Doom, please contact me through my website Keith-Baker.com. If you know anyone who backed it, please direct them here.

This is not the end of the road we thought we were on. Neither Lee nor I know how things reached this point, and when I look at the images from the manufacturer that show so clearly that the game could have been made, it breaks my heart. Lee and I will do our best to get you the game in print-and-play form as soon as possible. It’s not what we expected or planned on, but we at least hope that you will finally be able to get some enjoyment from the game we’ve worked on for all these years.

Sincerely,
Keith Baker

Keith Baker wrote:I wanted to let everyone know that The Forking Path has provided Lee and I with the list of backers, and we will contact you when there is news about the print-and-play version.

 Frazzled wrote:
I am very very sick of the kickstarter stuff. I'd like to start a kickstarter to form a posse of clowns, potentially insane, to hunt down other kickstarters.

I don't know about you guys but I'd fund this.

 Forar wrote:
And 3 are due later this year (Sept/Oct/Dec); a Wyrd RPG, Dwarven Forge's terrain, and the Robotech miniatures game. I'm cautiously optimistic about 1 and 3, but DF seems to be on top of their game, with recent updates indicating they're really plowing through things.

I'm not even cautiously optimistic about Wyrd's RPG at this point, Wyrd will deliver their product, it just might be late, and it might not be everything that I expected . I have no idea where they are at all with their kickstarter as I've not had much incentive to look at the playtest forums since I would not be allowed to playtest if I have to sign the standard Wyrd NDA. At this point though, based on what time of year it is, how they handled reward fulfillment of their first kickstarter, and the fact that they're busy with a 3rd fething kickstarter. I'll just be surprised when the box of stuff winds up on my porch. This is part of the reason why I no longer support a company's kickstarter when they still have unfulfilled stuff from a previous kickstarter I've backed. EBO is the biggest reason WHY I do this, I backed EBO on good faith, Wyrd was a company I trusted (and for the most part still do), but when I waited until basically EBO's retail release to get my copy of the game I was a little miffed. I also have complaints about some of the stretch goal rewards that I got, namely the Caesar plushie (note I didn't back it for this, it just makes me think that they could have done something else, something better), the fate deck, and the poster. The project being delayed didn't make me feel too good, but I was willing to go along with it, as I've had 2 other projects get delayed, and assumed this was natural with Kickstarter. Through the Breach I backed because... MALIFAUX RPG! and was pretty sure I'd get a product I will enjoy. I just think that communication has been lacking on Through the Breach, unless you are active on the playtest forums. Hell, I only just found out that the Through the Breach stuff won't be available at GenCon (despite what ericj has said on the Wyrd forums), unless that's change and the information is just hard to find.

Out of the 9 kickstarters I've backed, I'm still waiting on 5 of them, Endless: Fantasy Tactics, Through the Breach, Tablescapes, Deadzone, and Flying Assault Butts. Of those 5, I get a new email from Mantic about once every 5 to 10 days, every twenty days or so for Tablescapes, about once a month fro Flying Assault butts (Ouze is a little late on this ), once a month on actual kickstarter updates for Endless, but I get a new rulebook update every 2 weeks or so. Through the Breach went three months without an update, and in the past 3 weeks I've gotten 2, and only 1 of them has really been of any importance. Now out of the kickstarters I've backed, Endless and Through the Breach are the ones I'm most excited for (though my excitement for Wyrd has dropped off since the beginning of July), and they're also the two I've spent the most money on, as those 2 kickstarters are almost equal (10 dollars short) of all of the other 7 kickstarters combined.

Kickstarter is in a very weird place at the moment with the gaming community because it's not really doing what it set out to do. Originally (and in other areas), KS was meant for businesses to release something they might not have the funds to do (Reaper Bones) or for startups to create a product that people might want, but not enough people want it to make it profitable (your average gaming kickstarter). The problem is that we see plenty of kickstarters pop up here on Dakka, and many of them are from establish companies that have a solid business already, and the KS is more of a pre-order system (I'm looking at your Mantic and CMON ). But we as gamers go rabid for things that pique our interest, which is why 6 of the top 10 kickstarters are Gaming or Video Games, but this rabid desire puts pressure on the developers to get the product out on time and at the cost expected. Look at the Warmachine KS thread here on Dakka. There are a few posts from people talking about the lack of physical rewards from the kickstarter, because every cent they raise that goes towards a new mini, or a mousepad, or a I actually bought Level 7 t-shirt is another cent that doesn't go towards the development of the game. So if we attack a product that interests us (like the game in the OP kind of looks like Cthulhu Monopoly) we're actually making it harder for the developer to meet the stretch goals established by the campaign. So tend to gravitate to really cool ideas (Kingdom Death: Monster), or we established companies and the little guy that has a solid product but can't afford for it to blow up. I completely agree it's a gamble, but it seems we here in the gaming community have decided to hedge our bets and only go for "sure things" most of the time.

A little something from the KS comments page.

Mighty Rabbit Studios about 22 hours ago
Erik, I want to make it very clear that I have absolutely nothing against you as a person. You're still one of the coolest guys I've worked with, and I standby my assessment that you're a killer salesman (and the success of your fundraising efforts proves that much) - but I believe your backers have a right to know that this isn't the first time this has happened.
Erik was a part of Joystick Labs - an independent game development incubator in Durham, NC - which formed five companies (mine included). Erik formed a company called Inari, Inc. and got $20,000 in seed funding to build a social pinball game. By the end of six months, the money was gone and there was nothing to show for it. Erik's investors for Inari got completely burned. From what we saw, most of the money went towards buying stuff on Amazon.
I backed this project with the hopes that Joystick Labs was just a learning experience, getting a board game printed seemed substantially easier than getting a video game made. I'm guessing that was a false assumption. Thankfully, I only backed at the T-Shirt level - I'm fine writing off a $25 loss. I really feel bad for the hundreds of backers who pledged $75 or more. I really hope you can get their money back, Erik.

Maybe Erik is an alias of Daniel Mandelbrot.

Caveat Emptor.

Also the board for game looks suspiciously like a monopoly board. If you pass go do you not get devoured by cthuluesque demons?

 Mr. Burning wrote:
A little something from the KS comments page.

Mighty Rabbit Studios about 22 hours ago
Erik, I want to make it very clear that I have absolutely nothing against you as a person. You're still one of the coolest guys I've worked with, and I standby my assessment that you're a killer salesman (and the success of your fundraising efforts proves that much) - but I believe your backers have a right to know that this isn't the first time this has happened.
Erik was a part of Joystick Labs - an independent game development incubator in Durham, NC - which formed five companies (mine included). Erik formed a company called Inari, Inc. and got $20,000 in seed funding to build a social pinball game. By the end of six months, the money was gone and there was nothing to show for it. Erik's investors for Inari got completely burned. From what we saw, most of the money went towards buying stuff on Amazon.
I backed this project with the hopes that Joystick Labs was just a learning experience, getting a board game printed seemed substantially easier than getting a video game made. I'm guessing that was a false assumption. Thankfully, I only backed at the T-Shirt level - I'm fine writing off a $25 loss. I really feel bad for the hundreds of backers who pledged $75 or more. I really hope you can get their money back, Erik.

Maybe Erik is an alias of Daniel Mandelbrot.

Caveat Emptor.

Also the board for game looks suspiciously like a monopoly board. If you pass go do you not get devoured by cthuluesque demons?

Maybe that altruistic poster should have posted his previous experiences with this person BEFORE the KS was over?

KS is largely based on confidence. Him knowing that the owner of the KS had a shady background and despite that not only allowed him to deceive a few thousand people but also got deceived himself AGAIN is a bit ridiculous...

SavageRobby wrote:

Ouze, I agree. Which is why I posted that I'm glad the backers are trying to nail the _Creator_.

Kickstarter (nor Amazon) do their best to shield themselves from responsibility for bad projects. But they make it absolutely clear that project creators are on the hook - they just don't provide any mechanism to assist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soladrin wrote:
Well, I stand corrected.

That said, you are not an invester, you are a donator. You don't get any shares, you don't carry risks apart from losing your initial investment. Anyone treating this as an investment site is doing it wrong.

Sorry, I was probably a little hostile there. I'm a little passionate about this, and have this discussion more than once with ... Less reasonable folks. :-)

I agree - you're not an investor. I don't agree about a donator - that connotes an altruistic relationship. Most game KS projects treat their projects like preorders, and you're just a normal shop customer. Some projects you're truly a patron/donator, but those seem to be rare (and definitely not game projects).

Well, that's how it's used, but the rules and system in place is mainly set up to support projects with donations, the rewards are always optional, they are incentives to get people to donate.

I am a backer for this project.

The problem was no one knew Erik Chevalier was involved. Only Keith Baker, Paul Komoda, and Lee Moyer are listed. I backed based on Keith's name and the fact that casting a few pewter minis should be a cakewalk. Looking at all three of those guys, and the info provided, things looked just about as legit as a kickstarter can be.

The other problem is that yes, it was a Monopoly parody. Chevalier claimed to have been C&D'd by Habro. Claimed, but we have no proof of course. That was when things got really bad with the non-update updates.

Back on October 31, 2012 I wrote this here on Dakka in response to a "How to do a Crowdfund" thread, as a sort of warning of what not to do...

 Gymnogyps wrote:

...Another was C&D'd by Hasbro (a Cthulhu themed monopoly-inspired game). Might as well kiss that one good bye. No updates for a while now.

So this one is a bust. Saw it coming a mile off. But what can any of us do to protect ourselves from this sort of thing and still use crowdfunding?

The major problem I'm seeing now is that no one actually really knows what kickstarter is. There is no real category it fits into for laws and current regulations. People think they know, but they don't, such as all the people saying, "Quit yer bitchin, you knew it could fail" in the comments of this kickstarter. But that's not true, and not how anything on kickstarter is stated. Individual backers can go the civil route, but kickstarter counts on the fact that it is not worth it to pursue, at least according to some quotes attributed to one of their board members.

http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/6/27/3099051/backers-rights-what-kickstarter-funders-can-expect-when-they-pledge

http://kotaku.com/5921739/kickstarter-doesnt-really-care-if-you-get-scammed-out-of-25

Kickstarter has worded everything so that they have no liability or obligation once the money changes hands. The terms of use makes it so the creator can string backers along forever and never deliver anything.

Kickstarter is not a store, so you can't use consumer protections for fraud.

Kickstarter is not an investment, so there are none of the protections for fraudulent investments.

Kickstarter is not a charity, so there is no protection there, either.

Yeah, you use a credit card, but you'll never be able to do a chargeback because you won't know its not delivering until well after the chargeback window is expired.

The SEC is supposed to be writing regs for crowdfunding based on the JOBS act, but it is held up. My representatives in Congress will be hearing from me on that. Regs need to be in place to prevent fraud. The system is set up so that consumers have zero power and zero recourse after money changes hands.

The other major problem is what I think we have here. There is a reason when you hire someone to work for you, you DO NOT pay them 100% up front. You pay enough to start, with the rest due on receipt. Why is that? So they don't run away with the money. And so they have an incentive to complete the work.

Kickstarter has zero, ZERO accountability for incompetent or unscrupulous projects. And there is zero recourse for someone stringing it on forever then delivering nothing, or significantly under-delivering on promises.

Edit - and functionally, there is zero ability to make a creator deliver. Ever. All backers can do is beg for info, or sue. And lawsuits aren't feasible. The system is completely ripe for abuse, which I think we saw here.

What kickstarter "is" is the renaissance art sponsor system brought back to life. If the Medecis sponsored someone and they didn't paint, they were out of luck, but that painter's career was over too.

Well yeah, just look at the damage double-fine is currently taking from completely overshooting their budget.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
What kickstarter "is" is the renaissance art sponsor system brought back to life. If the Medecis sponsored someone and they didn't paint, they were out of luck, but that painter's career was over too.

That's what I thought, too. But its not. The Medicis didn't live in the internet age, where everything can be vaporware. They could and did ensure their artists were physically present in the city. They offered continuing patronage for good work, and required actual examples of work to demonstrate ability of the artist.

Kickstarter is not that in any way, shape or form. Kickstarter relies on one pretty powerpoint / video presentation, and all money is provided up front to the creator.

If the Medicis sponsored someone, who lived on their dime, but who never delivered... well, that artist would have to go find real work when his stipend was pulled. Or the Medicis could kneecap him. And the Medicis could talk to all the other rich families to ensure the scammer didn't pull it on anyone else.

My whole point is that backers can't do any of that for a flaky artist in the kickstarter system. There are ZERO repercussions for someone to do what this guy did.

All a scammer has to do on kickstarter is hide behind other names. Or do a one-and-done. Doesn't help those backers who got taken.

edit to add - The difference, fundamentally, in the patronage system the patron holds all the power and the money. With kickstarter, the creator gets all the money and holds all the power of what to do with it. That is a broken system.

 Gymnogyps wrote:

The problem was no one knew Erik Chevalier was involved. Only Keith Baker, Paul Komoda, and Lee Moyer are listed. I backed based on Keith's name and the fact that casting a few pewter minis should be a cakewalk. Looking at all three of those guys, and the info provided, things looked just about as legit as a kickstarter can be.

What do you mean? His name is on the very first update on the very first day of the KS...